Congrats to Team USA - WPTC

[duckduck]

Keegan and Jennifer tried to keep up with explaining the desserts and who it was coming from when they could get a camera shot of it up but it was a little chaotic and if you we're out with the judges, you couldn't listen to them. I'd like to see a special issue of Pastry Arts with everything in it. I'm feeling the need for a french dictionary myself Fern. Entremet is basically cake. Entremet glace is ice cream cake and petit gateaux is small cakes. Bon bons are chocolate, petit fours are the bites size cakes and then chocolate and sugar showpiece. Are those all the categories? They aren't about flavors like the coupe de monde where it was mentioned that the cake is chocolate. At the WPTC the categories were really basic and open.

[lepatissier]

As far as the specifics for each "aspect" of the judging, there were specifics in terms of flavors for things such as the petit gateaux . .

Petit Gateaux

Each team must prepare 3 different types of petits gateaux following these guidelines:

One fruit petit gateau

One chocolate petit gateau

One free choice petit gateau

and while the Entremet Glace (Frozen) did have free range of flavors, it had to include . . .

Ice cream

Sorbet

A non-machine spun frozen component (e.g.: frozen parfait)

Cake component (meringue, biscuit, sponge, etc.)

For Bonbons, they had to have . .

1 must be hand dipped

1 must be a molded ganache

1 must be a non chocolate filling

I think the rest of the items were all free choice in terms of flavor and components . . .

[bripastryguy]

Man am I speachless and gasping for breath. I only hope that I may make some thing close to what I have seen photographed here........Boy do I have a million ideas running through my head right now.

Edited July 23, 2004 by bripastryguy (log)

[kyototaco]

This is kind of strange, check out the scores at www.pastrychampionship.com They have changed since last week. It now shows that the U.S. team won by only 1 point. It also shows the points and how they were awarded from each judge. You can clearly see that most of the judges were not impartial. The german judges seem to be the most questionable, while Maury seemd to be one of the more fair ones. Look at it long and close and things will start popping up.

[nightscotsman]

Here are the last of my photos: the showpieces.

Chocolate - Australia

Sugar and Pastillage - Australia

Chocolate - Belgium (first place)

Pastillage - Belgium

Sugar - Belgium

Chocolate - France

Sugar and Pastillage - France

Showpieces - Germany

Chocolate - Japan

Pastillage - Japan

Sugar - Japan

Chocolate - Netherlands

Sugar - Netherlands

Chocolate - Poland

Sugar - Poland

Showpieces - Singapore

Chocolate - South Korea

Pastillage - South Korea

Sugar - South Korea (first place)

Showpieces - Switzerland

Chocolate and Pastillage - Taiwan

Sugar - Taiwan

Chocolate - USA

Sugar - USA

[PastryBoy]

Simply amazing! Exquisite photos Neil. Thanks for taking time out of your busy schedule to post pics for those of us who couldn't be there.

cheers!

[hillvalley]

There's a pool of drool on my keyboard.

I've got an ameture question: Does anyone get to eat all this when the judging is over?

[lepatissier]

Hey Neil!

Thanks so much for doing all of that . . really appreciate it! You got nice pics . .

BTW, off topic, work has started well, pretty boring right now, theres not much to do so Ive been helping you guys out a bunch and helping buffet a lot too . .its just too bad I dont see you in the kitchen! Anyway, take care . . .

[confiseur]

Good evening everyone........

Firstly thank you for putting up the pictures on the forum. This is great for people like me who would have loved to have come to Vegas but where unfortunately not able due to work commitments.

Reading the comments and hearing from a friend who competed in Vegas it seems the French and Belgians were not exactly happy about the judges final decision. Was this a case of the French throwing there rattle out of the pram and simply sour grapes? or was there actually a case to answer?

Also,somewhat more contentiously the winning 'USA' team seemed to consist of French pastry chefs anyway...... also if my memory serves me correctly the previous 'US' team who won also contained just French pastry chefs hmm... I can also remember that a top Swiss pastry chef was a winner of the Coupe du Monde......

I have been reading that the US contains a lot of native talent.....which I for one am convinced it does and the US is certainly big enough to find 3 top pastry chefs so why are not US born citizens representating the States?

Sorry folks but the argument that these guys live and pay taxes in the States is a pretty weak one or does an American who lives in China become Chinese? I do not think so.

We are probably all in agreement that French pastry chefs are the worlds best at the moment as in years gone by the Swiss were,however I think that for a proper standing of where US pastry stands it is much better to come last with your own people than have a team of mercenarys.If you can obtain Journal de Patissier in August these guys-great pastry chefs that they are-no question, will not be trumpeting there allegiance to the stars and stripes.

