crimes against grocery

[GG Mora]

Quite frankly, I think some of these nefarious activities border on theft.

Umm...no. No border there. They ARE theft. Some of you folks have me thinking I must live in a parallel universe – one where integrity for its own sake is a charming relic from the olden days.

[Roger Troutman]

As far as karma goes, Sunday afternoon here in the earthy crunchy groceria, an unsupervised toddler got her meat hooks on a Scotch Bonnet pepper, and learned something about vegetables she may never forget. Quite the scene, down there in the produce dept.

Gotta love karma. All ye who steal from the grocery store will suffer in some way as a result of your crime, be it a simple case of diarrhea, or many long hours in agony from acute food poisoning

Edited July 9, 2004 by Roger Troutman (log)

[cdh]

Where is the border between honestly sampling the wares to determine if they're of the quality you want and theft?

Is tasting a grape to see if the bunch is flavorful or watery wrong? How about a cherry? I'd certainly not want to pay $X/lb for tasteless or watery or otherwise suboptimal produce. How about the new batch of olives that you have no idea about what they're like?

I agree that snagging candy from the bulk bin is shady, since you know damn well what it tastes like, and that you want it.

I'm really grossed out by the chutney story above... which is really theft of value from the store, even if she didn't walk away with any of them... the pop-top is popped, so if somebody did buy one of the opened ones they'd likely realize it wasn't sealed... and if it sat on the shelf long enough opened, it would go bad. The store would certainly have to take the return. Now stores should do tastings of things like the chutneys that are unfamiliar to most shoppers... but I imagine that Typhoid-Chutney-Mary wouldn't be deterred from her top-popping-finger-dipping ways even if the shelf did say that chutneys are offered for tasting every third thursday from 2:00-6:00. Were I a manager of the store and saw that, she'd become persona non grata from that moment forward.

[Jinmyo]

Where is the border between honestly sampling the wares to determine if they're of the quality you want and theft?

Is tasting a grape to see if the bunch is flavorful or watery wrong? How about a cherry? I'd certainly not want to pay $X/lb for tasteless or watery or otherwise suboptimal produce. How about the new batch of olives that you have no idea about what they're like?

Just get to know the produce guys at the grocers and then ask for a sample.

[PopsicleToze]

I've read before that most markets run on so small of profit margin that any stealing at all is very costly for them -- even the grape samplings, etc. Sometimes I open a small container of sushi when I'm shopping and eat it piece by piece (hey, it's that or a container of Pringles) if I haven't eaten dinner and don't want to overbuy just because I'm hungry, but I give the empty container to the checkout clerk, who usually has a good chuckle out of it.

I do open containers of fresh seafood, if sealed, so I can smell them and check for freshness. If it's fresh, I buy it, and if it's not, I give it to the person behind the counter and tell them it smells fishy. They usually get perturbed by this but I think it's a service. They shouldn't want to sell people bad seafood, and I don't feel like going home depending on that seafood for dinner and THEN find out it's bad.

But snitching 'free' fruit and candy is wrong, and it sets a horrible example for the children who are watching you do this.

[elion_84]

I believe it's fine to sample grapes or cherries to see if you're getting the good stuff. I've never been confronted by store employees about this. If it happens, I will never shop for said item in this store again. Luckily, most places I shop offer samples.

On the other hand, taking a snack for the child and not paying for it is plain theft. Occasionally we've had to give our son a snack in the store to get him to seat in the cart, but we always pay for it. This is why I like palces where you can weigh your own produce. We'll get some bananas, weigh them, put the sticker on the bag, then give one to the child.

[Naomi]

I was (clumsily) trying to ask whether people's integrity/ personal ethics placed buying fair trade goods and not exploiting the third world up there on the same level as not stealing

[Jason Perlow]

Sorry, kids.

What you are doing is stealing and I don't know how you all were brought up, but I was always taught that taking things from a store that you don't pay for is wrong.

And these bullsh** rationalizations that 1) taking some candy that I didn't pay for keeps me sane

I can assure you, that if anyone here has gone shopping with me or been in my proximity knows that if my sugar level drops, you -REALLY- don't want to be near me.

Manhandling produce and tearing of peices of stuff so that you pay less is one thing, but taking a peice of hard sugar candy that has a net value of probably a fraction of a cent to taste to see if I want to buy more (you really don't expect me to bag it and have them weigh it, do you?) when I am buying 100+ bucks worth of groceries is hardly a delito de sangre.

