Least expensive Michelin *d restaurants in Paris

[lambretta76]

A culinary trip to France has taken a turn to the worse (culinarily speaking) due to finding an amazing apartment rental that we couldn't pass up on.

Anyways, our food budget is now being spent on lodging, and most of the meals will be made at the chef's kitchen in our apartment (to be stocked with the best foods from the surrounding markets). But we'd like to do at least one meal a day out and about, and one of those I would like to be at a Michelin-starred restaurant, as I have yet to go to one.

Can anyone recommend any inexpensive, or great value, Michelin-starred restaurants in the Paris area? It can be either within the city or a short train ride out to the countryside.

(We will be there from October 2-10, so I imagine most places will be open...)

[John Talbott]

With all due respect, your question poses a few problems before one can help out. First, to get a Michelin star/macaroon, one must be either be established elsewhere, eg Robuchon, Ducasse, Loiseau, or be in business for a while (thus precluding new restaurants which usually are a better value until they are reviewed in the usual guidebooks, at which point, they usually raise their prices). Second, Michelin often awards restaurants stars/macaroons in France for decor and flowers over food, again reference Loiseau (Burgundy Stars) which sometimes merit several knives & forks without the star/macaroon. Finally, you don't specify for lunch or dinner, and there's often a sizeable differential. If you can clarify a bit, I and we will be better able to answer.

[lambretta76]

John -

I figured that it would probably be best for a lunch time experience, as it may be somewhat remotely affordable. I'm just looking for that "Michelin star" experience, whatever that may be, before Michelin begins rating restaurants in New York. Previous attempts to dine at Michelin-starred restaurants (Fortaleza do Guincho in Portugal, Cafe de Paris in Malaga, ES) have been foiled by poor planning.

[grace3]

I would say Violon d'Ingres. Christian Constant has passed on sooo much to others who are tops now, too. It is probably the best bargain for lunch that you will find for a starred restaurant.

Catherine and Christian have become good friends. If you would like Catherine's e-mail address for a reservation, I would be glad to give it to you.

a bientot...........

[Bux]

I'd like to emphasize that not all Michelin stars are the same. There may be a far greater difference between one star restaurants and two star restaurants than there are between no star and one star. Although a star in Paris is a significant achievement I've had quite a medicore meal in a one star restaurant in Paris. It's of some significance that the restaurant lost its star the next year, I suppose, but you won't know who's going to lose a star next year when you reserve this year. Outside of Paris, the star only means the best restaurant in the area. There are areas in France without competition.

I honestly don't know that I could describe the Michelin star experience. Whatever it is, it varies with the price charged. That means it's a different experience in an expensive restaurant than it is in an inexpensive one and it also means it may vary considerably with what you eat and drink in the same restaurant. I had the most expensive menu offered at one two star restaurant and it compared with some three star meals I've had. I returned a few years later and ordered the lunch special at about a third the price and I thought the food experience was worth maybe a star.

Maybe there's a three star experience that can be codified, but I don't think that's so at the one star level. They can vary too much in price.

[Carlsbad]

I think Le Violon d'Ingres http://www.leviolondingres.com/eng_home.htm is an excellent choice in you want a restaurant with a star. Their lunch menu is 39 euros, and a very good value. It's fairly elegant, but not stuffy. You might also consider the Michelin Bib Gourmand restaurants, for lunch or dinner. They are good value restaurants without stars, but they are generally very interesting foodwise.

If you go to the Michelin website http://www.viamichelin.com/viamichelin/gbr.../MaHomePage.htm and then set up an account (no cost), you can explore all their restaurants, starred or not. You can get an idea of the cost of each one, along with a brief description. It is also a good source for maps, driving directions, and hotels.