The situation as such reminds me of the situation in the 80s when US sprinters dominated the world scene-practically every European country was getting 'there' American athelete on there own team-fortunately this is not longer possible.

When are the powers-that-be going to do the same or should every team stock up with whoever they want?........but they won the trials you cry...... again poor argument, to go back to atheletics anybody can compete in trials and the first 3 nationals go to the games and if they are 6th,7th and 8th then so be it they are the ones.

Before any over patriotic flag waver or Gallic colleague starts bleating racist.....I have spent the majority of my life out of my native country and have many dear friends of all nationalities.

[tan319]

i think you make a good arguement for team representation.

Unfortunately, until enough people feel the same and make their unhappiness with the situation known, it will not only be a case of the organizers saying "sour grapes", (one in particular) but it is a case of the "only game in town".

And who is going to argue with that?

People surely aren't going to stick their necks out for a principle.

That said, it's still hard for me to accept that these French guys on the U.S. team ( and note that Chris Hamner was on the US team this year) are doing it all for France.

It's a complex issue, at least for me.

But I dig where you're coming from!

[confiseur]

Hello Tan ........

Nice to kick off with an intelligent reply!.....You are possibly right that they are not doing it just for France......I am not convinced however that they are doing it just for the US either.

As for the ....only game in town....I am also not convinced, we now have 3 so called world championships what with the Coupe du Monde and the UIPC (mainly European only) world championship.

The danger is ,if they are not seen to be correct in all procedures there will be a prolifereration and therefore dilution of such titles much as there is in boxing with 4-5 'champions' at all weight levels.

My money was on Vegas to come out on top but after the recent events, and I am by no means the only pastry professional who have voiced there misgivings about the make up of various teams I am now not so sure.

This nettle will have to be grasped otherwise I can certainly envisage other competing competitions will be set up to the detriment of all.

[tan319]

I meant the only game in town in the US.

[nightscotsman]

I'm willing to bet that at least part of the issue is that the French team was made up entirely of MOF's and the Belgian team had two MOFs, while the US team had none (and one member who wasn't even born in France). There's a big feeling of entitlement that goes with those three little letters, and I'm sure it really bugged the crap out of them that they didn't win.

There were also some rumblings that Jean Philippe Maury dominated and bullied the other judges into giving it to his hand-picked US team, and there were alot of upset MOFs calling the office from France after the show. I know that he has a very strong personality, but I have a hard time believing one person could have that much influence, especially with Jacque Torres overseeing the judging.

Yes, the Belgian chocolate piece was amazing and seemed flawless (and they did win a medal for it), but 40% of the score was for degustation, and I don't think anybody but the judges who tasted can really know who came out on top there. You just can't look at a cake or plated dessert and know if it tastes good.

Another thing to keep in mind is that even before the competition started, the judges found some items in the French kitchen that violated the rules (some ingredients mixed ahead of time, I believe). They were allowed to go ahead and use the stuff, but points were deducted because of it.

[confiseur]

Perhaps its just getting all too complicated...........

However a good start would be for the Belgians only to represent Belgium, French to represent France, Americans to represent the US etc etc........

Shock-horror-what an outrageous suggestion I hear you say ,and I realise in certain quarters this will be seen on a par as marrying your sister, but doesnt it seem to have a small amount of logic?

There certainly seems to be a hired-gun element about this contest and there are certain vested interests-however with big money prizes and plenty of perceived national prestige at stake no one should be suprised at the political games going on.

[Wendy DeBord]

Well I share similar thoughts to yours Confiseur and have posted them in these two threads. http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...7257entry567257

I can't seem to find the second thread which I mentioned in the thread link I did find. Anyone recall it?

[confiseur]

Wendy...........

I coudnt have put it better myself.......

Oh and as as I am neither French nor American and have therefore no axe to grind one way or the other I find it is just comical that the last 2 'USA' winning teams comprised the grand total of 1 American.

[Steve Klc]

The danger is ,if they are not seen to be correct in all procedures there will be a prolifereration and therefore dilution of such titles much as there is in boxing with 4-5 'champions' at all weight levels.

Welcome, as well, confiseur, but there already is such a dilution in the world at large--because many of the best and/or most interesting pastry chefs don't "compete" just like the best chefs don't compete--they don't have to or choose not to. For them, competition is in the marketplace and their ideas, creativity and work speaks for them. Regardless of what anyone might feel about how the event is run--and really, you have to take your hat off to Michael Schneider and Norman Love for what they have created and the sponsorship dollars they have attracted--this has largely become an event for hotel professionals or pastry chefs doing French-leaning work, NOT, in general, for the more globally-aware restaurant pastry chef doing creative interesting personal work or the pastry chef who doesn't embrace the formal traditional MOF French pastry vision but instead pursues something rather more personal, a la Conticini or Spanish or American or anything rustic/traditional--all of these kinds of personal thinkers and doers are left out.

