VETRI

[Kim WB]

While in town this past week for the Flower Show,  we considered Vetri's for dinner..but it was booked.  Wondering if its worth a trip from Princeton to dine...would you consider it destination dining?

[Holly Moore]

Vetri's is considered one of the best restaurants in Philadelphia.  The menu is Italian.  It is a relatively small restaurant so if you're looking for Friday or Saturday night, you'll probably have to book a few weeks in advance.

As to whether Vetri's is a destination restaurant, it is to me, but I live about 10 blocks away.  Not sure about driving down from Princeton. But if excellent Italian is your thing, why not?

So, any great meals in leiu of Vetri's while at the Flower Show?

[Kim WB]

We went to Prime Rib,  it was an ok steak..terrible oysters.  Ny husband is a big steak man, its always our default choice.

I'd like to try the Iron Chef place...actually, the sushi chef that's in our local place wants to join us...I read the review in the Inquirer, but was a little unsure: is the the prix fixe only. or can you a la carte at the sushi bar?

[herbacidal]

Oh you can a la carte everywhere.

It's just that the prix fixe aspect has gotten the most press as far as the menu, probably b/c at the high end, it's the

highest priced prix fixe Philly has seen since Le Bec Fin unveiled its menu.  Or at least I think it is.

Don't quote me on that.

[Daniel]

We have had these reservations for some time now and have anticipated coming here even longer.. Perhaps this is why we were so disappointed with our experience here.. Granted, its a fine restaurant, but based on Saturday's Dinner, it was not memorable in anyway..

The room is cute, crowded, with temperatures going from cold to stuffy and hot.. Even after bringing this to our waitress's attention, it wasn't fixed.. In fact, the woman sitting about 6 inches from us was putting her jacket on and off the entire evening..

We arrived for our 830 reservation and were seated immediately.. We ordered the 6 course tasting with the wine pairing.. The wine, was the highlight of the evening and I am not a huge wine fan..

We were given an amuse with a glass of Prosecco.. The amuse was really average.. They called it a Trout Baklava.. Basically, it was a fried trout salad rolled in a ball.. We were given two small balls and my girlfriend didnt even want her second ball.. I dont know why the called it Baklava..

I started with a frisee salad with poached pears,blue cheese, croutons and a wine vinegar.. Nothing too exciting.. Think of what you would expect and thats what the salad was..

Next came the Elf Mushroom Soup with Seared Duck Breast. The soup was a Brown Chicken Stock, or game bird stock.. It was average, had way too much Thyme in it for me.. In fact the thyme over powered the whole dish.. The duck breast was minuscule.. Three bites worth of well prepared duck.. The duck was skinless and very rare.. I didnt like how one dimensional the dish was because of the soft mushrooms too.. Again, not bad, but just eh..

Primi:

Swordfish casoncelli with brown butter,pancetta and sage..

Basically it was swordfish dumplings in a brown butter sage sauce with pancetta.. The pancetta was the highlight of the dish.. I think it was either extruded or cut in perfect little strips.. However, i thought they were circular.. Very crispy and perfect.. The dumplings were also expertly done.. The brown butter sauce was nothing too special.. My local italian neighborhood joint makes a brown butter sage sauce that is far superior.. This was my favorite dish of the night..

Secondi:

I got the Capretto or Baby Goat ribs spit cooked over mesquite for five hours.. This was served over polenta.. This dish was really embarrassing.. Firstly, the only flavoring used in the polenta was Philly Tap Water.. No butter, no salt, nothing. Secondly, I have had Goat prepared several ways.. My favorite being at Coopers BBQ in Texas.. This was an ok version. But it was served with no seasoning, no sauce, just the two really small ribs and bland polenta.. I could have had a better goat dish at a take out place.

The desserts were another highlight besides the wine..

I also tried the things my girlfriend received..

The Guinea Hen Terrine was my favorite

The sweet onion crepe was too oniony, had no truffle presence, and was below average..

Spinach Gnocchi, which wasn't gnocchi at all was very good.. It was more of a malfatti..Served with the same brown butter sauce as I had on my swordfish..

And her venison with licorice powder served with a cold fennel salad wasnt too good.. I didnt like venison served on a cold creamy salad that had too much dill in it..

Dinner came out to 360 bucks before tip.. I thought the portions were tiny, the ingredients inexpensive, the meal over priced and over rated.. Dont think I am calling this place bad.. But I based on my experience, I would go to many, many different restaurants before I went back here.. The husband and wife sitting 6 inches to my right, who actually interupted us to say "I have been listening to your conversation all night and was wondering where you guys are from" Loved there meals.. So, this is just my opinion..

Edited October 3, 2006 by Daniel (log)

[cdh]

I've had Vetri's food when he cooked as a part of an ensemble of chefs at the Beard House, and wasn't impressed either. I've steered clear of the place, even though Philly is in my back yard. There must be some talent in that kitchen to keep the PR buzz that he has going... but maybe you just have to be lucky or know somebody who can kick the place into gear to get served the good stuff. If I ever get the urge to go there, I think I'd look up his sibling I worked with years ago and see if any special friends of the family treatment could be arranged.... but that urge hasn't struck me yet.

