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I made Eeyore last night again, since it was on my mind. I used up the last of the bianco (well, all but a 1/2 oz, so I finished off the bottle wino-style). I think it is a bit on the sweet side for me. Maybe next time a perfect Eeyore? (As if the cocktail ingredient list isn't long enough. Sheesh.)

I think that you can't get Cocchi Americano. I have really enjoyed the CR#2 with that. I didn't find the M&R Bianco interesting enough to want to have a bottle open all the time. Perhaps Cinzano or Dolin is more interesting? BTW, I wouldn't worry about oxidizing -- mine was fine evacuated and refrigerated for the better part of a year.

Have a good Sunday. I hare you are busy.

You can indeed get Cocchi Americano although availability depends on where you live. I get it in the Washington, DC area with no difficulty.

You can also get Cocchi Vermouth di Torino, which is a more bitter, less sweet vermouth. It might be about midway between Cocchi Americano and Campari; less sweet than the Cocchi Americano, less bitter than Campari. It's great on the rocks with a slice of orange.

I've been drinking quite a lot of vermouth for the past few years, usually on the rocks, and recently started making my own sweet and dry vermouths. If anyone else here is making house vermouths, I'd love to hear about your techniques or favorite recipes.

bill

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I've been drinking quite a lot of vermouth for the past few years, usually on the rocks, and recently started making my own sweet and dry vermouths. If anyone else here is making house vermouths, I'd love to hear about your techniques or favorite recipes.

bill

bostonapothecary seems to be the resident expert on vermouth fabrication, though eje also did some experiments in his pursuit of the mysterious "Hercules". Both their blogs offer some insights as well.


Andy Arrington

Journeyman Drinksmith

Twitter--@LoneStarBarman

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I hate to hijack a thread, although I seem to be congenitally disposed to go off on tangents, so tell me if I should post this separately:

I'd be curious to hear whether people think Cardamaro falls within the expansive definition of vermouth being discussed here -- I assume it's technically not vermouth if the ingredients list doesn't include wormwood -- but is anybody subbing it for vermouth, or do you consider it really an amaro?


"The thirst for water is a primitive one. Thirst for wine means culture, and thirst for a cocktail is its highest expression."

Pepe Carvalho, The Buenos Aires Quintet by Manuel Vazquez Montalban

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Yojimbo: "I'd be curious to hear whether people think Cardamaro falls within the expansive definition of vermouth being discussed here -- I assume it's technically not vermouth if the ingredients list doesn't include wormwood -- but is anybody subbing it for vermouth, or do you consider it really an amaro?"

As a "Vino Amaro", Cardamaro probably falls into the same bucket of "Aromatized Wines" which includes Barolo Chinato, not "Fortified and Aromatized Wines", which includes Vermouth.

Check Martin Doudoroff's website: Vermouth 101 for clarification.

On the other hand, in the US, pretty much all "Aromatized" or "Fortified and Aromatized Wines" are legally classified as "Vermouth" by the TTB.

Conversely, as they are on a spirits base, most things like Zucca, Gran Classico, or Campari are legally classified as "Liqueurs" by the TTB.


Edited by eje (log)

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Erik Ellestad

If the ocean was whiskey and I was a duck...

Bernal Heights, SF, CA

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one of the things that used to define "vermouth" was the amount of wine base something had. i guess producers used to dilute their wine bases down with water and rely on botanicals to flavor their product rather than the natural wine base. amerine's annotated bibliography of vermouth has many entries that develop testing methods to prove that a vermouth is of a certain percent natural wine. i think the amount of natural wine base is supposed to be 85%.

vermouth is/was kind of seen as the summation of oenology, distillation, and perfumology.

vermouth, harnessing all those disciplines, uses as many variables as possible. as you move into the territory of being an "aromatized wine", producers use less and less.

by other more useful criteria, products can be compared by their sugar contents. if you can mix it 2:1 and have it enjoyed by most people like most vermouths can, comparing it to vermouth is pretty fare. most amari have too much sugar and not enough contrasting bitterness to be served 2:1.


Edited by bostonapothecary (log)

abstract expressionist beverage compounder

creator of acquired tastes

bostonapothecary.com

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Something called Contratto Vermouth has appeared in Pennsylvania's liquor stores, but it's $30. Yow. I see that there's also an entry for it at Vermouth101. Has anyone had any experience with this product?  I'm always curious about new or newly available vermouths.


Mike

"The mixing of whiskey, bitters, and sugar represents a turning point, as decisive for American drinking habits as the discovery of three-point perspective was for Renaissance painting." -- William Grimes

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Something called Contratto Vermouth has appeared in Pennsylvania's liquor stores, but it's $30. Yow. I see that there's also an entry for it at Vermouth101. Has anyone had any experience with this product?  I'm always curious about new or newly available vermouths.

 

Had a chance to try the Contratto Fernet a couple of days ago and liked it. Hard to know how that might apply to the vermouths but it is one I would consider trying based on my experience with their Fernet.


If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...

~tanstaafl2

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Had a chance to try the Contratto Fernet a couple of days ago and liked it. Hard to know how that might apply to the vermouths but it is one I would consider trying based on my experience with their Fernet.

Interesting.  We don't have the Fernet here--only the vermouth.  I wonder why it's priced so high.


