There are too many mediocre restaurants

[FaustianBargain]

Thank you, Stigand...i had something like that in mind..

on another note...couldnt help wondering that there are way too many mediocre restaurants around and very few 'interesting' ones...is this a good thing?

[Suzi Edwards]

lalitha posted this in the thread about concept restaurants. i think it deserves a thread of its own.

i'm thinking about london specifically, but is this true? what are our ratios of interesting to mediocre places like, compared say to the us or france? do we find ourselves suggesting the same places to people over and over again? why is this?

what makes a restaurant interesting?

[Jon Tseng]

No in london

Definitely YES once you get into the provinces

London punches well above its weight in terms of interesting places to eat... the problem is the rest of the country has simply failed to keep up

cheerio

J

[balex]

To be contrarian:

the problem with London is that there are too few boring places to eat: simple places serving well cooked ordinary food, with no innovation.

Everyone wants to be an artist.

[Jon Tseng]

very astute.

[Gary Marshall]

Definitely YES once you get into the provinces

which provincial restaurants have you eaten in recently jon?

gary

[Gavin Convery]

Referring to my 'Tired of London' thread (sorry can't do link) I agree that there are too many mediocre restaurants in London even at the top level (recent trip to Tom Aikens was too blah to write up) and all of the decent ones outside of London are concentrated in one or two places or spread thinly elsewhere.

Thank god I'm off to France on Friday!!

[Carlovski]

There is a place for mediocre restaurants, as long as they are happy with their mediocrity, and charge mediocre prices.

Sometimes you want to be excited, challenged and surprised by food.

Other times you just want something to eat.

The problem is the number of places that don't even reach the dizzy heights of mediocrity.

[Gavin Convery]

Personally, I don't think I want to eat in mediocre restaurants. I'm more than happy with restaurants that are cheap and provide simple food, well done. But I consider those good restaurants within their category and not mediocre.

Unfortunately there are too few good restaurants within this simple category - this is really where the UK falls down - there isn't a grass roots restaurant culture as there is in France. That's why I keep banging on about St Johns B+W.....(but not St. Johns ;-))

[Jon Tseng]

Definitely YES once you get into the provinces

which provincial restaurants have you eaten in recently jon?

gary

they have RESTAURANTS outside of the stockbroker belt ???

[Gary Marshall]

Definitely YES once you get into the provinces

which provincial restaurants have you eaten in recently jon?

gary

they have RESTAURANTS outside of the stockbroker belt ???

my stockbroker's belt holds in many good restaurants

gary

[Andy Lynes]

London punches well above its weight in terms of interesting places to eat...

For a city of 7 million people, I think London does OK for interesting places, but is far from punching above its weight. Paris and New York, maybe but London, no.

[origamicrane]

hey all

I think there are plenty of good places to eat in London in all price categories, but interesting places? I'll assume we mean interesting foodwise.

I think the lack of interesting place is down to the majority of the UK population not having adventurous tastes.

Supply and demand, no demand, no supply.

I know everyone who is on egullet has good/adventurous tastes but the majority of the population doesn't.

Need I remind you all that the UK's most popular dish is chicken tikka masala.

Edited July 19, 2004 by origamicrane (log)

[balex]

But what if you don't want adventure? What if you just want good food?

[Marlyn4k]

Hi

I'm new to this forum and this is my first post ....

I live 30 miles South West of London and find myself making a weekly pilgrimage to the 'Metropolis' for a decent, value for money, gastronomic dinner.

Locally there are a few places (within 12 miles) - Bray for instance; I have eaten at each of The Waterside, Fat Duck, Riverside Brasserie and Jasmin Oriental. On the traditional versus scientific debate I'm on the side of the traditional and a long standing fan of Michel/Alain Roux & Diego Maciaga at The Waterside Inn.

I've also made several visits to L'Ortolan and The Vineyard for lunches (over time both under three different head chefs and felt the latter was over-rated at 8/10 in the GFG due to substandard front of house). On my doorstep is Pennyhill Park (headquarters to the England Rugby Team), which has 5/10 in the GFG but have not got round to a visit.

From a traditional French Gastronomic perspective the provinces are generally lacking; simple economics and the potentially parochial nature of the locals make successful ventures hard to come by...I believe Nico Ladenis was disdainful of the local 'gin and tonic brigade' that sent him packing to London to win his 3 stars.

Restaurants like La Trompette, Chez Bruce, Foliage, Berkeley Square Cafe, 1880 and Rousillon are all worth the journey for me!

[Opson]

Restaurants are a bit like politicians, you get what you deserve.

[Gary Marshall]

I think the lack of interesting place is down to  the majority of the UK population not having adventurous tastes.

Supply and demand, no demand, no supply.

I know everyone who is on egullet has good/adventurous tastes but the majority of the population doesn't.

Need I remind you all that the UK's most popular dish is chicken tikka masala.

hmmm, plenty of sweeping generalisations there.

you may be suprised, i certainly was, check out the anthony's thread. A 24 year old chef works at el bulli,then opens his first restaurant in the middle of leeds, (a big, ungastro provincial town if ever there was one) and what happens?

booked solid six weeks in advance.

who'd have thought there was the need for el bulli in leeds, not me, but the latent demand is there.