And I'll tell you what theft is. Theft is the time when you buy all your stuff presumably on sale, you give in your discount card and then when you get home you examine the receipt and you realize they miskeyed it or several items weren't properly entered into their database and you've just been ripped off REAL money.

[beans]

Re: sampling produce

If a corporate grocer even permits sampling.

Yes, you are purchasing food and this may be comparing apples to oranges, but is it a customary practice to ask for a bite sized sample of ____________ from a restaurant (not fast food) before ordering it to see if it is good?

With produce I tend to believe it is a gamble, to some extent. You do learn the season for X and the particular variety of X you prefer. The best I can hope for is it was a great growing season for X.

Who rips open the ears of corn and checks for that little crisp pop? (and what happens to all of those that failed the test and are left behind for the market to eventually toss or to someone who is not picky or in the know about the fingernail popping checking for freshness? Which BTW, is why I *never* purchase corn on the cob from anyone else than Farmer ______'s own little roadside stand). Is this a considered a crime?

Who bruises apricots, figs, nectarines and peaches? (shame on you! )

Who sniffs melons and checks for that heaviness for its size?

Some of this I feel is a crime against the grocer, some of wise consumerism, and probably varies greatly from each person's perspective.

Edited July 9, 2004 by beans (log)

[Pickles]

I have posted on this before but I'll repeat that I hate parents who get their kids cookies and brownies to keep their little mouths busy at the supermarket and then they don't PAY for the snacks.  I also dislike adults taking fruit and eating it while shopping and doing likewise.  There's no intention of paying for the food they are stealing.  And that's what it is...stealing.  I always hope they get a nice case of diarrhea. 

Wow that's pretty harsh. I always give my kids a cookie or small bagel. My Shop Rite gave me a kids club card that entitles the kids to 1 cookie while shopping. I find it really helps when we are waiting in the checkout line. (PS if my daughter wants a bagel instead of a cookie, I pay for it).

If you have a card or whatever for a free cookie then OF COURSE that's a very different thing from what I was discussing. I was expressing my utter disgust at parents who think it's OK to placate a whining and or hungry child with "free" food. And that includes letting them stick their little hands into the salad bar and take carrot sticks. I've seen that recently as well. Unbelieveable, these parents! Taking advantage of free services the store allows is obviously a very different situation.

[tommy]

Where is the border between honestly sampling the wares to determine if they're of the quality you want and theft? 

Is tasting a grape to see if the bunch is flavorful or watery wrong?  How about a cherry? I'd certainly not want to pay $X/lb for tasteless or watery or otherwise suboptimal produce.  How about the new batch of olives that you have no idea about what they're like?

Just get to know the produce guys at the grocers and then ask for a sample.

the produce guys, where i come from, are 20 year-olds who just got done blowing a spliff out by the dumpster behind the Super-Stop-and-Shop. i'm not so sure i need to get to know them. although i might ask for a sample.

Edited July 9, 2004 by tommy (log)

[reesek]

I can assure you, that if anyone here has gone shopping with me or been in my proximity knows that if my sugar level drops, you -REALLY- don't want to be near me.

Manhandling produce and tearing of peices of stuff so that you pay less is one thing, but taking a peice of hard sugar candy that has a net value of probably a fraction of a cent to taste to see if I want to buy more (you really don't expect me to bag it and have them weigh it, do you?) when I am buying 100+ bucks worth of groceries is hardly a delito de sangre.

this is fascinating. maybe it is rationalization but jason - i totally disagree that it's an issue of dollar value. i wouldn't take a unpaid for piece of candy...but i don't think it's at all wrong to take the piece of ginger you're going to use - i'll happily continue to tear off of a torn piece that sits in the bin...similarly - my grocer will cut me 1/2 a cabbage - what happens to other half? presumably someone buys it - but it might just shrivel up while spliffy is out back.

maybe i can rationalize my mushroom thing because i'm happy to pay for what i'm going to use. in fact - if i could buy caps only for even more $ - i would. it's the waste that kills me. it's not like buying meat on the bone - that's more flavorful - and generally you have the option of just getting the meat. but those stems just kill me.

[tommy]

reesek, there's a reason why many stores have signs that say "please don't remove the stems". part of that reason is because they're priced to take the stems into account. from a purely logical and economic viewpoint, you're driving up the price for the rest of us, while you get a nice deal. i'm not preaching here, because quite frankly i'm not all that concerned with it, but i'm getting the feeling that this concept isn't accepted or understood by everyone.

edit: oh, and, jason is a candy thief.

