Bistros in Paris: Merged topics

[Steve Plotnicki]

Well this is what I had in mind. But I think there was an earlier article on this subject many years ago when the phenomenon first hit. I can't remember what magazine it was in. I want to say Gault Millau but I could be wrong. I can remember a group picture of about 15 chefs who had opened this type of restaurant.

I always thought the marketplace could use an in depth analysis of what they cook in these places in the form of a cookbook that included their better recipes. But I guess the phenomenon never caught on in a big enough way to provoke a publisher into doing it.

Ultimately the best that could come from this movement is a "moderne bistro cuisine" that is as identifiable as traditional bistro cuisine. Why that never happened is probably a good subject for discussion. Although I have to admit that my own experience with this category is limited to only eating in a few of the places so I would need to go to France for 3 or 7 weeks and do lots of taste testing .

[lizziee]

Steve,

I think you are thinking of the same article. There was a group picture of 10 young turks in Gourmet 2001.

"Ultimately the best that could come from this movement is a "moderne bistro cuisine" that is as identifiable as traditional bistro cuisine. Why that never happened is probably a good subject for discussion."

Steve, I don't understand. It seems to me, they are talking about what you were discussing about Blue Hill?

[lizziee]

Bux,

You are right that I didn't mention Frechon. His remark: " Last week, I served roast lamb, and several people asked me if they could have it with white beans .... at the Bristol!" he says, with a kind of wonder. Then he adds, "The fact is that the old rules about what is haute cuisine and what is not are falling apart."

[grahamtigg]

On the books front there's Qu'est-ce qu'on mange ce soir ? by Yves Camdeborde, Thierry Faucher (L'Os à Moelle), Thierry Breton, Rodolphe Paquin (Le repaire de Cartouche). It's 100 or so plan ahead meals for the busy Parisian cook, but some of the recipes are from their restaurants. It's in French of course.

See http://www.amazon.fr/exec/obidos/ASIN/2830...8574971-6050644

[Steve Plotnicki]

Liz - While there are restaurants who practice a cuisine I might describe as "bistro moderne," I think there isn't a defined term that is universally understood. Just look at how Marcus needed to probe what I meant. So what I was saying in my last post is that I wish there was a universally recognized cuisine called bistro moderne with dishes that were as famous as cassoulet and pot au feu.

[cabrales]

I've only eaten at L'Astrance and La Regelade. I wonder if Passiflore (at which I have not eaten) might also fall within this category. The chef there recently published a book in French on soups.

I would say that Jerome Borderaux at newly established Chamaree (the subject of an unlinked thread entitled Chamarel) is coming to be viewed by the French culinary scene as being included in the gruop as well (despite being less established). After two meals, I'd have to say that I do not like Chamaree's cuisine.

[bushey]

Here's a link to an old (1999) Travel & Leisure article highlighting six Paris bistros. The only one I've been to so far is L'Ardoise.

Edited December 4, 2002 by bushey (log)

[Bux]

While Camdeborde is presented as the central figure in the Gourmet article, I have a feeling that Christian Constant's Violin d'Ingres, when it first opened, may represent the start of all this. Here was a chef from a two star restaurant opening a comparatively less expensive and less luxurious restaurant. Come to think of it, I also have the impression that many of the chefs in the Gourmet article worked at les Ambasadeurs in the Crillon and possibly under Constant. I could be very wrong about that however.

Qu'est-ce qu'on mange ce soir? the cookbook mentioned by Graham, was evidently published after the Gourmet article. It would be unlikely that the article prompted the cookbook and possibly more likely that the pending cook book authors had already gathered some attention as a group and that someone at Gourmet, or the author of the article picked up on that as a possible subject of an article.

[Scottf]

Here's a summary of dishes Sam and I have eaten this year, at bistro's possibly classfied as "moderne".

La Regalade

Boudin noir, pomme macaire & apple jus

Charcuterie

Wild canette. chestnuts, wild mushrooms and mustard mash

Pyrenees lamb casserole

Armagnac souffle, marinated prunes

Bitter chocolate bomb, spearmint icecream

L'Ardoise

Ravioli of pied de veau et foie gras

Marinated quail salad

Cod Fillet, sundried tomatoes, artichokes & garlic sauce

Beef fillet with morels

Veal rump, mashed potato & parsley sauce

Pot roasted pigeon with peas and lardons

Pineapple pastry, vanilla icecream

Le Clos de Gourmets

Wild leaves salad, parmesan, tomato coulis

Salt cod brandade, boiled egg, melba toast, red pepper coulis

Pork cheeks, mashed potato

Lamb noisettes, pomme anna, rosemary jus

Spiced confit fennel, citrus sorbet, basil chiffonade

Vanilla icecream ball covered in cocoa, banana chips

La Dinee

Leek Terrine, prawn tempura & chervil

Pied de veau, baked red pepper strips, dijon dressing

Entrecote charlolais, red onion & chive mashed potato

Scorpion fish, fondant potatoes, saffron sauce

Waffle apple tart, caramel, vanilla ice cream

Chocolate fondant, chocolate sorbet, baked passion fruit

Le Repaire de Cartouche

Petit pois soup, croutons & ventreche

Swiss chard gateaux, pan fried foie gras

Carre d'Agneaux de Geuvandon (sp?), white asparagus & watercress

Roast pigeonneau, young cabbage, cubes of foie gras

Cherry clafoutis

Strawberry feuilletee

Edited December 4, 2002 by Scottf (log)

[cabrales]

Scott -- Thanks If you have a chance, please consider discussing how you would rate the described establishments (relative to one another).