At least a few of us here on eG have gone on record saying this event is too French, that the "American" teams have been too French, and that it is inherently biased against those who work or think outside the French box. The foreign teams and competitors who come here, and the Americans who compete in the off-years essentially accept going in they have to work inside the box. (Realize at this point that I think both Herme and Conticini work outside the French box.) But I also think being "too French" is perfectly OK--this is exactly who many of these pastry chefs are--just call it as you see it. And what we've tried to stress on eG is that you should be able to question and criticize the structure or format of any event or title like the MOF--to engage it and each other respectfully and even to disagree--to also assess its role or impact--without it being seen as commenting critically about the work or the competitors themselves--because this work is really impressive and the skills on display are impressive. This is fine work and FINE picture-taking--thank you all for sharing. It's just that it is of a certain similar "French modern" style--a style promulgated by certain French pastry chefs-turned-judges that to my eyes and level of awareness hasn't been inclusive enough. That's why I call this a "French" event which just happens to be held in America, and that's why I think the other French-dominated world competitions are already diluting themselves to a certain extent and diminishing their impact: there are many talented artistic people no longer willing to see themselves in that scheme, fitting into that box. No language has been changed by this competition--the work is still of a certain school, next year's winners will still be of this school, etc. The inherent flaw of this event is much the same as the flaw of the magazine Pastry Art & Design--a little too behind the times, the same old same old holding on to something because the favored chefs profiled in the magazine (and in the competition) are still holding on to it, largely out of touch with what's really appealing and really happening around the world, they're both a little too insular when it comes to embracing the diversity and excitement and appeal of the current scene.

It isn't that this event is unfair or misjudged or mishandled or that the motives of the organizers are nefarious in some way--because they aren't or at least I don't think we've seen any evidence they are; no, the flaw is that it really doesn't determine what it purports to. It's a limited competition, a promotional opportunity you choose to partake of, a networking opportunity, but not a definitive one--not one destined to influence the industry or even a minorit of professionals in restaurants around the world, one limited in scope in many ways: it's a supreme display of technique clouded with a lot of subjectivity especially when it comes to form, taste and artistic sensibility which we can't experience or influence. And as such it is a great first step for younger pastry chefs, for those trying to broaden their horizons and improve their skill level or network so they can eventually get to the point where they can think for themselves and make up their own minds about what they want to create and how they want to create. It may end up being within this box and it may fall outside this box--and that choice is always going to be up to the individual.

[duckduck]

I'm trying to imagine walking in to my crew of 350 and telling them that we've got this great thing set up but the only one that can be involved is the one white kid on my crew because the rest of them are not "real" Americans. Once again, it's one thing to sit around and bitch online about something. Reality is something entirely difference. Do we really expext them to change the rules as to who can enter and who can't? Wouldn't that just make people bitch all the louder about them being heavy-handed? Maury spent a lot of time in class tapping the flag on the chest of his jacket and talking about this being his home now. Who's going to be the one to walk up to him and say "Yeah, you live here, and you do amazing work but you can't compete any more now that you live here. Your competition days are over because you're not a real American."????

[confiseur]

Sorry that I offer a different opinion.........but then again I do not 'idolize and adore' any French pastry chefs-great craftsmen that they are.

[duckduck]

But if it were someone non-French and someone you knew, could you imagine doing that job yourself and explaining to them why? And would we really expect them to impose all this red tape on all the teams? Like everyone has to show up with birth certificates and all? It's a joke. And like I said, people would bitch even harder the other way. It's one of those things that you can't please everyone. I think overall they do a great job. Could one of us do it better?

[duckduck]

Oh, and by the way... welcome to the club, Confiseur!

[chefette]

edited

Edited July 30, 2004 by chefette (log)

[chocomag]

Sorry it took me so long to go on to find out how some of you that were there felt about the event. To begin with, the Belgian Team has all of their medals, and along with their manager Marc Debailleul, have convinced me that their outburst was spontaneous and regretted. I would like to say the same for the French and Pascal Caffet, Philippe Parc and Alex Gye-Jacquot seemed to agree with their 3rd place finish. Olivier Bajard, their manager is not dealing with it as well but I have received his congrats on the organization.

Steve, I know it's late but if you go on our websire pastrychampionship.com you will find every score from every judge for every category. The next time you see any other competition in the world do that, please let me know.

Whoever wrote that I was surprised was correct. I never expected this result and. truth be told from a business standpoint, was not happy. Clearly, having the USA win both times is not in the best interests of the event, BUT it was the way it turned out and we don't cheat. The winners won because the judges scored them the highest.

Clarification of rules and scoring is also on the website.