[lambretta76]

Le Violon d'Ingres is exactly the type of restaurant I'm looking for. I guess I'm interested in the most "knives and forks" at the best value with at least one star. Something like Les Ambassadeurs, Laurent, or Les Muses. (I guess closer to Les Muses, which has one star and four "knives and forks".) Maybe even something like Au Trou Gascon, with its (according to the Red Guide) €36 lunch prix fixe. Probably looking to spend around €50 a person - is this reasonable?

[grace3]

FYI..the Constants have two newer restaurants that are practically next door to Violon d'Ingres..131 and 139 rue Saint Dominique. They are not starred restaurants, but thave their flair. They are also receiving very good comments..no reservations, so can sometimes be difficult for a table. Give them a try......

[Bux]

Le Violon d'Ingres is exactly the type of restaurant I'm looking for. I guess I'm interested in the most "knives and forks" at the best value with at least one star. Something like Les Ambassadeurs, Laurent, or Les Muses. (I guess closer to Les Muses, which has one star and four "knives and forks".) Maybe even something like Au Trou Gascon, with its (according to the Red Guide) €36 lunch prix fixe. Probably looking to spend around €50 a person - is this reasonable?

Tax and service are generally included in all restaurant prices, but it's not uncommon to leave another 5% additional, although less necessary than a tip in the U.S. Beverages are rarely included. Bottled water, wine and coffee will be extra. The more forks and spoons found next to a restaurant's name in the Guide Michelin, the more you likely to have to spend on wine. A good wine list is one of the things that would be required before a restaurant got a star, so in a way, wine may be considered part of the starred experience.

This brings up the question of whether you are interested in the fork and spoon aspect or the star (food) aspect. You will get more food value at a starred restaurant with fewer forks and spoons, and more luxury for your money at a five fork/no star restaurant, in my opinion. I've always kept an eye on the ratio of the number of stars to the cost, but as I mentioned earlier

Last year, two people spent 110€ for dinner in Aux Lyonnais. Although it's an archetype of an unstarred restaurant, I thought it was remarkable food value. One could stick to the prix fixe menu, skip coffee and drink even less expensive wine and bring that price down.

Violon d'Ingres has a prix fixe menu for 39 euros at lunch according to Michelin's web site. At dinner it will cost 80-110 euros per person plus beverages. I can't really say if the lunch menu is truly representative of why the restaurant has a star, but at 78 euros for food, you're left with 22 euros for wine.

Au Trou Gascon has a 36 euro menu at lunch.

[42390]

During my trip to France in June of this year, I had dinner at Violon d'Ingres, Au Trou Gascon, l'Angle du Faubourg, and Relais Louis XIII (2star). Between the four, I think the cooking was about equally good at Violon and Relais Louis. You know that Violon had 2 stars also at one point, but I think lost one in 2001. I spent the most at Relais Louis but I think that was more the result of being sucked in by the 25e per glass Laurent & Perrier Grand Cuvee de la Siecle aperitif than anything.

Relais Louis has a remarkably well priced, for a 2 star, 68e dinner menu with 2 choices per course and a 45e lunch menu. They offered wines by the glass in the 8 to 12e price range. I have not eaten lunch there but the 68e dinner was fabulous. Here is a link Relais Louis XIII

This was my 3rd visit to Violon, I ate there on a Saturday night (it is rare to find a starred restaurant in Paris open on Saturday) and it was packed, so the service was kind of rushed compared to what I had found on previous visits, making the entire experience less enjoyable than I expected. The cooking did not suffer, however. There were many overly casually dressed Americans there too.

While I have not bee to the other two Constant restaurants that are adjacent to Violon, I kept seeing platters of food being taken from the kitchen area of Violon and going out the door. I asked Catherine Constant about this and she confirmed that the chefs at Violon prepare some of the stuff that is served at Cafe Constant and Fables de Fontaine. My 2 previous visits were both for lunch and I think the lunch menu is very representative of Constant's cooking.