[lizziee]

Come to think of it, I also have the impression that many of the chefs in the Gourmet article worked at les Ambasadeurs in the Crillon and possibly under Constant. I could be very wrong about that however.

Bux,

You are absolutely correct about the impact of Constant.

Quoting from the same Gourmet article:

Camdeborde: "You had early restaurants like L'Os a Moelle by Thierry Breton, L'Ardoise by Pierre Jay --- many of us had worked with Christian Constant at the Crillon."

Of course, this also includes Camdeborde as well as Frechon who intially had a bistro La Verriere d'Eric Frechon before becoming head chef at Hotel Le Bristol. Both worked with Constant.

[thefoodhunter]

The first mention of the Constant "posse" that I remember was in the 1996 September Vogue by Jeffrey Steingarten in an article called "Bistrots du Jour". As usual Americans are the first to spot a trend and the first to share information about it. This wonderful article highlighted Yves Camdeborde of Regalade Eric Fréchon of the then named La Verriere, Thierry Breton at Chez Michel, François Pasteau at l'Epi Dupin, Thierry Faucher at l'Os a Moelle and David Van Lear then at Le Bamboche. The article was sent to me by a New Yorker, my best friend's mother who has shown me more about Paris than I have learned on my own living here for 12 years. She is an occasional visitor to Paris but packs in every moment with worthwhile activities. Our very own Steve Plotnicki is also one of these same well-informed Americans who show us jaded Parisians a few of our own secrets. Not surprising actually, the French don't share information, keeping it hidden means power. Americans do share information, distributing means power. Several months after the Steingarten article came out, French Elle magazine featured the above chefs plus Phillippe Detourbe (Restaurant Phillipe Detourbe and les Blés Coupés) Gilles Ajuelos (La Bastide Odeon) Christian Bochaton ( Les Béatilles) and Thierry Conte (Le Cuisinier François). I would add Didier Varnier of au Camelot to this list.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Graham, many, many thanks for bringing "Qu'est-ce qu'on mange ce soir ?" to our attention. Because the Young Turk dining rooms are the ones we have sought out for the last five years, I lost no time in ordering this book. Amazon France assures me that "It's in the mail".

[Bux]

Of course, this also includes Camdeborde as well as Frechon who intially had a bistro La Verriere d'Eric Frechon before becoming head chef at Hotel Le Bristol. Both worked with Constant.

One spring we ate in la Regalade, la Verriere d'Eric Frechon and Restaurant Phillipe Detourbe taking it easy on our stomcachs and wallets before heading out to Burgundy, Bresse and the Savoie. We left Paris so content, that I was ready to give up dining in starred restaurants--at least until we got to Vezelay. These restaurant averaged less than 200 FF for very nice three course meals (actually Dutourbe offered a set menu of five courses). More recent forays into inexpensive restaurants and bistros have not been as successful on a consistent basis, but the highlights every now and then leave me convinced I'm missing something if I try and eliminate any part of the mix that makes eating out in Paris a treat.

There is a real problem with need, Marc pointed out, of Americans to get and distribute information. One journalist told me of his regrets after uncovering some real Parisian finds in the US media. Restaurateurs were inundated with transient diners who required far more service and attention and who elbowed out the regulars by making advance reservations. It was much more work for the staff and after six months or so, the transient trade brought by a single article dwindled while the old regulars had found new haunts. Foodies burn up restaurants at home and abroad when they travel. It's dilemma. Of course our members are not to blame. I have however met the tourists who go far out of their way to eat in the little neighborhood bistros with little understanding of the customs or the food served there. Their unfamiliarity with the French language extends to words such as poulet and poisson. In the boondocks I am sympathetic to their condition and find their attempts to experience the "real" France quite charming, but it Paris where they are so numerous, I understand the xenophobia of restaurateurs at times, though I may suffer myself as a result.

[Scottf]

Scott -- Thanks  If you have a chance, please consider discussing how you would rate the described establishments (relative to one another).

These observations are based on solitary evening meals except L'Ardoise where we've also grabbed a single course for lunch.

La Dinee was easily the most comfortable of the dining rooms, with the more modern decor and the greatest space between tables.

Cuisine wise, La Regalade was the most consistent across all 3 courses, closely followed by La Dinee and Clos de Gourmets. Repaire de Cartouche and L'Ardoise were strong on starters and mains but weaker for desserts. Clos de Gourmets cuisine appeared lighter than the others (apart from the pig cheeks ), certainly not as rich as say Repaire de Cartouche or La Regalade.