Edited July 9, 2004 by tommy (log)

[cakewalk]

Oh now. And how many of us are logged onto eGullet while we're at work? Getting paid to add our two cents here, are we? Now that's stealing too, y'know.

Like it or not, the question of degree exists here. I'm not saying this to "excuse" anything (I'm no goody-goody, I confess), but I do live in the real world. If I'm at work and I'm paying a bill or surfing the web, whose time is that, really? And when I mail that bill, you think I put a stamp on it? True confessions, here. Does that mean it's okay to do it? No. Not at all. But I do it. Mea culpa.

People do a lot of things that I would never do. (I don't take anything from supermarkets that I don't pay for, for example.) But I probably do things that other people would never do (send my personal mail from work, for example.) What makes me a little nutsy here is all this judgement passing.

[jschyun]

maybe i can rationalize my mushroom thing because i'm happy to pay for what i'm going to use. in fact - if i could buy caps only for even more $ - i would. it's the waste that kills me. it's not like buying meat on the bone - that's more flavorful - and generally you have the option of just getting the meat. but those stems just kill me.

if waste is the real reason behind your stem picking, realize that those stems are going to be thrown away by someone, whether it be you or the grocer. The only difference is that you are not paying for them. I'm not saying it's wrong or right, but your rationalization is based on the faulty assumption that picking off your stems means less waste. you just don't pay for the waste, that's all.

[Jason Perlow]

I can assure you, that if anyone here has gone shopping with me or been in my proximity knows that if my sugar level drops, you -REALLY- don't want to be near me.

Manhandling produce and tearing of peices of stuff so that you pay less is one thing, but taking a peice of hard sugar candy that has a net value of probably a fraction of a cent to taste to see if I want to buy more (you really don't expect me to bag it and have them weigh it, do you?) when I am buying 100+ bucks worth of groceries is hardly a delito de sangre.

this is fascinating. maybe it is rationalization but jason - i totally disagree that it's an issue of dollar value. i wouldn't take a unpaid for piece of candy...but i don't think it's at all wrong to take the piece of ginger you're going to use - i'll happily continue to tear off of a torn piece that sits in the bin...similarly - my grocer will cut me 1/2 a cabbage - what happens to other half? presumably someone buys it - but it might just shrivel up while spliffy is out back.

maybe i can rationalize my mushroom thing because i'm happy to pay for what i'm going to use. in fact - if i could buy caps only for even more $ - i would. it's the waste that kills me. it's not like buying meat on the bone - that's more flavorful - and generally you have the option of just getting the meat. but those stems just kill me.

I have a much more serious problem with destroying a peice of produce (such as a hand of ginger) so that you can take your "peice" that you think you are able to consume, versus taking a small peice of pre-wrapped candy from the bulk candy bin.

And beleive me, nobody buys the "halves" of peices of ginger that you destroy. Stop kidding yourself. They just throw it out and it goes to waste.

[tommy]

hmm. i buy pieces of ginger all of the time, as long as they don't look dried out. i kind of assumed that everyone just took what they wanted. but like i said, it's practically free, so now i just grab a whole big thing of it.

[KateW]

It never occurred to me to take grocery store food in a way other than how it was presented, just like it never occurred to me to order something different from how it's on a menu on a restaurant, or not on a menu at all. I guess the question is, like with the "ordering off the menu" question, where do we draw the line? Can we start taking a chicken breast here, a lamb shank here?

"Testing the batch" like with grapes or cherries never works for me because I could get a delicious one from the same stem or bag a gross moldy one might be in.

If I were going to a grocery store with a cranky kid or a low sugar level I would take responsibility for it with previously bought food (or discipline, in the case of the kid). At least, I hope I would.

[reesek]

jason, what i was saying was that i both buy broken pieces and break pieces - i'm not kidding myself - it's a fact. i just don't go through a whole hand - i only ever need a couple of inches. again - it's not an issue of money - i don't want to buy what i'm not going to use. in the case of the mushrooms - i really have no excuse...but the ginger thing...someone else could use that!

what about those huge shallots - sometimes there are several lobes...is it wrong to take just the big or small lobe?

the work point is brilliant btw cakwalk.

