Go To Embassy

[Tony Finch]

We really enjoyed our anniversary meal at Gary Hollihead's Embassy,near Bond St.,last night.

This is real F-R-A-A-N-S-H  food,not "Modrn European" or whatever.Once I tasted the incredibly rich,creamy,lemony hollandaise for Roast Langoustines Thermidor,I was transported to my earliest,wonderful French restaurant experiences of blagh years ago. Similar with Chicken Rossini and wild venison en croute with creamed spinach and Pommes Anna(totally yum).

Apart from the veggie option for sad souls who won't  eat fish,fowl or meat,this is a place where EVERYTHING on the menu appeals.And its terrific value.The most expensive mains are around £23,and that's for lobster.Others are £16-19,with starters around£8-10 and puds at £5-6. Excellent for a restaurant of this quality in London.

Also there's none of this little-for-under-£30 nonsense with the wine list. It starts at £14 and there's plenty for less than £20.

This is the "upscale" restaurant you've been waiting for.Service was sweet and attentive(although the cruise liner like room was three quarters empty on a Monday night in Jan.)

I'm already booking in again for my wife's birthday next month.My advice is --get in there!

[Simon Majumdar]

Tony

Sounds interesting, but I can't get a number from Information

Can you let me have more details

Best

S

[Tony Finch]

Did have the phone number from a review,but no more.The restaurant is in Old Burlington St,W1.Apparently it used to be the night club Legends so Directory might still have it under that name.

T

[Scottf]

Embassy

29 Burlington Street W1

020 7437 9933

[Simon Majumdar]

Bless you both

I have booked for next week and if it is any good, I will of course take the credit for its discovery.

If it is not, I will hunt you both down like the curs you obviously will be shown to be

S

[Andy Lynes]

Sounds wonderful Tony. I hope Gary sticks around long enough for me to try it out. If you had dinner, I assume that the Embassy is not a members only club, open at Lunch only for the general public, I thought they were going head to head against Marco at the Stork Club?  

[Tony Finch]

Well they let me in for dinner so it sure isn't a club.Actually,Andy,because of  a comment you made re. Gary Hollihead on another thread,I rather unfairly asked our very pleasant waitress what the chef's temper tantrums were like.She looked extremely unsure and embarrased and I was about to tell her that she didn't have to answer when she came out with"well,they're OK.I mean they're  no better or worse than anyone else's."

You've got a good'un there Gary.Give her a pay rise.

[Andy Lynes]

Sounds like he hasn't changed in the 5 years or so since he appeared on that TV programme then. Poor woman, did she avoid your table the rest of the evening?

[Andy Lynes]

I was very interested to read Jay Rayner's review in the Observer today - It'>http://www.observer.co.uk/life/story/0,690...1,00.html.

It

would appear that Mr Hollihead refuses to update his attitude which seems firmly stuck in the late 80's Marco/Nico rut. Food sounds good though!

[Andy Lynes]

Here's another at http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/food_an....=113282

[yvonne johnson]

I don’t have much sympathy for little Christopher in Rayner's Observer piece that Andy links us to. At 13, he should have had something from the menu. If the food is faultless, shouldn’t the wise parent encourage the adolescent giving it a try rather than asking the chef to make something especially for him. (I think it's irrelevant that the pasta the kid wanted accompanied another dish on the menu--the parent was still asking for a special dish.)

Bourdain’s parents had the right approach. Lock the moaning kids in the car until they can eat what everyone else is having.

[Andy Lynes]

I do think kids should be encouraged to try stuff, but after a little to do with my first born over his dinner this evening, I can see the wisdom in letting them have what they want in a party of 10 when it's someone else's birthday celebration. Might help jolly alaong the evening.

The real issue is that Hollihead/The Embassy let the situation get to such a point that 10 people walked out of their dining room. That is just bad management. Would it really have hurt to let the chap have his pasta?

"One lobster with pasta, hold the lobster" as Jack Nicholson might have said.  

[Tony Finch]

I'm not sure how Jay Rayner's unfortunate punter was planning to spend £1000 at Embassy,even on 10 people.

Average cost of 3 courses without wine,service is about £34. Presumably all those youngsters would not be consuming £600 worth of wine.

Perhaps keeping costs down is part of the problem.If customer relations are not Gary Hollihead's strong point ,the restaurant might do better to employ an experienced front of house manager to sort out these kinds of problems.There certainly didn't seem to be anyone with that sort of authority the night I was there,despite the fact that the service was very pleasant.

[Andy Lynes]

One can only imagine the conversation between the waiter and the chef, but obviously the chef got his way. It really is down to the chef to agree to the request, as the waiter can hardly go into the kitchen and dish up the pasta himself.

I was in the kitchen at Bibendum about 5 or so years ago and in the middle of a very busy service, a customer requested wild mushrooms on toast for a starter which was not on the menu. As Bibendum offer about 18 starters, all of which sounded great to me, I could hardly believe what I was hearing. Matthew Harris did not hesitate to produce the dish however, and agree a price before doing so I might add.

He told me that that sort of thing happened all the time and he did his best to meet the customers requirements. Just to illustrate the difference in approach.

[Tony Finch]

While I agree that Embassy/Hollihead could have made more of an effort to accommodate this particular request,I think in general there is a balance to be struck.