We also found La Regalade and La Dinee particularly friendly in the service stakes, where as at L'Ardoise and Repaire de Cartouche the service was slightly disinterested. The service at L'Ardoise was also pretty rushed during the evening.

In summary I'd give the overall edge to La Regalade. We went there with higher expectations than the others and left feeling they'd been fulfilled.

[marcus]

L'Ardoise has only the most basic decor and their service is very rushed. They probably turn over their tables faster than any other restaurant it Paris. When we last ate there, the wine arrived at the table so late that we sent it back. However, the location is excellent, very near to the Place Vendome, and the quality of the food for the low price is extraordinary. I have a clear recollection of an extremely succulent veal dish with a brown sauce that had a stunning impact. I don't recall the desert at all, but I often do not include desert in my overall evaluation of a restaurant. It is also open on Sunday.

Edited December 5, 2002 by marcus (log)

[Scottf]

I'd agree you can eat well at L'Ardoise very reasonably, (in fact in all the bistro's I mentioned the set 3 courses is 30 euros or less), a couple of the dishes I've eaten have eclipsed courses I've had in starred restaurants.

And the location is a bonus, my wife's office is a mere 5 min stroll away

If you like L'Ardoise I'd heartedly recommend the others to you also.

[rpdkpd]

For a lengthy stay in Paris in Feb, I am looking for reviews or lists of the "baby" bistros. If they are already on a thread here, I apologize, and please point me the right way. Thanks! RPDKPD

[Miguel Gierbolini]

What's a baby bistro?

[bushey]

Are you interested in specific baby bistros (e.g. Les Bookinistes, Rotisserie d'en Face) that are the offshoots of some of the starred chefs or some of the up-and-coming bistros such as those listed in the bistro moderne thread?

[mogsob]

You should note that while some of the so-called baby bistros are very good indeed, you are not getting anything close to what you would get at the chef's main restaurant. Think of the bistro as having a similar owner, that's all -- there is no cache or value in eating in any baby bistro. That said, I like Rotisserie d'en Face a lot, as it is reasonable, convenient and usually open for business (including holidays and Sundays, as I recall). But it is not Jacques Cagna, by any means -- just a good restaurant.

Also, baby bistros tend to be a bit more expensive than comparable bistros without the tie to celebrity.

[rpdkpd]

In response to earlier posts: (i) I am interested in "baby" bistros only to see what the ownership is offering, but (ii) I am really interested in finding the best bistros, regardless of famous affilations. Again, if there is a good thread on this already, please point me to it! Thanks, RPD

[42390]

Try Au Bascou at 38 Rue Reamur, metro Arts & Metiers. Seems like the person who

runs this bistro once worked at Au Trou Gascon and / or les Carre des Feuillants.

The lamb is wonderful as is any number of the specialites they offer from the SW of

France. They also have a well priced list of hearty wines (Jurancon, Irouleguy,

Cahors, etc) from the SW. You can dine very well for only about 45E per person.

I have been there twice and will certainly return on my next trip.

Also, Bon Apetite magazine did an all Paris issue back in either April or May of 2001.

One section was devoted to the baby bistros, the bistros operated by starred chefs.

I think they mainly talked about the ones run by Guy Savoy, Bernard Loiseau and

Michel Rostang. If you can find this magazine it is worth reading.

David

[cabrales]

In addition to Savoy and Loiseau's facilities, in Paris here are some of the siblings of three-star restaurants:

L'Angle de Faubourg (one-star) -- Sibling to Vrinat's Taillevent. There is an old thread on this sibilng.

59 Poincare, Aux Lyonnais (the bistro taken over by Ducasse and the owner of L'Ami Louis), "be", Spoon, etc. -- Various affiliates, more tightly or loosely supervised, of Ducasse's restaurant at Plaza Athenee.

http://www.alain-ducasse.com/accueil_actualite_us.htm

Maison Blanche -- Run by Pourcel twins of Montpellier's Jardin des Sens.

M Troisgros is reported to be supervising something in Paris beginning in 2003. There is an old thread on this as well.

In addition to Rostang and Dutournier's places, for affiliates of Parisian two-stars, I believe La Tour d'Argent and Apicius might have some sort of affiliate (unclear).

I have not eaten at any of the above affiliates, except for L'Angle de Faubourg (see write-up, unlinked). I dislike all of Ducasse's restaurants, and have eaten a more than one Spoon outside of Paris (e.g., London). I dislike the food there.

I am interested in visiting Savoy affiliate Cap Vernet for the brand-name-producer oysters.

Edited December 10, 2002 by cabrales (log)

[cabrales]

On affiliates of Paris one-stars apart from Cagna's places:

-- Helene Darroze has a downstairs tapas bar that offers more moderately priced fare and potentially lighter meals.

-- Drouant has a cafe adjacent to the main restaurant.