Cooking Octopus

[paul mitchell]

Chef just asked me to put this one out to all the brilliant minds of egullet - we have got in a 20 pound octopus and he knows that he's suposed to put corks in the cooking broth but doesn't know what the tradition of this is - I think he is just bullshitting me to tarnish my egullet reputation and prowess but he's the boss and what he says, I do.

[Gifted Gourmet]

long thread which contains numerous postings on corks and octopi

one such Italian use of corks

and this seems quite timely on the topic:

This is from The Frugal Gourmet, he says his cousin puts 4 wine corks in the boiling water for the octopus>>>>

he doesn't know why but it is now a

tradition. I thought that funny and also

always put 4 wine corks in the water. The

octopus always turns out great.

Edited July 12, 2004 by Gifted Gourmet (log)

[KatieLoeb]

Little did I know what I'd started with the inncoent query about food superstitions...

[tissue]

Some japanese chefs pound the octopus to soften it.

[chefdg]

Nobody knows.

[Ore]

I second both the JAPANESE POUNDING and the corks - why not add a cork to the pot - what else are you gonna do with it - make a coffee table!!??!!

For the pounding - a heavy chef knife will do - or one of those cool fish weights (meat tenderizers) - just start beating it!!! (gently!!! - dont want it to start leaking everywhere!!! - 20 pounds...thats a big one!)

Ore

[arjay]

Who would want to eat a damned octopus?

Just eat the corks.

[slkinsey]

I found Mario Batali's post here interesting with respect to using a cork to cook 'puss:

we put the octo in a big pot with a couple of chilis, 2 cloves garlic and a cork, and no water... and pop it into a 350 oven for a hour covered and then remove it and let it cool... we  then portion it, chill it and then grill it to order on the hot spot of the grill

The emphasis is mine. Now, obviously a guy like Mario isn't going to use a cork in his restaurant unless he feels like it is doing some good. Yet, for the life of me, I can't imagine how it could effect the texture of the octopus without water.

[fresco]

Cork, being bark, contains tannins, which can break down or tenderize proteins. So this makes sense.

Sam, I'd guess that an octopus would probably exude a lot of liquid, which would then activate the tannins in the cork.

[BettyK]

Michael Bonancini on 'Cook like a Chef' (CDN FoodTv) said that cork contains some enzymes that tenderize octopus.

[Adam Balic]

Cork, being bark, contains tannins, which can break down or tenderize proteins. So this makes sense.

Sam, I'd guess that an octopus would probably exude a lot of liquid, which would then activate the tannins in the cork.

The major action of tannins on protein is to aggregate and even cross-link them. This is how you produce leather from animal hides during the tanning process. If tannin is involved in the cooking process of the octopus the logical effect would be for them to get tougher, not more tender.

This cork thing frustrates me, I can see logical reason why it would effect the tenderness of a octopus. Many cultures eat octopus, but to date the only references I have seen to the cork thing are Italian and Croatian. Are the Japanese so stupid that they wouldn't have worked such a system out? The Greeks? If the effect of the cork is real, why don't people use this method to tenderise tougher cuts of meat meat during braising?

I suspect that putting a cork with a cooking octopus does result in a tender octopus. But, I also think that octopus would end up tender irrespective of the presence of a cork or not. It's like putting a teaspoon in a champagne bottle to 'keep the fizz in'. Yes, overnight you will have fizz left in the bottle, but you would have the same level of fizz with or without the spoon.

Still it would be interesting to find out. It would be a very interesting to compare say five octopi independently cooked with and without the corks. Another group could use synthentic corks as a control...

Until such an experiment is done, the octopus and cork thing is firmly in the realm cooking myth.

[RSincere]

I second both the JAPANESE POUNDING and the corks - why not add a cork to the pot - what else are you gonna do with it - make a coffee table!!??!!

Martha Stewart makes a kick-ass bulletin board out of wine corks.

I'm having a lot of fun with the mental image of someone beating up a dead octopus.

[fresco]

Cork, being bark, contains tannins, which can break down or tenderize proteins. So this makes sense.

Sam, I'd guess that an octopus would probably exude a lot of liquid, which would then activate the tannins in the cork.

The major action of tannins on protein is to aggregate and even cross-link them. This is how you produce leather from animal hides during the tanning process. If tannin is involved in the cooking process of the octopus the logical effect would be for them to get tougher, not more tender.

This cork thing frustrates me, I can see logical reason why it would effect the tenderness of a octopus. Many cultures eat octopus, but to date the only references I have seen to the cork thing are Italian and Croatian. Are the Japanese so stupid that they wouldn't have worked such a system out? The Greeks? If the effect of the cork is real, why don't people use this method to tenderise tougher cuts of meat meat during braising?

