Rare Cooked Pork?

[Overlordofpastry]

Tonight I went out to a bistro style restaurant with my girlfriend and she ordered a jerk pork tenderloin. When it was brought to the table it was rare and the waiter tried convincing us that he had it like that all the time and it was okay to eat. My girlfriend sent it back and wanted it cooked longer and the chef was upset that he had to do this. As far as I know, pork has to be cooked to medium, at the minimum, to avoid any harmful bacteria. I have never seen any chef ever cook pork less than that. Is rare pork a new phenomenon that I somehow missed? Is pork tartar the in-dish right now??? Could someone please fill me in on this!!Thanks.

[PCL]

I'd say write to your local authorities and get the inspectors on to them. No one fancies salmonella, so why should you tolerate a stupid chef?

[davebr]

Medium is perfect, less than that is unacceptable. More from a flavor standpoint than a illness factor. Than again, has anyone had rare neiman ranch pork? I would try it carpaccio style.

[SethG]

With pork the main concern has been trichinosis, which has been pretty much eradicated.

There was a recent thread in which the new emerging consensus was discussed, that consensus being that we can eat pink pork again, and boy does it taste better than than the other kind!

[mrbigjas]

You think so? I don't feel unsafe eating medium-rare pork, but I don't like the texture that much. I like it just pink in the middle, no more.

[beans]

... a stupid chef?

Ouch.

[bleachboy]

I was at a restaurant one time before though and they claimed the pork had been cured, or smoked or something, so I could order it medium rare if I wanted. I didn't want. However, is there perhaps such a process that could be done to pork that would render it safe to eat when rare? (Actually, I agree with SethG.. trichinosis has pretty well been eradicated due to modern feeding practices .. the main reason I would get pork medium is just because I think raw pork sounds like a nasty proposition).

Think "proscuitto"?

[FaustianBargain]

rare pork does sound like a bad idea...you dont want it so rare that it'd leap and oink at you....send it back......its your money afterall...

on a slightly diff note..why is it not advisable to cook veal/milk fed veal rare? i vaguely remember that it had something to do with the meat being of a diff composition because of the youngling's diet..can someone clarify?

[Varmint]

I always cook pork tenderloins to a rare-medium rare temp. Trichinosis was the reason for the well done recommendation, but it has not been a problem in the US pork industry for ages. Bacteria issues are not a typical problem with pork.

Of course, these are my personal thoughts, and if you rely on them and get sick, don't blame me!

[Artichoke]

Eating pork medium rare is no more risky than eating beef or lamb the same way. It is bad enough that the majority of pork in this country has had the fat and thus the flavor bred out of it, but people still cling to the old rules of cooking it to death. The fact is that the pork produced in the U.S. carry's no higher risk than any other protein we produce. Unfortunately, some people have it so ingrained in their head that pork should be cooked well to medium, that they just cannot get past it. If they could, I believe it would open a whole new world of flavor to them.

This is not to say that you should not be able to order something in a restaurant cooked to your liking.

I always eat my pork chops medium rare and preffer a thick double chop. There are few meats more flavorful or juicy on its own than a properly raised, well fattened piece of pork cooked medium rare on the bone. Particularly flavorful are some of the heirloom varities that have started to be bred again, like theTamworth and the Ossabaw.

[AlexP]

A couple weeks ago I ate at a restaurant where they served me a great pork tenderloin, medium rare. I was surprise, but I had met the chef before in his prior job and I did not hesitate. I really enjoyed it. I know that I could never serve pork at that temperature to friends, because they want any of my pork dishes nicely overcooked, completely dry. However, I would not mind eating mine that way.

For the people that like it in the medium rare side, would it be safe with mass-produced pork products from regular supermarkets? Or should I just purchase from a serious butcher after some research? I like to go to butchers, but it is not always an option.

Thanks

Alex

[Laksa]

From CDC's website:

Am I at risk for trichinellosis?