[shacke]

Thanks for posting that, Daniel.

I had a very average and so so meal there many years ago but recently thought I would try it again with the recent glorius publicity MV received. Daniel, your notes have put me back to square one. I am pretty sure it's just not for me and will leave my initial experience stand .....

Evan

[I_call_the_duck]

And so I jump on the bandwagon. We had dinner at Vetri a few years ago, and it wasn't memorable for me either. I initially blamed it on being tired (and a little tipsy)--we had a 9:30 reservation on a Thursday night)--but nothing wowed me. I remember the pasta being very good, but I've had better elsewhere, and for much less money.

[Vadouvan]

This thread reminds me of the famous Mark Antony speech..........

"Friends, Romans, Countrymen, we have come here to bury Ceasar not to praise him"

I certainly take no issues with everyone's opinions, just suprised that once daniel blew the floodgates, everyone jumped in the reservoir......

HAS anyone had a good meal at Vetri....?

All that hype cant be for nothing.

My pastas there were excellent.

I guess i ordered safe....

I love that pasta tasting menu at Babbo thats why I did similar at Vetri.....

Edited October 4, 2006 by Vadouvan (log)

[wkl]

it was a few years ago, maybe 2000, but i had one of the better meals i ever ate at vetri. i don't remember all the specifics but do remember a crepe w/ proscuitto and fontina, roast goat, rissotto, and gnocchi. it was a memorable experience.

i've only eaten there once but my impression is that mark's food is pretty straightforward, so if your looking for modern prepartions, or complex sauces and ingredients this probably isn't your place.

funny, i was in philly the other w/e for the night and really wanted to eat here, but couldn't get a reservation.(ended up at mandoline). it's a tough reservation apparantly, so he must be wowing alot of people. after all ,mark vetri was a food and wine best new chef of the year back in '99 or 2000, so he must know what he is doing.

[wkl]

also, something tells me if vetri was a byo tucked away in some unassuming neighborhood the food would be the shizzy.................

right, v???

[Joe Gerard]

This thread reminds me of the famous Mark Antony speech..........

"Friends, Romans, Countrymen, we have come here to bury Ceasar not to praise him"

I certainly take no issues with everyone's opinions, just suprised that once daniel blew the floodgates, everyone jumped in the reservoir......

HAS anyone had a good meal at Vetri....?

All that hype cant be for nothing.

My pastas there were excellent.

I guess i ordered safe....

I love that pasta tasting menu at Babbo thats why I did similar at Vetri.....

←

I might as well join the nay-sayers. Based on my one dinner Vetri has to be the most overrated restaurant in the country. The famous crepe had no truffle flavor at all and neither did the pasta. There was a boring clam broth dish, and the goat, like just about every dish we tried, was woefully underseasoned. I wanted to go into the kitchen to see if they had any salt at all.

[Daniel]

also, something tells me if vetri was a byo tucked away in some unassuming neighborhood the food would be the shizzy.................

right, v???

←

I think that its unfair to assume that my or anyone else's opinion is so easily formed the way you suggest.. If it was tucked away somewhere, it would have been 1/3 of the price and the food would have tasted the same way. The food was good, just not memorable in anyway..

[wkl]

i was referring specificly to the byo scene here in philly and how a view of a place is colored by wether or not it is byo, imho.

the food would not be 1/3 the price w/out wine sales.

i just threw the comment out there as food for thought....

[Vadouvan]

also, something tells me if vetri was a byo tucked away in some unassuming neighborhood the food would be the shizzy.................

right, v???

Daniel, knowing Bill personally, I dont think he was nullifying your points.

The fact in Philadelphia is there is an Italian paradox where lots of people have criticised the food at Vetri and consistently put up with mediocre food from Italian BYO's that use POMACE olive oil to cook and dip bread at the table. Now I am NOT saying those who have had less than stellar meals in this thread are wrong, certainly I am not trying to dictate taste or call people philistines, I am just saying that Bill (WKL) does have a point. Italian BYO's in center city (with the exception of Melograno) are price driven not quality driven, all the food is missing the finer points of Italian cooking. Without those "finer points" it just has no soul.

Cheap Olive oil

Cheap Balsamic Vinegar.

Pre Grated Pamesan........if it is actually Parmesan, most serve pecorino and grana and the public is clueless......

Hey Philadining...what the title of that book again, perhaps this subject should be a chapter.

"Dumas Party of 4, Your Table Is Ready"

Phil A Dining and Va DOO Van

Simon and schuster..........

[mrbigjas]

i've had two meals at vetri. the first was when i was a relative newbie to fine dining, probably back in 1997 or so, and the couple hundred it set us back kind of overshadows a lot of my memories of the meal itself.

the last time was just a couple of years ago, and i had the roast goat, which remains to this day one of the more memorable pieces of meat i've ever had. fantastic.

[wkl]

"Dumas Party of 4, Your Table Is Ready"

Phil A Dining and Va DOO Van

Simon and schuster..........

no doubt this book would have the best food pictures ever.........

