Kellers "Oysters and Pearls" reach Isle of Wight!

[Lord Michael Lewis]

Tony, It's evident that I am in a tiny and embattled minority of one. And should Blumenthal be credited with doing only as you say, I'd come running over and join you and the rest of the wets.

How about books? If we follow your reasoning the author of 'Crime and Punishment' is Troy 'Badger' Stebbings (translator).

[cabrales]

Tony, It's evident that I am in a tiny and embattled minority of one. And should Blumenthal be credited with doing only as you say, I'd come running over and join you and the rest of the wets.

LML -- I don't think Blumenthal should get credit for dishes, if any, that are strongly predicated on Adria's. (Note I do not have a sufficient understanding of the two chef's cuisine to draw any conclusions regarding derivation.) So I'm with you on the appropriateness of chefs being accorded credit where credit is due, and the converse. However, for reasons I earlier mentioned about the sensitivities of a reviewer suggesting derivation and without looking at any particular factual scenario, I also believe that any derivation insinuations are to be approached with great caution by a reviewer (particularly a professional reviewer).

That leaves the question of who would be vetting any derivation possibilities among chefs, particularly given that perhaps not 99.9%, but a predominant portion, of the dining public would not care about these issues. I wonder whether there are informal mechanisms within the chef community (whether regionally or internationally) that control one chef's ability to draw too much inspiration from another without losing some of his own reputation.  

[Andy Lynes]

This is an eGullet announcement : a possible circular arguement has been identified on this board which may suck users into it's vortex, never to be seen or heard of again. Would you please therefore evacuate this thread immeadiately via the exits and make your way to the "Culinary Rock Groups" or "A Balic" threads or any other safe haven within the eGullet site. Thank you.

[A Balic]

Forgive me for raising this again, but...

Look, this isn't about mere copying, this is about heralding someone as the most innovative British chef for fifty years. And it's about the heralds not knowing or caring that the credit for the innovation is grossly misplaced.

Or to put it into the simplest possible terms: if Rayner and his colleagues had said something like, "Blumenthal pulls off a technically adroit imitation of culinary greats like Adria and Bras..." I would have absolutely nothing to say on the subject. I repeat, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO SAY.

However this isn't the case. Blumenthal is being lauded for something he's not responsible for. And I do mean, lauded, a good example would be the opening papragraph of Rayner's extraordinary 'review' of Blumenthal's new riverside brasserie.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/...4362028,00.html

So, this is not about copying; this is about perspective.

The fact that makes food so exciting -finite ingredients, infinite possiblities- is what makes, for me, the relationship between Blumenthal and the press so depressing. With an infinity of of furrows to plough how can it be acceptable to, not only, plough someone else's but also to reap their crop?

Michael - maybe you could start a new thread on this, as it is an interesting topic. In the food arts, where do you draw the line? Isn't derivation/coping/stealing of recipes/ideas of other chefs all part of the culinary landscape? Should that chefs of the last eighty years credit Escoffier for popularising dining "in the Russian manner"? To be fair, how many truely original thinkers are there in any walk of life?

What do you think?

Oh, I forgive you.

[Andy Lynes]

This may help http://www.fatduck.co.uk/low_temperature_cooking.html .

[M Foie Gras]

Kevin Mangeolles (chef of The George on the Isle of Wight) visited Thomas Keller's The French Laundry on 3 occasions over a two day period last year, paying his own way, to taste and learn.  Ditto for El Bulli.  His personal curiousity means that this is what he does on days off - and, lucky Isle of Wight to reap the results. Jay Rayner may not have appreciated that he was tasting Kevin's version of Keller's oyster/pearl dish when he visited to review for the Observer...chacun a son gout...but, ouch, it certainly seems unfair to be liken the dish to 'snot'.

Three cheers to a chef who dares to experiment, to travel and to test his own limits. The Restaurant at the George benefits from Kevin's expertise. For those wanting to consume a safer path - the same hotel has a brasserie where Kevin stays slightly safer and more traditional.

[lizziee]

Steven, you are absolutely 100% correct to note that "chefs who don't eat out much don't tend to cook very interesting food." I think the problem arises when The George Hotel uses Keller's exact words to describe a dish that has been interpreted. "Oysters and Pearls" is a signature phrase in and of itself.

Jay, in no way is Keller's dish an oyster in a salty broth with grains of tapioca. For the exact recipe see The French Laundry cookbook. The description Keller gives his "Oysters and Pearls" is a sabayon of Pearl Tapioca with Malpeque Oysters and Osetra Caviar. The milk softened tapioca is strained with oyster trimmings and more milk and cream which is then mixed with an oyster infused sabayon which is mixed in with creme fraiche and whipped cream which is placed in an even layer in a gratin dish. The sauce is a reduction of vermouth, oyster juice, shallots, vinegar and butter. The  tapioca mixture is then warmed in a gratin dish, oysters are added, sauce is spooned over all and a scoop of caviar is added for garnish.

