Lyon

[ajay]

Beachfan, I'm quite curious as to this vegetarian menu proposal. We didn't think to ask for one, and as a general rule, the vegetarian in our part was served mostly garnishes from the meat courses--some of which were excellent, but many of which were quite pedestrian--i.e. the vegetarian received the l'Astrance's avacado 'ravioli' with avacado cubes in place of the crab. THe result, natrually was a dish that didn't make much of a culinary statement, though the avacado was very fresh. In short, based on a single trip that included multiple three star experiencces (plus Astrance), we have become convinced that vegetarian haute cuisine is essentially an oxymoron.

[lizziee]

Unpacking is a truly over-rated activity. Although, that is what I should be doing, I am procrastinating by writing posts on e-gullet.

Lyon--Auberge de l'lle

It is hard to call a 2 Michelin Star restaurant a "discovery", but Jean-Christophe Ansanay-Alex (lots of hyphens in his name) just received his second star in March. There does not seem to be much "buzz" about this restaurant in the States.

This is a wonderful restaurant located at Ile Barbe about 20 minutes outside of Lyon in an old country house built in the 1600s. It was a tough find for the cab driver as it is down next to the river under some bridges.

We had champagne and amuse outside in a tree-shaded courtyard. The chef, himself, presented the amuse and explained to us what we would be eating. (His English is perfect as he has an ex-wife who now lives in Marina de Rey in Los Angeles).

The amuse were:

1. 3 types of vegetable crisps--beet, potato and bundles of basil, parsley and cilantro.

2. baby shrimp in what he described as Japanese mustard, but it tasted more like wasabi and a touch of honey. The dish was presented in a wonton crisp. Unlike an Asian-inspired dish that we had had at George Blanc a couple of nights before, this had just the right balance of Asian flavors.

3. a canapé presented on a toothpick - the bottom layer sliced potato, then blood sausage (a Lyon specialty) and a round roasted shallot on top.

We were then presented with the menu and the wine list.

The menu is not a listing of dishes. On one side there was a poem by the chef describing the end of summer "terroir." On the other side it simply said 3 dishes 72 euro or 5 dishes, 90 euro with no description of the dishes.

Again, the chef reappeared and he described each dish in detail. He does this for each table so it is a good thing that this is a small restaurant. He also acts as his own sommelier.

WINE:

His choices to accompany his food:

95 Chassagne-Montrached, Premier Cru "Les Ruchottes", Ramonet--a great choice with the early courses.

96 Saint-Joseph, Cuvee du Papy, Domaine du Monteillet, Antoine Montez (Chavanay)--a producer we did not know--the chef mentioned that he was one of Montez's first customers and that he gets a good allocation of a very limited amount of the wine. He was pleased to share his discovery with us.

The wine turned out to be a perfect representative of the region. Full bodied, fruity, solid and big--delicious and well paired with the meat and the cheese. We certainly appreciated the Chef/Sommelier's guidance.

We were shown to our table in a small room at the front of the 1600's house. The ceiling is planked and the floor is the original stone flooring. There were 5 tables in this area and a side board serving table in the center. The Chef has created a display case with Michelin Red guides dating back to 1919. Above the case there was a raised dining area with one large round table for 8.

The feeling is that of dining in someone's home. The staff is very welcoming and excited to have you as a guest.

The amuse at the table--a cold pureed gazpacho soup served in a tall shot glass with a round avocado ball and a fried oyster skewered on a toothpick laid across the top of the glass--delicious and pretty.

1st course--mushroom soup, with a cappuccino foam served lukewarm. The incredible part of this soup was the briefly sautéed small chunks of foie gras that you "discovered" as you ate the dish.

2nd course--just roasted gamba (large reddish prawn) in the shell with sweet spices, fruit chutney of apples, plums, and raisins. This dish could have been over-wrought or "too much". Instead, it was well balanced and done with restraint. The chef used the words "sweet spices" to refer to the Indian spices he used.