The cooking at l'Angle is quite good too, but the decor is something more akin to what you might find in NY rather than distinctively French, in my opinion. L'Angle also has what is probably the cheapest starred lunch in Paris, 35e, but you get no choice among the courses they are offering that day. They do have a nice secection of well priced wines by the glass so you can easily have lunch there for 50 to 55e per person. L'Angle was very busy on the Monday night I ate there but the busy crowd did not seem to be as much of a challenge to the wait staff as was the case at Violon. It is a much bigger restaurant too.

Trou Gascon was not really a let down but I think it was the least favorite of the group. (Keep in mind that with starred restaurants you are often trying to make a distinction between degrees of perfection) I ordered a kind of rustic dish, Cuisse d'Oie, which was a goose leg that I think had been stored in a confit type of manner then fried. It was quite good, but like I say, kind of a rustic preparation for a 1 star. I did have a very tasty glass of 1983 Armagnac after dinner that was one of the highlights of the trip. They have an extensive selection of Armagnacs and Cognacs in keeping with the SW France provenance of the owners.

Hope this information helps with your selection.

[mdibiaso]

You can have a very good three star experience at with the prefixe lunch at Lucas Carton for under 100Euro a head for food. Check their website www.lucascarton.com for a current menu in a few weeks when they reopen.

[Bux]

Trou Gascon was not really a let down but I think it was the least favorite of the group. (Keep in mind that with starred restaurants you are often trying to make a distinction between degrees of perfection) I ordered a kind of rustic dish, Cuisse d'Oie, which was a goose leg that I think had been stored in a confit type of manner then fried. It was quite good, but like I say, kind of a rustic preparation for a 1 star.

I think that was a very thorough and helpful post, at least to me, and I suspect even more so to others. I appreciate the subjective comments as much as the objective ones and I appreciate your attempt to keep them from being confused. I would like to say a few words about confits and their relationship to starred restauants. I would not find it improper to see this in a starred restaurant. I think Benoit specializes in rustic dishes and has a star. The difference between a superbly done confit and one that's poorly done is quite substantial. I'd never want to have the confit I had last year in Chartres again anywhere in the world, but it's a dish I'd order in a starred restaurant or one in which I was assured of getting a good rendition.

I am not surprised to hear verification that some of the food in Constant's bistros is prepared in Violon d'Ingres. We were with a member who knew him and were introduced to him as we found him in his cafe cleaning up one night. He seemed like a hell of a nice guy, dedicated to his metier and committed to being hospitable. He opened his bar and brought out drinks for all of us.

[grace3]

Christian and Catherine Constant are lovely people. I have come to know them well. I dine there every time in Paris, and correspond with Catherine from time to time via e-mail. She had told me ahead of time about each of the new restaurants.

They are keeping very busy!!

[John Talbott]

There's a difference between the Fables and Cafe C; Fables has a full kitchen, but the Cafe has little but a hot plate upstairs, hence the platters from the Violin. This is solid info acquired from going to the restrooms in both.

[Carlsbad]

I had an interesting experience at Cafe Constant in June. During a lazy afternoon, I was sitting alone at the bar, drinking a glass of wine and watching the people go by, when the doors of the lower cabinet behind the bar mysteriously opened by themselves. The next thing I knew, a man who worked there crawled out from behind the doors, having come from what appeared to be the cellar of the place. The man left for a while, and when he returned, he disappeared into the cabinet again.

[fresh_a]

It's undoubtedly an underground storage room. I've had this experience many a time in smaller Paris restaurants...

[Le Zouave]

And what about the fantastic lunch menu at l'Astrance (35 or 36€, I guess)? I've never had it since the place opened (back in those days, it was something like 175 francs), because I always choose the "surprise" tasting menu : 120 to 150€, depending on the wines you choose.

[grace3]

Yes, l'Astrance does have a baragain lunch now. I have only had dinner there. It is an interesting place..and with most certain popularity!!

[Le Zouave]

Did I miss something? I think I read somewhere their lunch menu was now around 45€? It's still a huge quality-price rate...