If you eat raw or undercooked meats, particularly bear, pork, wild feline (such as a cougar), fox, dog, wolf, horse, seal, or walrus, you are at risk for trichinellosis.

60 minutes or 20/20 carried a story last year about a woman who ate undercooked infected pork (in a foreign country, not the US), and the worm (might've been the trichinella worm) travelled to her brain and laid eggs there. She died.

[slbunge]

From CDC's website:

Am I at risk for trichinellosis?

If you eat raw or undercooked meats, particularly bear, pork, wild feline (such as a cougar), fox, dog, wolf, horse, seal, or walrus, you are at risk for trichinellosis.

That is a truly bizarre list. I mean to have 'pork' just sort of buried there amongst a bunch of wild animals (or pets) that only a very limited number of folks will ever eat.

Medallions of fox loin anyone?

[andiesenji]

Trichinosis has NOT been totally eliminated. In our office we have seen 5 cases during the past four years of 3 patients with brain lesions from trichina, one also had a bovine tapeworm larva in the brain.

All three had had back or neck injuries on the job and were seen for med/legal evaluations for the defendant insurance companies. All had also had surgeries to the neck or back or both.

All had developed weakness, trembling, difficulty ambulating, numbness and tingling in one of more extremities. This was thought to be due to pressure on the nerves pre-op but was not relieved by surgery and continued to worsen. The problem was that these people had all been under the care of a chiropractor, farmed out for surgery and all the postop care was back to the chiropractor who did not recognize that this was not a nerve root problem.

My boss, an orthopedic surgeon, did the exam and he felt that the symptoms were central nervous system or brain and recommended immediate referral to a neurosurgeon for evaluation. Scans of the brains showed the lesions and treatment arrested the problem but the damage already done cannot be reversed.

Only one of these cases was accountable to home-butchered meats, resident of Bakersfield. The other two were from commercial sources, one patient lived in Whittier, the other in Valencia, California.

The other two cases had trichina cysts in certain muscles with resultant weakness localized to that muscle only, plus a palpable lump. I only recall the one man who happened to live in Lacaster, my home city, and he was a teacher at one of the high schools. I believe the other man was a farm worker from the San Joaquin Valley.

I personally will not eat pork that is less well done than medium. I know that in England they prefer pork pink but I don't think they have as high an incidence of trichina there.

In one of the journals it was estimated that many such brain lesions go undetected or the symptoms are attributed to other causes, senile dementia, Alzheimers, Parkinson's, etc., because the patients are not completely worked up because of inadequate testing in some HMOs. Brain scans are expensive and many HMOs simply will not approve them and most people do not know how to force the issue or even that it is necessary.

[Laksa]

Good news for those who like to eat medium-rare pork. Simply freeze the pork for 20 days at 5 deg F prior to cooking.

From the same website:

• 
  How can I prevent trichinellosis?
  
• Cook meat products until the juices run clear or to an internal temperature of 170 o F.
  
• Freeze pork less than 6 inches thick for 20 days at 5 o F to kill any worms.
  
• Cook wild game meat thoroughly. Freezing wild game meats, unlike freezing pork products, even for long periods of time, may not effectively kill all worms.
  
• Cook all meat fed to pigs or other wild animals.
  
• Do not allow hogs to eat uncooked carcasses of other animals, including rats, which may be infected with trichinellosis.
  
• Clean meat grinders thoroughly if you prepare your own ground meats.
  
• Curing (salting), drying, smoking, or microwaving meat does not consistently kill infective worms.
  

[Laksa]

How safe is it then to eat cured pork products, like salumi, that were never really "cooked"?

[Artichoke]

The CDC list that places pork amongst fox, walrus, horse and wild feline really is bizzare.

As for the CDC being any kind of guide as to how to prepare food, it is fine as long as you have no intention of enjoying it. Sunny side up eggs are forbidden ("cook eggs until they are firm and not runny"). Fish is to be cooked until "it is opaque or white and flaky" (ever have a piece of tuna cooked through? I would sooner eat my mouse pad). My favorite however is the CDC's advice on cooking meat "it is done when it is brown inside."