I suspect that putting a cork with a cooking octopus does result in a tender octopus. But, I also think that octopus would end up tender irrespective of the presence of a cork or not. It's like putting a teaspoon in a champagne bottle to 'keep the fizz in'. Yes, overnight you will have fizz left in the bottle, but you would have the same level of fizz with or without the spoon.

Still it would be interesting to find out. It would be a very interesting to compare say five octopi independently cooked with and without the corks. Another group could use synthentic corks as a control...

Until such an experiment is done, the octopus and cork thing is firmly in the realm cooking myth.

Thanks for volunteering, Adam. I'll look forward to hearing the results. Heroic of you--10 is a shitload of octopus to consume.

[fifi]

I'm having a lot of fun with the mental image of someone beating up a dead octopus.

Even more fun is the mental image of someone beating up a live octopus. Especially a 10 pounder.

I have searched my usual food science suspects and can't find anything to add.

Yep... tannins would toughen protein. Besides, there couldn't be enough of anything in a couple of corks in a big pot that should make a difference.

Someone mentioned enzymes. Nope. Cork is dead. It is mainly the dead cell walls (cellulose) and the tannins and lignins left from when it was alive. Besides, cooking temperatures would inactivate enzymes.

And I will swear that I saw or read about a side by side comparison some years ago and I can't remember where, or (most annoyingly) what the outcome was.

[Adam Balic]

Sadly Scotland is not a big octopus consuming country, consequently I am unable to obtain fresh octopus from the local fishmongers. So I leave the task to others. Could be fun actually, imagine: Invite the new neigbours over to watch "Aliens I, II, IV" (not II, it's shit), beers then serve up ten octopus. The will be so scared of you that they will proberly bother you again.

On the other hand in Melbourne I did cook a 'shitload' of "baby" (actually they are full grown) octopus and the occasional 'mega-size' one. No corks though so I can't give you any tenderness data.

[johnnyd]

I happened ask our esteemed guest, Mario Batali, the exact same question last week.

He says the trick works, but didn't come up with a source or why, just do it!

[KatieLoeb]

The only connection that's consistent is that the cultures that put the cork in the pot with the cephalopods are all wine producing regions.

[Adam Balic]

The Greeks have been producing wine for some time and corks as a closure for bottles is ~<200 years old. It would have been an expensive way to cook octopus if you had to take the cork bung out of a barrel.

[Dan Ryan]

Of course, a screwcap would guarantee that your octopus was untainted.

[Abra]

My octopus always comes out tender, and I never use a cork. I think corking probably falls into the "first, do no harm" category. And yes, octopus does exude an amazing amount of liquid, so the no water thing sounds interesting and likely to work. I'll have to give that one a try.

[Adam Balic]

And if it is enzymes in the cork are responsible as most will be heat labile, to truely get the most tender octopus, don't cook it at all, just mix it with the corks and leave it for a few hours. Truely an experience that your guests will not forget.

Can't find any evidence of the Portuguese cooking octopus (third highest landed "fish" in Portugal) with corks (supplies 40% of the worlds corks).

Edited July 13, 2004 by Adam Balic (log)

[DRColby]

I don't know about te corks but I did learn a little bit about octopus on a trip to Alaska.

One night in our crab pots we had two octopus (or is it octopi?) that the drunken camp cook said were, "very nice."

They were very shy, tough to get in the live-tank, and really seemed to have far more personality than most living things I have considered eating.

Anyhow cook, he liked to consider himself a chef, put the octopus in a pot of boiling water with lots of hot spices and tobassco, cooked it most of the afternoon, drank some more, and served it up for super, calling it "Cajun Octopus."

I can tell you this: he should have put in some corksand we should have dined on them instead.

dave

[johnnyd]

I spent most of my teen years in the Algarve and we had Octopus at least twice a week. Never saw a cork go in the pot and I was in the kitchen a lot. We stuffed the little guys mostly...

... And all those cork trees, sheesh! The mystery deepens...

[emannths]

  One night in our crab pots we had two octopus (or is it octopi?) that the drunken camp cook said were, "very nice."

Well, octopus is a Greek word (octo = eight, pus (aka pod) = foot), so the Latin pluralization "octopi" is not correct from that standpoint. If you're following Greek convention, it should be octopodes (or, if you're Japanese, octopo-desu ). But since we speak English and not Greek, it could probably be argued that octopi is just as correct as octopodes when we say it.

[Kevin72]

I found Mario Batali's post here interesting with respect to using a cork to cook 'puss:

we put the octo in a big pot with a couple of chilis, 2 cloves garlic and a cork, and no water... and pop it into a 350 oven for a hour covered and then remove it and let it cool... we  then portion it, chill it and then grill it to order on the hot spot of the grill

The emphasis is mine. Now, obviously a guy like Mario isn't going to use a cork in his restaurant unless he feels like it is doing some good. Yet, for the life of me, I can't imagine how it could effect the texture of the octopus without water.

I caught that too. It's how he does it on his show, too.