[tommy]

the work point is brilliant btw cakwalk.

i don't think so. your boss isn't purchasing a product that he weighs. if that were the case, i'd be a rich man.

all jobs are different. many jobs require that you bill clients. i'd say that most people are honest with that, especially when you're talking about lawyers and whatnot who are oftentimes under the microscope. other jobs are results oriented. did you get the job done? if yes, then you keep your job and maybe get a raise. it's not unethical to spend a portion of your day at the office on personal matters. it's expected. and there's a school of thought that suggests that it's even healthy, both for the worker and for the company.

i really don't see stealing food and fucking off at work as being the same, especially since i can eff off all day long and it doesn't cost you a cent more.

[cakewalk]

the work point is brilliant btw cakwalk.

i don't think so. your boss isn't purchasing a product that he weighs. if that were the case, i'd be a rich man.

all jobs are different. many jobs require that you bill clients. i'd say that most people are honest with that, especially when you're talking about lawyers and whatnot who are oftentimes under the microscope. other jobs are results oriented. did you get the job done? if yes, then you keep your job and maybe get a raise. it's not unethical to spend a portion of your day at the office on personal matters. it's expected. and there's a school of thought that suggests that it's even healthy, both for the worker and for the company.

i really don't see stealing food and fucking off at work as being the same, especially since i can eff off all day long and it doesn't cost you a cent more.

And I'd say that you're rationalizing. Which is what we all do, albeit for different things. Which is precisely my point.

Thank you very much.

BTW -- so many people break off fingers of ginger that I always find just the size I need without breaking any myself. Now how's that for smug?

[tommy]

And I'd say that you're rationalizing. Which is what we all do, albeit for different things. Which is precisely my point.

Thank you very much.

BTW -- so many people break off fingers of ginger that I always find just the size I need without breaking any myself. Now how's that for smug?

how am i rationalizing? i don't even work. stealing food will get you thrown into jail or in front of a judge. sending emails from work, well, no, it's different. see?

i'm definitely with you on the ginger.

[beans]

I agree with tommy. When I was a busy little legal assistant researching on Lexis, or whatever, I still had a target billable amount of time. If I spent 3/10ths of an hour surfing eG (it wasn't around when I was stuck in an office) then I did. I wasn't stealing from my employer as I didn't bill a client for it and I rare took a lunch hour out in a sit down restaurant and usually did working lunches of catered meetings or eating at my desk as I read, researched or drafted/wrote my assignments. (oh, administrators spotted and eliminated that personal mail through the company's mail room meter thing like a hawk watching a mouse.... personal photocopies as well by creating account numbers for personal matters for each and every employee)

I think everywhere I've worked I've been pressed to remain accountable, even down to using a stamp!

If I log on to eG while at work, it is work related. Or on some of my personal off time to upload images (with my boss' approval for eGCI).

Besides all of that, I still feel sampling grocery store foods is different, but yes I notice how many will rationalise. (based on many work related experiences and observations, but off topic)

Anyone ever think of or hear or think about eating before you grocery shop? I know I spend less when I do and it may be a cure for preventing hungry adults and children alike.

[egator]

The one thing I will do is allow the cashier to ring items up improperly if he/she decided that my shitaki or criminis are 'Mushrooms, general, $.99/lbs).

There was a large grocery chain up the street from my house where that happened all the time. The check-out cashiers couldn’t tell the difference between a yellow onion and a Vidalia onion, between a summer squash and a zucchini squash, etc. – really basic food items. To me that’s just bad management/business. If you are going to have employees whose job it is to price produce, then they should be trained to identify those items. Cart them over to the produce department for a tutorial. If you don’t want to take the time for training, expect to lose money because employee rings up asparagus as green beans. They were usually teenagers, which would always make me think, “my gosh, what does your mother feed you?”.

On another note, we have a small local grocery/health-food store that is great. It has very good prices on produce, meat, cheese – and it’s the only place in town to get truffle oil & san marzano tomatoes. I love the place. The store also has those bins with nuts, oats and mysterious hippie food. What kills me is when I see people taking handfuls of macadamia nuts, raw cashews and the like. Especially because there is a very large sign that politely states they lose money when you sample. I guess some people just conveniently don’t notice the sign. The store rings everything up by hand (at lightning speed) and I have never had a cashier who didn’t know what vegetable/fruit she was ringing up.

Edited July 9, 2004 by egator (log)

[tommy]

To me that’s just bad management/business.  If you are going to have employees whose job it is to price produce, then they should be trained to identify those items.  Cart them over to the produce department for a tutorial.  If you don’t want to take the time for training, expect to lose money because employee rings up asparagus as green beans.

they ain't losing money. they build a buffer into the price to offset losses. don't you worry about that.

Edited July 9, 2004 by tommy (log)