60 minutes or 20/20 carried a story last year about a woman who ate undercooked infected pork (in a foreign country, not the US), and the worm (might've been the trichinella worm) travelled to her brain and laid eggs there. She died.

There are a lot of countries where I would not eat medium rare pork, then again there are a lot of countries where I would not drink their water or eat their produced un- peeled.

As for this country, our pork supply has been safe for some time now. You are much more likely to see cases of e-coli or salmonella than illness reported due to pork consumption

[viaChgo]

Also, I believe trichinosis is killed at 137 degrees F. (but I'm no expert )

look here

[Laksa]

I agree that the CDC and the USDA are often overly conservative when it comes cooking recommendations.

Good to know that 137 deg F is good enough, but the same website goes on to say 155 or 160 deg offers a better safety margin.

There are a lot of countries where I would not eat medium rare pork, then again there are a lot of countries where I would not drink their water or eat their produced un- peeled.

Would some of these countries be exporters of produce to the US, say?

[Ore]

Hmm...

I like my pork MR. I lik it even more if it is cured, brined or smoked! I served a pork dish at a restaurant for about two months and it sold great.

It was a pork tenderloin wrapped in Prosciutto and roasted in a wood oven. Sliced and set ontop of well cooked cannellini beans. Then an herb salsa and aged balsamic vinegar drizzled over the top.

About 3 plates a week (5 days a week) would come back from about 40 sold so people do like their pork on the medium rare - medium side.

I did not grow up eating pork at all, it was forbidden at home so I only started eating it about five years ago. Those three ways of preparing it above all make it taste so much better than just plain pork!

Also, why do most Americans see pork as being something sooooooo different from other meats. Given that its rep is somewhat crushed from 20 or 30 years back - that worm is pretty much gone, especially if you get quality products.

Ciao,

Ore

[Maison Rustique]

A couple of years ago I went to a (by reputation/review) very good French restaurant. It was highly recommended by my sister's in-laws. When we arrived I was dismayed to see a helth-dept. notice in the front window that they had failed inspection. I questioned our server about that before ordering. He said something about grease on the floor and that it had been corrected.

I ordered one of their specialities--a pork dish. It arrived swimming in blood. There was no way I was going to eat it. I sent it back for further cooking. Apparently I'd been a bit too pesty, because when I got it back it was so tough and over-cooked that it was inedible. I picked at it and ate bread and dessert. Needless to say, I've never gone back and wouldn't.

[saltedgreens]

Various thoughts...

-Sometimes a cured pork item will look more pink on the inside than a similar meat without a cure/brine.

-The "blood" that many refer to is not blood but myoglobin. Myoglobin is different from hemoglobin/blood in that it does not coagulate and well, it is just a different entity alltogether. Much of an animal's blood is removed at slaughter. Myoglobin are the tasty juices that a well done pork contains little of.

-I like shirred eggs, well anything with a runny yolk. I like mid-rare burgers. I like mid-rare pork. I drive with a seat belt on.

[chezcherie]

-Sometimes a cured pork item will look more pink on the inside than a similar meat without a cure/brine

i've noticed this, too. any idea why this is? would like to be armed with an explanation (other than "mmmm, yummy. it's fine.eat it!")

[andiesenji]

Dry cured pork is treated with salt and sodium nitrate. The action of the nitrate on the meat is what causes the pink color.

Brine cured pork is lighter in color, more of a tan or beige with just a hint of pink.

Nitrates have this effect on other meats, sausages, turkey, etc., but it is most pronounced in pork products.

[jayt90]

No one fancies salmonella, so why should you tolerate a stupid chef?

Salmonella can grow in fowl, beef, or potato salad if improperly handled. Why single out pork? If you really mean trichinosis, it is also present in beef, but is at low levels in both animals, and can be killed by freezing at zero degrees for three days.