Uk's favourite dish chicken tikka massala?

so what? proves nothing. what do you think the national dish/favourite dish of france, italy, spain or wherever is?

I would bet large sums it's not gastronomic but simple comfort food.

people eat out for different reasons, the main reason is often not the food.

Atmosphere, that huge intangible is often why people visit restaurants. Terrence Conran has built an empire on this basis. Money is obviously another consideration a 2 meals for £5 offer would see me walk past, that might be the clincher for a more value conscious punter who couldn't care less it was straight out of the freezer.

You wouldn't choose gordon ramsay rhr for a raucous celebration but might happily go to you local 'mediocre' italian.

mediocre restaurants exist simply because people still eat in them, and will continue to do so.

Granted the UK is behind some of the more established gastronomic nations but there's plenty of medicore restaurants in every country worldwide so its nothing to do with palette and everything to do with a whole load of socio-economic factors that are so diverse it's hardly worth debating

gary

Edited July 20, 2004 by Gary Marshall (log)

[nimzo]

I keep trying to do a bollock foam with lark spit sauce but the bits of bollock keep getting stuck in my siphon. Perhaps Shaun has had the same problem.

[Andy Lynes]

A bollock clogged syphon? That's the last thing you need!

[Adam Balic]

Granted the UK is behind some of the more established gastronomic nations but there's plenty of medicore restaurants in every country worldwide so its nothing to do with palette and everything to do with a whole load of socio-economic factors that are so diverse it's hardly worth debating

Yes, but these restuarants are catering to British tourists.

I think that it is very easy to slag off mediocre British restuarants (there are so many of them after all), but what are the running costs of a British restuarant compared to a similar level place in France/Spain/Italy? Obviously, the wine has to be imported (realistically). And I guess most of the veg would be sourced from overseas (don't know if this makes it more expensive?). What are rentals like in the UK v France/Spain/Italy?

The questions could go on for ever. I agree that by and large, unless you are very lucky or dine at a top level you are likely to go to a mediocre restuarant in the UK, but I'm not sure that it would be easy not to run a mediocre restaurant in the UK.

Getting back to Gary's comments about people booking six weeks in advance to get into Anthony's in Leeds. This is obviously a great thing, but would the same people put in an equivalent amount of effort to go to a less 'fine' restuarant? What motivates diners in the UK compared to France/Spain/Italy etc?

[Winot]

I once read something about the effect of inheritance tax on running restaurants in Francee -v- UK -- something about the French being able to leave their restaurant businesses to their progeny whereas the British are clobbered which means restaurants are less likely to run over generations. No idea how true it is but sounds plausible.

[Jon Tseng]

I once read something about the effect of inheritance tax on running restaurants in Francee -v- UK -- something about the French being able to leave their restaurant businesses to their progeny whereas the British are clobbered which means restaurants are less likely to run over generations. No idea how true it is but sounds plausible.

I think Erickson was spinning the opposite story re vineyards in Noble Rot - the family owned businesses to bordeaux get clobbered by inheritance tax so they have to sell up

In UK its a seven year rule if ur handing over stuff - and the inheritance tax burden tapers down towards the end of the seven years anyway

cheerio

J

[origamicrane]

balex Posted on Jul 19 2004, 12:52 PM

But what if you don't want adventure? What if you just want good food?

there lots of good places to eat in and outside of London, just stick a post up for recommendations and you will be flooded with good suggestions.

What i am talking about is that a restaurant that always serves the same thing does become mediocre for me good cooking can be mediocre if it is boring.

here's an example of what i mean

say you are on holiday you usually want to try the local dishes as they are new and unfamiliar to you. The food might not be good, it might even be dangerous but it will be interesting as such it doesn;t become mediocre in your eyes and i would like to sometimes walk into a restaurant and see a dish or two that i have never seen before in a london restaurant.

on to Gary's post

Gary Marshall Posted on Jul 20 2004, 01:05 AM

Granted the UK is behind some of the more established gastronomic nations but there's plenty of medicore restaurants in every country worldwide so its nothing to do with palette and everything to do with a whole load of socio-economic factors that are so diverse it's hardly worth debating 

I agree, egullet is just a spoilt foodie forum ( and a very good and spoilt one it is )

and dissecting the whys and wherefores of the uk social consciousness is out of our err.... remit.

I'm not saying that the UK populace has bad taste, heck! no!

The uk taste buds have improved in leaps and bounds over the last 30 years

what i am saying is that the UK populace is still reserved and conservative when it

comes to trying new foods.

As such the variety and range of restaurant serving more new and interesting food is limited.

There is good food out there, there is bad food out there, but when was the last time you saw a dish that you never seen before in London?

[Gary Marshall]

when was the last time you saw a dish that you never seen before in London?

all the action's in the provinces.

specifically hibiscus in ludlow and anthony's in leeds from my experience.

cheers

gary

[origamicrane]

what i have to go out of zone 1?!