Mike

"The mixing of whiskey, bitters, and sugar represents a turning point, as decisive for American drinking habits as the discovery of three-point perspective was for Renaissance painting." -- William Grimes

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Interesting.  We don't have the Fernet here--only the vermouth.  I wonder why it's priced so high.

 

No clue about that. I didn't even think to ask how much the Fernet was.


If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...

~tanstaafl2

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Not surprised you were thinking slowly! :biggrin:

Oh, I was thinking pretty quick!

It just didn't make much sense in retrospect...

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If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you. This is the principal difference between a dog and a man. ~Mark Twain

Some people are like a Slinky. They are not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you shove them down the stairs...

~tanstaafl2

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The contratto sweet vermouth is wonderful. I'd put it up there with Antica and Cocchi di Torrino. 

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The contratto sweet vermouth is wonderful. I'd put it up there with Antica and Cocchi di Torrino. 

Wow, that's quite an endorsement.  Those are two of the best (if not the top 2).  Thanks for the insight.


Mike

"The mixing of whiskey, bitters, and sugar represents a turning point, as decisive for American drinking habits as the discovery of three-point perspective was for Renaissance painting." -- William Grimes

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I am looking to acquire some quality vermouth for mixed drinks.  I once bought a bottle of vermouth for cooking (no idea what it was) but I did not care for it neat.  As I recall the recipe was for a sweetish Sephardic chicken braise. Or that might have been Marsalla, although I used vermouth for some chicken recipe.  But for drinking, from what I've read Carpano Antica sounds most interesting of what vermouth is available to me.

 

Suggestions?

 

I take quinine on presciption and I think it's vile.  For recreational use I would prefer a vermouth that is bitter from botanicals other than quinine.

 

I have a liter of M&R I was given as a wedding present in 1971 though I don't choose to open it just yet.

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45 (nearly)-year-old vermouth?  Interesting.  Approach it with caution; I suspect it will be completely gone, but I've been surprised by such things before.

 

What you buy really depends on which drinks you want to make.  My preference for a recipe requiring 'sweet vermouth' is Punt e Mes, although this morning I bought some Carpano just for a change.  And their Bianco as well, because it was there and I could.

 

This stuff, if you can find it, is delicious just on its own with a bit of ice and a slice of orange.


Leslie Craven, aka "lesliec"
Host, eG Forumslcraven@egstaff.org

After a good dinner one can forgive anybody, even one's own relatives ~ Oscar Wilde

My eG Foodblog

eGullet Ethics Code signatory

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I have a liter of M&R I was given as a wedding present in 1971 though I don't choose to open it just yet.

 

You could invent a Schrödinger's Martinez with that. Then you wouldn't have to open the bottle.

 

There's a site about vermouths here (http://vermouth101.com/) that might provide inspiration.

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The vermouth101 site is linked earlier in this thread and I had read it, thanks.  And thanks for the mental image...trying hard not to think about infusion of dead cat.

 

My current plan is to try to obtain some Vya dry and the Carpano Antica.  Plus I have a shipment of Foodsaver corks on the way.  Now, if only I had room in the refrigerator.

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The vermouth101 site is linked earlier in this thread and I had read it, thanks.  And thanks for the mental image...trying hard not to think about infusion of dead cat.

 

Or alive. Can't tell. :)

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Kindred Cocktails | Craft + Collect + Concoct + Categorize + Community

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I think Antica is great for aromatic cocktails, and utterly indispensable for Manhattans,  but the vanilla notes can be overwhelming, particularly in sours. I honestly find M&R perfectly servicable for every day use, maybe slightly better than Cinzano. However, Punt e Mes is an utter dream, if only it were availible in my area. 

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@Czerquerhaus - You can get Carpano Antica but not Carpano Punt e Mes? Special order, maybe? 

I may have miscommunicated in post - I have ordered Punt from Drinkupny, and what I meant is it taste like a dream. However, placing these orders is really only in my budget once, maybe twice a year, and Sweet Vermouth is one of the bottles I go through most quickly. Antica recently showed up at my local store, so it is very convenient to purchase, especially as it is in the 375 ml bottles now. 

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@Czerquerhaus - Right. I'm suggesting that if your local store can get Antica, I bet they can get Punt e Mes. Maybe they can special order it for you at no extra cost.


Kindred Cocktails | Craft + Collect + Concoct + Categorize + Community

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I think Antica is great for aromatic cocktails, and utterly indispensable for Manhattans,  but the vanilla notes can be overwhelming, particularly in sours.

I'm curious: what vermouth sours are you drinking? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is the Oriental, and I've never really found it to be anything special.


Matthew Kayahara

Kayahara.ca

@mtkayahara

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The LCBO site claims we can now get Carpano Antica and Carpana Classico (which I know nothing about) as well as Dolin Dry and Dolin Rouge. I was initially excited but I've yet to see any of them in any stores around where I live so the excitement and hope are both fading.


It's kinda like wrestling a gorilla... you don't stop when you're tired, you stop when the gorilla is tired.

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Or alive. Can't tell. :)

Both dead AND alive.

 

I stumbled upon Cocchi Vermouth di Torino by accident. I sought out Cocchi Americano, because I read somewhere that it more closely resembles the original Kina Lillet than does Lillet Blanc. I wanted to taste as much as possible what Ian Fleming had in mind for the Vesper martini. I found a nice little split of Americano at Total Wine, and there next to it was a split of di Torino. I didn't want to break up the set, so I bought both. Absolutely marvelous stuff, both of them.


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