expert advice needed: salmon for nigiri

[essvee]

Hi all. Salmon (sake) is my fave sashimi. I'm making sushi Saturday, and although I've done some research, including a search here, I still can't decide whether or not to use fresh salmon.

I live in the Bay Area, and my fishmonger will get me some wild king salmon fresh off the boat. I read the UC Davis site, and others, and I can't make out whether there are any other dangers besides the big ol' nematodes, which I've only seen in swordfish anyway.

Do the luxe sushi joints do it fresh? I know tuna is generally flash-frozen. Will that creamy sake texture be affected if I use frozen? Thanking you.

[agbaber]

I'm fairly certain that (ESPECIALLY with salmon), the fish needs to be frozen (ideally, superfrozen, like they do at Masa, and other really high end sushi joints), to eliminate the parasites and such.

I have no idea where you can get stuff superfrozen, but evidently its damn near impossible to tell the difference between the two (superfrozen vs fresh), except for the whole "safe-to-eat" thing.

I believe that all sushi that is served in sushi bars is "supposed" to be frozen at some point.

Does this fishmonger freeze the fish right after being caught (most do), or is it a small boat that comes in everyday, and only keeps them on ice?

Better off waiting for an experts response, since I'm not 100% sure.

Edited July 14, 2004 by agbaber (log)

[sara]

I've read more on this with regard to making ceviche than making sushi, but I believe it's similar-- it's best if you put the fresh salmon in the freezer for an hour before slicing it. Safety-wise, that's the smart thing to do. That said, I used some fresh alaskan salmon last week for ceviche and didn't freeze it first--and everything was fine. Guillermo Pernot's book Ceviche has plenty of tips in this arena.

[paul o' vendange]

I believe that in order to kill parasites, you will need to freeze at sub zero temps for a considerable time. Without other science behind it, I have read somewhere, I think it's in James Peterson's Fish & Shellfish, that he recommends 0F or colder for at least 24 hours.

Paul

[Hiroyuki]

Have you checked this out?

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...41885&hl=salmon

[chefdg]

Uh, maybe I have been under a rock lately, but I wouldn't recommend freezing any fish that you want to serve. Especially not sushi style, and remember sushi is not always raw, its just rolled with rice and seaweed. Just get the fish in whole, and handle the fillets after you cut them off, correctly.

[paul o' vendange]

Sushi is many things - sashimi is essentially a raw piece of fish, in its most pristine form, served on a small brick of rice, or plain.

Any sushi restaurant or any restaurant using raw fish that I have worked in, serves the fish after a freezing regimen.

Paul

[irodguy]

Even wild Salmon must be frozen first. If not you raise a high rise of parasites.

Are you having a sushi party or just serving "home" Sushi? If you are doing a party you need to keep the fish on ice.

When catering Sushi parties or doing my own, I often used cooked fish, chicken etc. When showing people how to "play" with their food you need items that can "take the heat"

[essvee]

Thanks all for your prompt replies and advice.

[Sam Salmon]

I'm a little late to this party but I have been catching/killing/eating raw Salmon for over 2 decades now-no probs/none/not ever.

Most people worry too much it's a fact.

[paul o' vendange]

My dog's been playing on the freeway now for over 5 years, and so far he hasn't been hit. Guess we'll keep letting him play.

From the FDA:

Parasites consumed in uncooked, or undercooked, unfrozen seafood can present a human health hazard. Some products that have been implicated in human infection are ... salmon, ... sushi, sashimi ... Freezing (-20º C [-4º F] for 7 days or -35º C [-31º F] for 15 hrs) of fish intended for raw consumption eliminates the possibility of human infection. This is recommended in the retail food protection manual and in the Food Code...

Paul

[Sam Salmon]

In addition to Raw Salmon (both Sockeye and Spring) I regularly (usually weekly) consume Raw Albacore Tuna, Raw Yellowtail, Raw Yellowfin Tuna, Raw Scallops, Raw Abalone, Raw Shrimp, Raw Tai Snapper and whatever else is on the daily specials menu.

I never invite anal bureaucrats from foreign countries along though-being Canadian I'm just too polite to tell them what I really think.

[essvee]

Update: I served and ate it raw. It was wicked good!

[jayt90]

Even wild Salmon must be frozen first.  If not you raise a high rise of parasites. 

What parasites, in which fishes, oceans, lakes, or streams have these devils?

It looks like a visit to a fishmonger is similar to going to drug dealer. If I eat the fresh fish raw, or cook it to 130 F., I might be doomed!

[paul o' vendange]

sushi in japan - parasitic infestations

Excerpts:

"At first glance it could be a fire hose, neatly accordioned behind a panel of glass and mounted on a wall. As the wall is in a museum devoted wholly to parasites, however, you have the unsettling feeling that upon closer inspection it will turn out not be a piece of safety equipment.

"Diphyllobothrium," says Shunya Kamegai cheerfully. Kamegai, a parasitologist, is the director of the Meguro Parasitological Museum in Tokyo. Diphyllobothrium is a tapeworm, in this case a 24-foot-long tapeworm. Kamegai speaks English, but you almost wish he didn't. Then you wouldn't know this tapeworm lived in a 40-year-old sushi eater. You wouldn't know what the man's doctor had to do to evict the specimen in one long museum-quality piece. You wouldn't know that it grew 20 centimeters a day in the man's belly. "Grew this big in two months after eating sushi," says Kamegai. You nod, silently calculating the hours that have elapsed since you ate raw fish at a cheap Tokyo sushi bar.