A restaurant formulates and posts a menu for all to see and the kitchen is geared to producing that menu.I do not think it's necessarily reasonable for a punter to expect a chef to produce something completely different without any notice whatsoever.I would imagine that most good chefs would be willing to meet most special requests made in advance.There's also an implied insult to the chef's menu(nothing on your menu interests me) and ,in the Bibendum case,if the customer cant find anything s/he wants from a list of 18 starters I think the chef might be entitled to ask why they have attended the restaurant in the first place.

Reasonableness cuts both ways and while I agree with Jay Rayner in this instance,in general,as Nico famously said,the customer is not always right.

[Simon Majumdar]

I have taken this to a thread on general as it is too valid to be lost on the ghetto of the UK board

FWIW, for this time only, I agree with Jay.  There is no balance to be struck.  The custome IS always right.  that doesn't mean they can not turn up, be abusive to the staff, but they can expect ( and demand ) better than they got at The Embassy

It slightly colours my opinion of tomorrows meal but I am sure that will be disapated by a good martini

S

(Edited by Simon Majumdar at 7:38 am on Jan. 14, 2002)

[Tony Finch]

If a restaurant is willing and happy to provide for off menu requests without notice then more power to that restaurant.My point is that punters do not have a right to expect it to do so.The restaurant has stated via the menu what it will cook.You're not being forced to eat there.If you don't want to eat what's on the menu you can eat somewhere else,cant you? Asking for something completely different and then getting all huffy if refused strikes me as the behaviour of a not very secure person.

[Simon Majumdar]

The guy in question does not sound "huffy" or insecure to me.

If you look at it there were 10 people who possibly were going to order 3 courses each, so 30 courses.  One person of the group ( a child and therefore presumably had not had time to research the menu as everyone here seems to demand ) asked if they could "adapt" a dish.  not change, but adapt.  If the person had dietary requirements then they would have done it, so why not now?

You say customers should not expect it.  Why the h*ll not?  Should we just expect a better than 50% chance of making through the meal without vomiting or being robbed or being abused.  No, we should expect the restaurant to value the customer enough to be flexible enough to "adapt" 3% of the order ( which is what this equates to if my maths is right ) for some one who is about to drop a grand in their place

I am still going tomorrow and I hope to have a good meal, but it does make me sick to my stomach when the balance of customer/supplier is kicked out of whack like this

[jayrayner]

I'm not going to say much, apart from a short post here and in general, but Simon's maths is spot on. I made the point in the piece that it was only one member of the party who wnated to go off menu. Sure, if ten poeple came in and attempted to throw the menu out the window then it would be a different matter. THis is a question of degree.

Anyway Simon, I hope you do/did have a great meal.

Jay

PS. Oh, and BTW, you and I agree on loads of things (La Trouvaille, Conrad Gallagher, etc etc). You just can't bring yourself to admit it.

[magnolia]

"One lobster with pasta, hold the lobster" as Jack Nicholson might have said.  

Hmmm...if memory serves, that's not exactly what Jack Nicnolson might have said! Unless we're both thinking of a different film - or unless you're thinking (probably rightly so) that this is a *family* site...so what Jack actually said is too rude to post!

[suzi]

There's also a review by jane moore from the sunday times this week...

http://www.sunday-times.co.uk/article/0,,9016-2002004178,00.html

this might not work because you need to be registered to read it.

i have to say, as a wheat intolerant diner-outer, i find that most chefs are happy to answer questions and "swop things around" for me but i'll think twice about embassy now. which is a shame....

[Andy Lynes]

Five Easy Pieces I believe and I do know the the correct quote, but it just didn't seem to fit somehow.

[Tony Finch]

Hey folks.Simon and Jay Rayner have suddenly fallen in love and are trying to work up a "US/UK split" over this issue over on the general topics board.

Fun though it may be,I don't really detect a split.I've already said that I think Embassy were in the wrong over the laddie's pasta.But Andy said above that at Bibendum off menu requests were made "all the time",and ,presumably,not for children.Presumably this must be the same at other restaurants.

Doesn't anyone think it at least odd that,faced with an exciting and original menu,so many people choose to disdain it and ask for something else?

In fact  if there is a split at all its in the attitude of the punters rather than the chefs.There is a certain strain of British punter who feels uncomfortable and insecure in a decent restaurant and who compensates by behaving as though s/hewere Emperor Claudius,with the restaurant and its staff existing to pander to whatever ludicrous request they deign to make.I've actually been in a restaurant with a chap who said "I never order what's on the menu.Its a matter of principle" When I asked him what principle he meant exactly he replied"the principle that in this situation I GET SERVED".

I suspect only a class-angst ridden Brit woud think like this but I reckon there's a few around.

[yvonne johnson]

Tony: I'm glad it's not just me. This ordering "off the menu" business smacks of self-importance to me.  That doesn't thereby exclude your interpretation, that is, a need to compensate for insecurity.

The "laddie's pasta" made me giggle. Imagine one's claim to fame being the "laddie who didnae get his pasta"?

[Tony Finch]

  The Laddie Who Dinae Get His Pasta

  There was a precocious young masta

  Who refused to have lobster with pasta

  The chef said "F--k,NO!"

  The dad said"Let's GO!

  That Hollihead he's a right basta..."

(Well it is only a first draft)