I dont know if Belgium and France will return but I suspect they will. Belgium didn't lose because of degustation (although USA did beat them at it). They lost in the work category. They didn't put on a pair of gloves in 2 days, they were cited for stacking chablons (against the rules as it creates a pseudo-mold) and they had pots and pans in the sink at the end of day 1. Still, they lost by 1 point.

I think they are a fabulous team and I have grown friendly with Stephan Leroux and Serge Alexandre. Philippe Rheau is also a nice man who was so drained, he couldn't deal effectively.

There is no doubt that both Belgium and France acted in bad taste and with poor sportsmanship. They'll learn. I think one of the problems is that in other "World" events, atheletes are schooled in accepting things gracefulle. "I only want to help my team," or "With the help of God we'll.... Here, there young men go from shoppes to a world stage and have no coaching on sportsmanship. It happens but it is unfortunate.

The pastillage idea was designed to make the playing field more fair for teams having to travel. It worked well. There is no judging in the room, only an official making sure only one team member was working at any one time.

I hope those of you who were there came away understanding that this event is the most fair and unbiased in the world. I promise you it is.

[tan319]

Well. that got heated rather quickly, no?

kyototaco,

You must not be around here very much, if you were, you would know that Steve Klc is probably not here, certainly in the last year, 6 months for sure, near as much as most would like to see.

I was pleased to read his opinion on the WPC, maybe because it jives with how I feel about it.

The work is great, no doubt about that.

I've enjoyed the pictures very much.

To me, it reflects a very small facet of what pastry and dessert cuisine is all about.

if you haven't read it yet, go out and get the new Food Arts magazine, and read about the World Pastry Summit that was held at Greystone this past spring.

They talked about where pastry is going, flavors to be explored.

Read Pichet Ongs editorial, "Sugar, Spice. Is Everything Nice?" ( it's actually titled "Mincing No Words, sorry), about what the pastry chef faces now, in the marketplace outside of most hotels and resorts. About the choices we'll be making, and what our mission COULD be.

Very inspiring, very true.

And I have to agree with Pamela, Re: the US team situation.

Sorry, just can't see telling a Frenchmen who works here and pays taxes here, that he or she can't be on our team, because of where they're from.

Edited July 30, 2004 by tan319 (log)

[confiseur]

Firstly......duckduck and SteveKlc, thank you for welcoming me onto the forum.......it really is much appreciated.

There are certainly some interesting points raised which I can certainly take on board, particularely the comments by Tan and Steve that the WPC is a small facet of what pastry is about eg. over the last few years I have visited cake dec exhibitions/competitions in the US, S.Africa and the UK ,the standard of work in Sugarcraft and Royal icing exhibited there was far,far higher than anything you will see in any of the French or German speaking countries- I am sure you can all supply countless examples in various other decorative mediums ,let alone without going into the whole range of desserts,cakes,pastries, puddings etc.

duckduck.......I dont doubt for a second that the organisers did a great job-the pictures alone prove that-and as for anyone doing it better........well if ever such a thought entered my own head the men in white coats would come and drag me off to one of those nice hospitals where the rooms have rubber walls and give me lots of sedatives till I was judged to be sane again.......

However the central point has yet to be convincingly addressed-if you set something up and then call it `World Championship`it should be seen to be scrupulously fair in all areas-(and the judging procedure alone is a huge improvement on rival competitions) The fact is and there is no denying it, the last 2 "USA" winning teams contained the grand total of 1 American. Frankly folks this is just not on.

In all forms of endeavour,sporting or otherwise,national teams consist of the nationals of the relavant country eg,the Spanish represent Spain,the Germans represent Germany,the Koreans represent Korea, the Americans represent the US,it is not too difficult a concept to grasp is it?

A certain Mr L. Armstrong has been caning the French in there premier race,the Tour de France in recent years ........can anyone envisage the French putting an American on there national team even if they are a class better than there own people?..........no, I dont think so either.Oh.......and there are plenty of Americans who ride professionally.live and pay taxes in France so that is another argument shot down in flames...........next please.

As for the reported lack of sportsmanship from the Belgian and French teams-well I have competed in Belgium (not yet in France) and have been on the wrong end of a questionable decision.Hopefully I wasnt such a bad loser!

Chocomag,your seeking to justify/excuse the poor sportsmanship of the Belgians and French is with all due respect a little weak, these `young men`in question as you say are in there late 30s! If they have not learnt humility and good manners by now they never will.If you are happy enough to take the plaudits when you win you should be man enough to take it on the chin when you dont.

To coin a sporting analogy,if a tennis player at Wimbledon or the US open had behaved as badly as has been reported I doubt very much if they would even have the option to come back,and if they did what message would this send to the other players?