3rd course--sautéed rouget on a bed of potatoes that looked like potatoes Anna with cepes, a crisp bacon strip and a uni sauce. This was the least successful dish. The potatoes were somewhat soggy and needed more crispiness, both for taste and texture. The cepes were good, but no match for Regis Marcon's freshly foraged ones from the Ardeche fields. The uni sauce was not as intense as other ones we have had, maybe due to the incredible quality of sea urchin available now in Maine and Santa Barbara.

4th course - guinea hen with a cepe mushroom red wine sauce with crunchy bits of chestnuts and plump wild cherries. Absolutely wonderful!! This dish really showed off the chef's talent.

5th course--as soon as we had finished the hen, I heard our server say to the chef--they are ready--they just finished the hen.

This was his notice to fire the next dish.

About 10 minutes later, we were presented with large white bowls which had steel ring molds placed in the center. Together the chef and our server removed the rings and out oozed "risotto" in a red wine porcini mushroom sauce. The rice was cooked just until creamy and with some crunch--his timing was perfect.

The chef apologized at this point because he had to leave for a meeting at 3:00 PM and he was already 40 minutes late. The chef, of course, did not leave immediately. He mentioned that the second Michelin star is just the starting point for his career. He is just 36 and is passionate about his profession. (As an aside, the chef can't use his right arm as he was crippled from a bad auto accident about 10 years ago.)

He is also very enthusiastic about the work of other chefs.

He has visited The French Laundry in each of the past 3 years and admires Thomas Keller immensely.

Everything at Auberge de l'lle shows the dedication of the entire staff.

They are in the process of constructing a cigar room on the second floor. A beautiful private dining room is in place. Even the bathrooms are unique. You climb a small circular staircase, you arrive at the toilettes--the only thing that distinguishes male from female is the halo of blue and pink illuminating the glass doors.

After the chef left, we had cheese and an array of desserts and coffee. By this time, I had put down the note pad and spent my time savoring the desert wine that the chef offered us.

All in all, a wonderful "find" for us in Lyon and a restaurant experience I would recommend highly.

-

[John Whiting]

lizziee, thank you for a stunning report. This sounds like my kind of moderately expensive restaurant -- the sort that is more interested in the food it serves than in its own importance. Modesty is the word that comes to mind.

[lizziee]

John, this is definitely a restaurant worth seeking out.

Now for our worst meal on this year's trip. Also in Lyon, it was La Tour Rose - The Ultimate Disaster.

We had eaten at La Tour Rose when it was a one star and had a wonderful meal. This year it lost its only star and, although we were worried, Francois, the concierge at Cour des Loges had heard good reports from the guests.

He had not yet recommended it. As it turns out, a good thing.

The chef was so distraught at losing his only star he had to be hospitalized (only in France!) and currently there is a new chef (at least they call him that) plus new servers, manager, etc.

The restaurant is absolutely magnificent. It is located in another of the 14th century hotels in old Lyon. It is as if you were sitting in a glass "cage"--the ceiling and 2 sides are all glass. You are sitting in the middle of history--colonnades and little passages are all around--in the "old days" these were used for smuggling. This particular night we should have used them to sneak out of this experience.

With our champagne --amuse--strings of fennel (I think, as our server hurriedly mumbled his description). There was a pronounced licorice taste. The green stuff had been made into greasy, oily tempura strips.

1st amuse--cream based soup of small bits of almonds, foie gras (according to the waiter) and an aromatic olive oil swirled on top. There was no taste of foie gras (I doubt it was there) and after a couple of bites, it was boring to eat.

2nd course--after a long (over 30 minutes) wait, we were presented with a tart of anchovies. This was a greasy mess of mushy eggplant and tomatoes swimming in olive oil, with fishy smelly obviously tired anchovies laid over the mush and topped off with a stale, tasteless, greasy wafer.

3rd course--cold oyster soup flavored with lemon and served with 3 tiny egg-white quenelles on which were place about 5 grains of caviar. The oyster taste was there, but with no presence of real oysters and so little caviar--no texture or crunch. This was a rendition of a classic dish--mediocre at best.