I have had this dish numerous times, it is definitely a Keller classic and any resemblance to what Jay has described is pure coincidence. Steven Shaw, I am sorry to disagree with you, but this is truly a wonderful dish.

One interesting aside is that when Keller does a tasting menu for someone in the trade he will do two preparations using the same ingredient. He will often pair "Oysters and Pearls" with oysters in cauliflower panna cotta with beluga caviar. The contrast between the two dishes is striking.

I know Thomas quite well and he is truly a perfectionist. In no way would he serve a dish that he hasn't worked on, perfected, had numerous tastings etc. He does indeed inspect every plate that leaves the kitchen and with the same intensity checks every plate that is returned to the kitchen.

Cabrales as to your question as to how Thomas will handle the French Laundry on both coasts, I have eaten at the French Laundry when Thomas has been in the kitchen and when he has not. He has been able to train and teach his chefs to replicate his dishes with perfection. Thomas is the creator, but he is definitely able to have his creations faithfully replicated.

Another sidetrack note - about 3 months ago Adria came to the States and he and Thomas did a demonstration together at Copia, the new Mondavi Center in Napa. I do not have feedback on that event, however. I use it as one more example of how important it is for chefs to expand their horizons by eating, seeing other chef's food.

As I have noted to Robert Brown, I have been very fortunate to have eaten at the French Laundry for many years and many times. In fact, we are going at the end of May and will eat 2 nights in a row. I have done this before and the extraordinary thing about Thomas is that we will have over 20 different preparations the first night and 20 totally different preparations the second night. Quite a feat.

[Jinmyo]

lizziee, how wonderful. I would very much appreciate any threads you want to start on Thomas Keller on the California or General Boards or wherever.

I have only read of Keller, including spending many days with the cookbook. But I am tremendously impressed not only with the dishes but with how the kitchen functions. The credit always given not only to chefs and people in the front but to suppliers as well brings great credit again to him. I sense a generosity of spirit that has matured over many years.

[jayrayner]

Gosh, M Foie Gras, that sounds like inside information. As I said to you in the real world it's important to be completely upfront here and declare any interests. Knowing that you were, say, PR consultant to the George - and, may I say, the best restaurant PR in Britain (no hyperbole here, chaps; she is the only reliable restaurnat pr in London) - would not detract from the fact that Mangeolles paid for himself on the French laundry trips. It's clearly important that we get our facts right here and don't libel people.

In defence of myself - I never said that his dish tasted of snot; only that I have always thought tapioca, in any preparation, has the consistency of snot. Secondly, i didn't make the comparrison with Keller in my review because I didn't know about it. I was merely commenting on other peoples' info.

[yvonne johnson]

Lizziee: I’m a bit confused by a couple of your comments.  The article by Michael Ruhlman that Steve (S) has cited a couple of times has in it the following:

"What do you think [of the oysters & pearls]?" I ask him[Keller].

"I've never tasted it," he [Keller] says.

"Excuse me?"

"I know that's not a good thing for me to say. But

I know it tastes good. You don't have to stick your hand

in fire to know it's hot."

http://ruhlman.com/articles/1999_10_00_gourmet_keller.htm

Unless, I’m missing something, Keller’s statement appeared irony-free.  You say Keller is a perfectionist and puts dishes through numerous tastings, but it seems those tastings aren’t necessarily performed by him.  I think that's a weird kind of perfectionism.

Second, I don’t follow when you say that any relationship between Keller’s dish and that by the same name served at The George on the Isle of Wight “is pure coincidence.”   From what I can gather, the chef at the George has visited Keller, and created something similar, no?   Namely, a dish with oyster and tapioca, and that it is derived from Keller.  I don't find this coincidental.

[lizziee]

Yvonne,

What I meant by pure coincidence is that the chef from George did an interpretation of Keller's dish which ended up not at all like the original. He absolutely used Keller's dish for inspiration. Coincidence was probably not the best word choice. What I find annoying, however, is that he uses Keller's exact words - "Oysters and Pearls" - a signature menu description - to describe a "bad" (according to the review) rendition. I was trying to come up with a similar situation and the closest that I could think of was someone writing a novel called "A Streetcar Named Desire" and you find that it is about a trolley car.

The article you refer to was written in 1999. I am almost positive that since then Thomas has tasted and refined "Oysters and Pearls." He might not sit down and eat a meal of his creations, but each element must be tasted for seasoning etc. However, when I am there, I will ask him what he meant.

I have often heard chefs say that they can taste a dish in their heads. I wonder if Thomas was conceptualizing the creative process rather than suggesting "why bother taste the food." Honestly, it just doesn't sound right to me.

[yvonne johnson]

Lizziee, Thanks for the clarification.  I'm not sure what to make of someone else using the name "oysters and pearls".  If it was intended to be a homage to Keller (irrespective of whether the dish was successful or not), I can see a reason for allowing it.

I'd be interested in hearing what Keller has to say on the quote in the article. I take your point that Keller might not have meant what he said to be taken literally. However, Ruhlman seems to have taken it that way.