[lambretta76]

I was just going to say that I looked around and l'Astrance was quoted as starting at €45 for lunch. I definitely have some very interesting choices to pine over...

[Le Zouave]

As far as I'm concerned, it'd be l'Astrance and nothing else! In ten years, when Pascal Barbot will have two or three stars (and when his lunch menu won't probably be a bargain anymore ;-), if you see what I mean), you'll tell your friends you were there back in the days... Le Violon d'Ingres is a bit more classic — though I do like the chef. BTW, speaking about lunch bargains: if I were you, I'd check the Ambassadeurs' prix-fixe (the Crillon's restaurant). It'll be far more expensive than l'Astrance (maybe 70€), but it's worth a try. Bon apetit, anyway!

[marcus]

Seconding what Bux said, there is no generic Michelin one star experience. Although people are sceptical, Michelin states that stars are awarded solely based on the quality of the food, and I personally believe that this is true except possibly at the 3 star level. Thus a bistro such as Benoit can receive a star, although it is miles different in style from Violin. In the early 80s, Allard had one spoon and fork and 2 stars, and served true bistro food in a very simple bistro setting, very expensive however.

If one is looking to approximate a fancy dining experience along with good food, Violin is not a bad choice. However, it is one of those restaurants that for some reason seems to appeal primarily to Americans and other English speaking visitors, other examples are Atelier Robuchon and Al Covo in Venice, there are many more, but you'll find very few locals, and the food is eclectic and somewhat generic. Christian Constant is a good chef, but overrated by visitors, he did once have 2 stars and probably came close to setting the record for holding them for the shortest time. Among the restaurants mentioned, I would vote for Au Trou Gascon, a true regional restaurant which serves what I would describe as real food. It is quite a way out of the center so perhaps may offer more value. This restaurant also had 2 stars many years ago, but when Dutournier opened Carre des Feuillants, he left his wife to run the original restaurant, and it lost one of its stars. Astrance, as far as I know, remains the most difficult reservation in Paris, so going there will require planning and effort, at least a month in advance.

[grace3]

Since we are tossing is some othrs..I will add to it...Les Ambassadeurs is great for lunch, or dinner, The Hotel Bristol is a lovely spot for lunch and the Meurice is pleasant..and the Ritz is a good stop!!

[marcus]

Since we are tossing is some othrs..I will add to it...Les Ambassadeurs is great for lunch, or dinner, The Hotel Bristol is a lovely spot for lunch and the Meurice is pleasant..and the Ritz is a good stop!!

All among the most expensive restaurants in Paris.

[lambretta76]

So, first off thank you so much for all the recommendations! It's really appreciated. And I'll be posting a list of all of the restaurants I will be trying soon once I narrow it down, for critique and alternative offers.

Anyways, the short list of "upper-end" restaurants to try:

Les Ambassadeurs (€70)

Le Meurice (€65)

L'Astrance (€45)

Le Violon d'Ingres (€39)

Les Ambassadeurs and Le Meurice will probably be cut becuase the food options are quite limited on the lunch prix fixe. Especially Les Ambassadeurs, with just two choices - my girlfriend is allergic to shellfish and pretty much already knows what she is going to have to eat. Le Meurice has five options per, but the menu seems less inspired. The only reasons these two are even still be considered is because the dining rooms are simply breathtaking.

More serious consideration is being given to Le Violon d'Ingres - partly due to its inexpensive menu, less so for its uninspired decor. Can anyone comment on the recent lunch prix fixe - how many options are there per course, best dishes, etc.

And probably coming in a close second to Le Violon d'Ingres is l'Astrance. It seems like the place to go and the room suits us perfect. (A couple of late-20s Brooklyners.) Can anyone comment on the state of its lunch prix fixe? (I assume it will change when they get back from the August break, but what have people had there in the past?)

Again, merci beaucoup, mille grazie, muito obrigado, muchas gracias, domo arigato, kamsa hamnida, etc.

Edited August 25, 2004 by lambretta76 (log)