4th course--lightly cooked, lightly smoked salmon served on an array of mixed greens. The salmon was old, smelly and rancid. We had one bite saying --even the cats of Lyon would reject this mess.

By now we had eaten one piece of fennel, two soup spoons of the foie gras (?) soup, one piece of anchovy, and one of salmon--not a very good picture.

What was hard to understand is that the room was full of what appeared to be convention types, a table of 8 American women with badges on, but also a number of tables of "locals." They were all scarfing down this stuff that we could not even get past our lips--we hope they all did not die of ptomaine poisoning that night.

5th course--we were dreading the next course, the filet of boeuf. It arrived, a stringy, flavorless hunk of beef swimming in a brown mess of sauce that had no finesse. I wondered what sort of "reduction" methods the "chef" had used on this. It also did not help that we were supposed to cut this leather stuff with butter knives--we asked for the standard steak knives that are used in every French restaurant--they were grudgingly provided and still the meat was tough--only ate our "standard" one bite.

Wine--and a wine story. For wine we chose the 00 Gangloff Condrieu-- and St. Bonnet), wonderful and the 99 Gangloff LA Serein Noire, Cote Rotie. This is a wine we had not heard of from Mathilde et Yves Gangloff--higher priced than the La Barbarine that we love.

The sommelier was very enthusiastic. It was very good, but not spectacular. I had to ask for the proper glasses--which did not help. Certainly a very good Cote Rotie, but not any kind of value.

Now--the story.

The Gangloff has a very unique label. They had just poured one glass of the Gangloff for us and we waited to enjoy it with our meat. My husband, then, sees one of the comis pouring our wine as wine by the glass for some other couple--well-what to do, limited French but we are being screwed out of 30+ % of our 130 Euro bottle...

My husband took action by pointing out the mistake to the Maitre d' who immediately verified it with the comis who poured...no real apologies from anyone other than the kid who screwed up, but they eventually brought us another bottle of the same wine--making good on our money--except the new bottle was freezing cold...the sommelier had become very snooty all of a sudden--embarrassed or something--he did not present new glasses, and poured the new wine directly into the old--who knew if the new bottle was bad..but ..it was so cold we wouldn't have been able to tell anyway.

Toward the end of the meal, I went to the bathroom and mentioned to the manager, Yves, that La Tour Rose used to be a wonderful restaurant with memorable dishes like the sliced potatoes with creme fraiche and caviar. He sort of shrugged his shoulders and said, "What do you expect from a restaurant with no stars?"

We have eaten in many non-starred restaurants and have had some wonderful experiences at places like La Cote Rotie in Ampuis, Can Peio in Junas, Le Saint Laurent in Macon and Le Mimosa in Saint Guiraud, etc.

What a mess - considering food, wine, service et al--this ranks as one of the 3 worst dining situations we have had in years. At this point we gave up entirely on the meal, even though we had quite a bit of red wine left. We decided to make sure that the "staff" did not get the pleasure of our wine and became mixologists with a new "recipe" just for our servers. Our special recipe--1 part red wine, 1 part Evian and 1 part left over white wine.

[Bux]

Regarding Auberge de l'lle, it's hard for a good restaurant not to get noticed by someone in France. There are too many guides, critics and reviewers, but it's interesting that sometimes the "buzz" about a restaurant in the States is not what it may be in France. Sometimes we discover a restaurant only to discover that it's well known, at least in certain circles, but no one talks about. Publicity tends to snowball and everyone is talking about the places with which we are already familiar. So I thank you greatly for the report on Auberge de l'Ile. I suspect it's less than downtown location will help keep it a bit of a Lyonnaise secret. It sounds as if it's worth the cab ride, but with excellent restaurants in Vieux Lyon, the Presqu'ile and Les Brotteaux, I doubt I would have ventured to the Ile Barbe without a good recommendation in addition to its two stars. As John notes, it's at an appealing price as well.

[Beachfan]

Welcome Back! Great posts.

Did you eat at Les Loges?