Each year some 2,000 Japanese fall ill from worms in raw fish. In the United States doctors don't have to report those kinds of illnesses to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, so statistics aren't available...

Kamegai himself was a statistic. But it wasn't a tapeworm that made him sick. What caused Kamegai's illness, indeed what causes most illnesses traced to worms in raw fish, was a less showy organism. Kamegai steps over to the museum's souvenir shop and picks up a key chain featuring a matchbook-size slab of Lucite. Inside it, half an inch long and delicate as corn silk, is a worm of the species Anisakis simplex.

In both Japan and the United States, far more people get ill from fish fixed at home than from fish served in sushi restaurants. (See safety tips for preparing raw fish). According to Robert Price, a seafood microbiologist at the University of California at Davis, most of California's cases of anisakiasis have been traced to rockfish (a.k.a. rock cod or snapper) that people catch themselves and make into ceviche. (The tart lime juice marinade "cooks" the raw fish but doesn't seem to bother the worms.) ...

The sushi masters

For as long as there has been sushi, there have been sushi masters: men who teach other men about fish... The first secret of the masters can be found inside a hulking metal freezer in the corner. It is this: With few exceptions, the sushi served at the average restaurant has been frozen. This is a good thing. Freezing kills parasites. In many cases the fish is frozen right on the deep-sea fishing boats to keep it from spoiling on the lengthy return voyage. The same is true in the States, though it's not a requirement. "The transport of fresh fish," says Peter Schantz of the CDC's division of parasitic diseases, "is such that the most practical way to do it is to freeze it."

Frozen sushi? Yoshizaki nods. He says it's hard to tell the difference between fresh raw fish and fresh-frozen. As long as it's frozen right away, he insists, the taste is the same As for texture, he continues, mushy fish is caused by poor freezing practices, not freezing per se. A fillet shouldn't be left in the freezer longer than two weeks. "Freezer burn," he says. "Fish become watery. No good." Thawing in hot water is another no-no. "Defrost too fast. Fish get soft."

Not much to worry about

Even if freezing didn't do such a good job of deep-sixing parasites, only a few fish would present any real problems. Tuna, for instance, live too far from land to mingle with seals and pick up many worms. Salmon and rockfish are another story, says Ann Adams, a parasitologist at the Food and Drug Administration's seafood products research center in Bothell, Washington. In Adam's 1994 study of sushi in Seattle, 10 percent of the salmon pieces checked had anisakids -- usually just one, but sometimes two or three. Among the rockfish pieces, only one out of 30 samples was inhabited. On a happier note, all but one of these worms were dead or dying -- not really a surprise since they'd been frozen stiff.

On the whole, American sushi is very safe. People are far more likely to get sick after eating a rare burger, pink chicken, or raw oyster shooters. And the fish is getting safer still. Thanks to a new FDA program, all fish processors (including foreign exporters, who supply two-thirds of our fish) will have to undergo detailed training in the safe handling of seafood. If parasites are identified as a hazard in a particular species and one of its intended uses is sushi, the fish must be frozen.

Your choice - but as I'm interested in staying in business and wish to serve healthful food, I'll freeze the hell out of my carpaccio/cold smokes/gravlax.

Paul

Edited July 21, 2004 by paul o' vendange (log)

[xiaobao12]

Thank you for posting that very informative article Paul.

So....I just bought a beautiful fillet of salmon from Costco - can I freeze it for 7 days in my regular fridge and eat it raw?

BTW, my first post but I have been an avid reader of this wonderful website. =)

Edited November 25, 2009 by xiaobao12 (log)

[budrichard]

I've been purchasing fish for sushi/sashimi and doing my own preps for 30 years.

I only purchase fish from a supplier that deals in sushi quality fish such as Browne Trading or locally Mitsuwa. The fish that has gone through these purveyors has been examined for parasites and if required as for salmon frozen. Most 'fresh' fish marketed is NOT suitable for raw consumption no matter what you do to it. The fish of some specices does not always have to frozen but it must be inspected. I was just at Mitsuwa where a 400#+ fresh bluefin was cut up and sold in a couple of hours. I purchased Akami, chu-toro and Toro cuts. I must say that the agreement was universal that it was ome of the best bluefin we have ever had including that from Browne Trading which I know is fresh. I have had tuna and other fish at Japanese sushi bars in the USA where the chefs know where each fish came from and are explicit as to what is fresh and frozen. These chefs, I would trust but the avreage person or purveyor, I would not trust. So far, no problems.-Dick

[Shalmanese]

The dirty secret is that fishmongers get their fish in frozen and then defrost it for sale. Instead of buying the defrosted fish and then refreezing it, simply ask the fishmonger if they have some still frozen ones in the back which you can defrost at your leisure back home.

Alternatively, shop at somewhere like Trader Joes which sells all of their fish frozen.

Edited November 26, 2009 by Shalmanese (log)