[ajay]

Lizzee,

A fabulous set of reports, as always. I enjoyed them very much. I do have a couple of questions, though:

1. Were you served desserts at Auberge de Ille? Given the high quality of the meal, I was expecting to indulge my sweet tooth (vicariously of course ), but was suprised to find no mention of dessert.

2. Given the somewhat short amount of time (you mention ten minutes) between the hen and the rissotto, do you believe the kitchen used the 'par-cooking' method, of preparing the rissotto, or do you believe it was prepared from scratch? Is the former acceptable in a restaurant of this caliber.

I look forward to the rest of your reports, particularly from Roanne.

[lizziee]

ajay,

There will always be one lacking quality in all of my posts - after the aperitifs, bottle of white, bottle of red, I put down my pad and stop writing. I apologize to Steve Klc in advance, but there is just so much that I am capable of with this amount of wine and food.

As for the rissotto, it was from scratch. I think, he held it carefully, got the word from his server, and then "finished" it off. It is much the same as making slowly scrambled eggs - I can make them in 10 minutes or 20 minutes or even 35 minutes, adjusting the heat accordingly.

[Bux]

2.  Given the somewhat short amount of time (you mention ten minutes) between the hen and the rissotto, do you believe the kitchen used the 'par-cooking' method, of preparing the rissotto, or do you believe it was prepared from scratch?  Is the former acceptable in a restaurant of this caliber.

I've added the emphasis. I think you can ask if the results are acceptable for a two star restaurant. How they achieve those results really doesn't matter does it? Would you prefer a lesser quality risotto if it were cooked to a more exacting classic standard? I don't think so. I think it's legitimate to ask about the technique, but in the end it's the quality that counts. If a professional can develop a short cut with the same, or a better end result, why not?

[ajay]

Bux,

Your response gets to the issue underlying my post. I agree, in the end, it is the result that matters, whether in a two start restaurant or a street food vendor. So, the phrasing of the question could have been a bit different.

But, I was proceeding on the assumption, largely gleamed from persuing fat guy's "rissoto day" article that while the traditional method, and the par-cooking method of preparing rissotto are largely comporable, there is in fact a discenrable difference, especially to a discriminating diner. Also, fat guy has noted in his review of a place like Picholene that they indeed use the traiditonal method, and though it has been a while since I have read this particular review, I recall the feeling that this method of preparation added to the flavor of the rissotto.

So, the question I was attempting to ask with the assumption articulated above, is "is the slightly diminished flavor/texture of a rissotto prepared with the par cooking method acceptable in a restaurant of this (i.e. Michelin two star level)?"

I am of course satisfied with the answer that the rissotto was either (and this explanation is more likely) prepared in the traditional method, or that it was prepared with the par-cooking method, but a discriminating diner, like Lizzee was unable to note any difference, and hence the question is moot.

Sorry for the mix up.

[lizziee]

I am not a rissoto expert so is it possible to slow the cooking process or speed it up depending on when you want to serve it? The reason I used the scrambled egg analogy is that I can do that quite easily and produce a dish at the moment.

The chef was completely aware of where we were in a given course. (He came to our table at the beginning of each dish and as it is a small restaurant there was constant contact between the front and the back). My assumption was that he "fired" the rissoto, but then adjusted how fast to finish it off based on when we finished the dish just preceeding. This could be way off - it is based on assumptions not fact. But, the rissoto was perfectly prepared and much better than I have had in Italian restaurants that feature the "best".

[lizziee]

Leon de Lyon is a classic Lyon restaurant serving basic, classic Lyonaise food. There are no bells and whistles, no surprises, but then again there are rarely big mistakes. You can expect and you get classic, well prepared food. The major down-side is the impersonal, "going through the motions" service; it is so impersonal that you feel that you are just one more face, creating work for the staff.

We were not offered an aperitif until we snagged a server and asked for one. The amuse were nice--a tomato with a ravigote sauce and a wonton crisp filled with sausage.

2nd amuse--a cold soup of green vegetables and fresh herbs perfectly prepared and balanced.

1st course - My husband had the pate en croute with gelee and mixed salad. It was absolutely perfect--rabbit, foie gras and duck.

I had the artichoke appetizer which consisted of perfectly cooked al dente artichoke heart slices, artichoke mousse, a small mixed green salad and an unusual touch of a small slice of sautéed foie gras .

Main course--My husband had lamb. This dish utilized all parts of the lamb--the liver, sweetbreads, saddle, rib, plus chopped lamb in an hallowed out squash bowl. There was also a tomato filled with a puree of peas and courgette filled with mushrooms. Unfortunately, the chop was overcooked, although the vegetable sides were wonderful.

I had the rabbit which also utilized various parts - on the bone, the loin stuffed with a minced rabbit stuffing plus a mound of shredded rabbit. The dish was garnished with deep fried strips of polenta. There was also a small casserole of end of the summer vegetables, served on the side.

Cheese course - For some reason the cheese tasted very salty.

Four years ago we had a spectacular lunch at Leon de Lyon - my husband had the finest pigs trotters he has ever had. We were so looking forward to our return visit, but found the experience, both as to food and service, disappointing.

Lyon de Lyon seems to be a businessman's lunch place more than a couples fine dining experience dinner place. The lunch menu features more of the traditional cuisine we were hoping to have, but is not offered at dinner. All in all, I would chose Leon de Lyon for lunch. (Chef Lacombe mentioned that his business has remained the same throughout the year. Our guess is that the bulk of his business is local business people for lunch.)

Wines:

98 Beaune-Clos-Du-Roi, Tollot-Beaut & Fils--wonderful.

[foieboy]

Will be in Lyon on a Monday, when options are limited. Have a few in mind: La Voute, Fleur de sel, Les Adrets, Maison Villemazy, and Le Vivarais. Anyone with thoughts on these. Alson will in Monaco. has anyone been to Hostellerie Jerome in La Turbie?

[Bux]

This is one of the few French restaurants in which we've had meals over a number of years. in fact it was twenty years between our first visit and the second one. Both of those meals were superb, we thought. I recall the first dinner when we chose a creative tasting menu over the traditional tasting menu. Of the dishes I still recall, a sandre crusted with unusual spices stands out some decades later. By our second visit, the tradtional food of France had evolved and the offering now was only a single tasting menu of a contemporary classic nature. This meal was excellent in it's own right. A few years later (about two years ago from today) we dined at Leon de Lyon again, but felt a bit let down. We hoped it was just our mood, or the fact that we had eaten so many other great meals in quick succession that week. I recall however, that there was a separate listing of very classic dishes. I suspected that some of them had disappeared from the menu for a while and were being revived. That you sensed a lifelessness about the service is sad for us, as we have such fond memories, albeit of two out of our three visits. One of the interesting things about the difference between our first and second visits is that they enlarged the restaurant, but removed several tables and served fewer diners. At the time, I thought (and suppose they did as well) that this would get them their third star. Both of those meals seemed as good as it could get. Unfortunately, the last meal was good, but not quite the same experience.

[Paul Bell]

I am going to Lyon at the end of May and am intending to go to a number of the 'michelin' restaurants in the area, (Troisgros, Georges Blanc, Alain Chapel, Pyramide etc).

I have read most of comments on the board and some clarification would be helpful.

Firstly how good is Marc Veyrat? I do not get a sense that people have been there and been hugely impressed and that it is a must go to place (like Troisgros) (but I may have missed this?) more that it is a good three star restaurant.

Secondly Paul Bocuse, I get the impression that this restaurant is best avoided in so far as there are many better in the area.

Finally restaurants that do not appear to have as many comments as others, I am considering going to Pic in the south of the region and Lameloise in Burgundy, any comments? and is it worth going further north to Bernard Loiseau's restaurant?

I am sure some of these questions are difficult to answer e.g. is it worth going to a restaurant? depends if you want to go there! But any comments appreciated.

Paul

[Gary Marshall]

Hi Paul

I don't know if you're driving to Lyon?

When i was in that neck of the woods i stopped at boyer les crayeres in reims on the way down south it's a further piece to add to the jigsaw!

Although i was staying in roanne i hadn't really planned ahead and although checked out the menu at troisgros i couldn't get a reservation. I satisfied my lust for 3 stars at bocuse and i have to say it wasn't great.

The great man himself was there but service was v slow, exacerbated when you are dining solo as i was and the food although technically well prepared wasn't earth shattering.

i went in my pre-egullet days so had no idea of what to expect , just that it was supposed to be one of france's great restaurants. from what i have read here troisgros would have been a better choice.

These were the first 3 star places i'd been to and i wasn't blown away. I think usually there's a big jump in quality between 1 and 2 stars so i was hoping for a similar jump from 2 to 3 but i found the difference is much more marginal.

hope that's of some interest

gary

[Beachfan]

Les Loges was very, very impressive, more so than one would expect from a one star.

[cabrales]

Bocuse's cuisine was poor on the only visit I made. I had planned two meals, but could not consider taking in another one. I ordered specialty items too: the truffle soup VGE, sole (?) with noodles dish named after F Point, Bresse chicken in cream sauce (non-vessie variety). However, I am planning a revisit because there are historically interesting aspects of the Bocuse facility.

Even if you don't eat there, go visit the restaurant to view the murals on certain of its walls. These depict certain great chefs in history.

I also dislike Veyrat's cuisine, but that's a much more subjective call.

[Bux]

I am going to Lyon at the end of May and am intending to go to a number of the 'michelin' restaurants in the area, (Troisgros, Georges Blanc, Alain Chapel, Pyramide etc).

I do not understand the reference to a Michelin restaurant in this connection. Michelin does not own or manage restaurants and it lists far more unstarred restaurants than it does ones with a star. Much fuss is made over the promotions and demotions each year, but the value of the Michelin Guide to many, is as great at the middle and bottom levels as it is at the top.

Firstly how good is Marc Veyrat? I do not get a sense that people have been there and been hugely impressed and that it is a must go to place (like Troisgros) (but I may have missed this?) more that it is a good three star restaurant.

I'm not quite sure I get the meaning of this either. For what it's worth, we were there back in the spring of 1998, so it's hard to predict what the food will be like now, but we were hugely impressed. Drop dead, knock your socks off impressed. The man is a genius. If he's gone off the deep end since, I am sorry to hear that, but we were impressed.

It's been quite sometime since I've been at Bocuse, but I too have the impression it is more of an institution than a relevant restaurant to most gastronomes. That doesn't make it a must visit or a must avoid. Either of those may apply in anyone's particular situation. It's a subjective decision. Subjectively, I have little interest in returning at this point. On the other hand in my time I have dined at famous restuarants whose chefs were in the twilight of their career for the knowledge I could get.

It's been longer since we've been at Loiseau than at Veyrat. We loved our meal back then. I wanted to go back this fall but it was outside the entent of our itinerary which was mostly in the Loire and the rooms were expensive, so we didn't make the effort to go there.

The difference between two and three star restaurants seems to be that I am usually pleased as Punch to have dined at a two star restaurant whereas I'm sometimes thrilled and sometimes a bit disappointed by three star restaurants. The best two star meals are at those restaurants destined to become three star restaurants. In any event it may be more important to know about a restaurant and it's food rather than knowing if it's good or not in anyone's opinion including the Michelin Guide when choosing.

[vmilor]

It is a bit hard to make recommendations without knowing the person's taste. What I can say is that I have been to Veyrat twice, in 98 and last summer. His cooking has changed considerably. It is now what I called postmodern in the Symposium. The first time we were thrilled, so to speak. The second time we found that the contrast among the dishes in his grand menu symphonie was not as pronounced. The mountain herbs he used in his dishes did not have enough variation in taste to make you feel that there is a crescendo. There has also been an interesting discussion in the symposium initiated by Lizzie re. balace in a menu and I felt that his menu had aimed to startle on the spot rather than leave a long term impression. I should also add that his wine markups are the highest I have seen in any 3 stars. All this said, Veyrat is a force to reckon with in the history of haute cuisine and if I were you I would still try it. Troisgros is also very good, not far from Annecy and the cuisine is capable of doing both traditional and nouvelle dishes. Also close is Geneve/Lausanne and personally I think the trio of Rochat/Pont de Brent and Chateauvieux(a 2stars deserving 3) will appeal to anybody who appreciates refined-modern versions of classical French.

[Peter Rodgers]

I have hated, despised, felt cheated each of the three times that my wife and I have dined at Veyrat. Others, including the Michelin inspectors apparently disagree, but if you have additonal choices, avoid it. I have not had an opportunity to dine at Pic since Sophie Pic took over the kitchen, but reports from others make this one of my top priorities for the next trip to that part of France. We love Troisgros, but be prepared to spend your life's savings -- check out the website for a menu and prices. George Blanc is still a favorite for service and the overall ambiance of his sprawling establishment, but don't expect the most creative food. Pyramide is definitely worth the detour (the rooms at Pyramide have improved, but the town of Vienne is very drab). Loisseau can hit you fabulously one night and disappoint the next. Rumor is about that he may lose his third star next time around (but he kept it this year). Last, if you don't mind a healthy drive, take in Michel Bras. A stupendous place to stay; extraordinary food (although in some respects severe) and the best part is that you can shop for knives (especially steak knives) to your heart's content in the town of Laguiole before you head on your way to the next major meal.

[lizziee]

Paul,

It seems that your trip is arranged around dining in Michelin 2 and 3 star restaurants. I would echo the comments of Cabrales, Vmilor and Peter. Bocuse is mediocre food, but historically interesting. Troisgros is extraordinary. At Georges Blanc, be sure to pre-order (at least 24 hours in advance) the Poularde de Bresse cuitre en croute de gros sel "Selon Alexandre." This is a much better dish than his other hyped chicken dish. We were unimpressed with Pyramide and felt that this was a two star on the way down.

Veyrat is very controversial. Like Vmilor, our first meal there was exceptional. Last year, it was awful - innovation for the sake of innovation with weird combinations of flavors.

Also, like Vmilor, I second his suggestion of Rochat/Pont de Brent and Chateauvieux.

In Lyon, I would suggest Auberge de l'lle, a new two star.

[boris]

I wish to chime in regarding L'Alexandrin. Went prior to them getting a "star". Was our first fine meal in Lyon. A class act - husband in the kitchen, wife in charge at the front of the house. Great wine selection. Had the morel-asparagus menu. Had a year's worth of morels. Well decorated interior. Lots of locals.

What can be said about Troisgros that hasn't been said? The finest meal of our lives. Period

Have fun!

[ajay]

I don 't know how drastically the prices at troisgros have changed, but I didn't find that I needed to be prepared "to spend my life savings" in order to dine there. As I recall the tasting menu was around 140 euros (117 without a dish of fabulous langostines). Those prices compare quite favorably with the prices of three stars in Paris (see especially l'Arpege where the tasting menu ran 300 euros and 150 euro entrees were not uncommon). Moreover, the big kicker for me is that the prices include service, and unlike restaurants without rooms in the city, it is actually difficult to leave an extra gratutity (i.e. our money was refused the night of dinner and again when we settled the bill during check-out). Given this fact, I believe Troisgros compares at a similar level (pricewise) to New York City 4 stars (that is when tax and service are factored into account), but is a subjectiveley and objectively more amazing dinning experience.

I haven't been to les lodges but I have heard very very good things from multiple sources, so I would be highly inclined to add it to my itnerary.

[cabrales]

Unlike ajay's experience, my gratuities at Troisgros have not been refused on any occasion. I have left gratuities in cash tableside for about seven to eight meals, over the course of three sets of visits. The regular bill amount was added to my room, but my cash gratuity was left at the table and nobody attempted to return the amounts to me when I dined there as part of consecutive meals.