[dagordon]

We had a great meal at Vetri in early August, write up is here: http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showto...0entry1246930

we would certainly return. agreed w/ mrbigjas that the goat is spectacular, at least it was when we had it.

I don't think the situation re: Italian in Philly quite elevates to the level of a "paradox"... The point, as others have mentioned, is that Vetri is pretty damn expensive. If you get a mediocre meal for that kind of money you SHOULD be upset.

Now, it may be the case that the food is SO bad at many less exensive, popular Italian places that, even though they're fairly cheap, the quality/cost ratio is still as low as what the folks who are complaining about Vetri here would estimate its quality/cost ratio to be. If this is the case, then people should be complaining more about the cheaper places.

But unless there's a certain threshold of expensiveness involved, I don't think people are going to be as ready to complain. I take it that one of the functions of these boards is to give people as much information as possible before making what are often quite expensive decisions: "Hey, before you drop $500 for dinner on this place, listen to what my experience there was like." This is valuable not only b/c of the money involved but also because, when money like this is involved, it's often a dinner that is marking a special occasion, so the quality of the dinner matters even more than usual.

[Daniel]

Hey Dagordon,

I have a question about the goat you had.. Was it served with the same polenta? Because that was a bigger disappointment then the goat..

I liked the goat, but I cook goat, have smoked it myself, and have had it at a few great BBQ places.. Its the type of thing where you can get a huge order for not a ton of cash.. And I am a huge quality over quantity guy when the situation calls for it.. I see that you were at Memphis in May as was I.. If you do your own BBQ'ing I would tell you to go to a Spanish Supermarket and get some Cabrito..

[philadining]

For no good reason at all, I've never been to Vetri. I've tried a few times at the last minute, and as Bill discovered, it's not a last-minute kind of place... I haven't been avoiding it, it's just been something I've been saving for a special occasion, and then the scheduling never works out.

But for what it's worth, I've had a few trusted friends go, and they all raved about it.

I agree with the V that the majority of the Italian restaurants in town aren't striving for this level of refinement, or using ingredients of this quality, and that sets up a contrast of cost/value. As many have suggested, at this price level one can reasonably expect to be amazed by the food. Perhaps it raises a question about this particular style of cooking: is it inherently show-stopping, fireworks-launching, mind-blowing food? I always had the impression that the ultimate expression of this style was simplicity. One would hope that excellent ingredients, expertly prepared, would indeed be amazing, but I wonder if the price point and setting create an expectation of something that it doesn't intend to be.

I'm not accusing anyone of not understanding Italian food, or this particular regional focus, but I guess I'm wondering how good a roasted goat gets? I've heard raves about Vetri's version, but I have no doubt that there are also some great versions being made in parking lots, on smokers pulled behind beat-up pickup trucks.

Vetri's going to charge more for it because of the context, and that gets back to the enduring, unanswerable "worth-it" equation. Clearly, a fair number of people weren't that impressed, and didn't feel it was worth it. That's valuable information, and I'm glad they posted about it. But obviously, from the fact that they're full most of the time, as well as numerous rave reviews from serious writers, others do find that it's worth it.

Of course the reports of things seeming un- or under-seasoned are troubling, but I wonder if sometimes that comes down to personal preferences and biological differences. One person's subtle elegance is another person's blah. I can't comment on Vetri in particular, but I have been surprised to encounter this occasionally in even very refined kitchens, and it did make me wonder what was up...

In any case, I still hope to eat at Vetri sometime soon, maybe before the Osteria gets going... Just look for me booked as "Dumas, party of 4". And yes, I'll take pictures for the book!

[dagordon]

Hey Dagordon,

I have a question about the goat you had.. Was it served with the same polenta?  Because that was a bigger disappointment then the goat..

I liked the goat, but I cook goat, have smoked it myself, and have had it at a few great BBQ places..  Its the type of thing where you can get a huge order for not a ton of cash.. And I am a huge quality over quantity guy when the situation calls for it..  I see that you were at Memphis in May as was I.. If you do your own BBQ'ing I would tell you to go to a Spanish Supermarket and get some Cabrito..

←

the goat was served with polenta -- i don't remember it that vividly, however. i do remember liking it.

we were at memphis in may just for eating, not BBQing. this was my first goat outisde of indian cuisine, where i've only ever had it shrouded in pretty intense sauces. it's quite possible that there's much better, cheaper bbq goat out there! although it's hard for me to imagine what it would be like... i mean, i can imagine all sorts of good bbq goat preparations, but vetri's was all about simplicity: allowing the flavor of the goat itself, and the texture of the crisped skin, to shine.

again, though, i'm a goat novice.

[jelly]

I've eaten at Vetri four times over the past few years and was delighted every time. I have friends, however, who while they liked the food thought it was overpriced. I disagree.

[davecap]

I had a decent meal there a few years ago, but the memory that stands out for me is the wine prices. The wine list is very extensive, and appreciated. I was not there on an expense account and had to search to find a bottle under $75.00. I think any restaurant, fine dining or not, has to understand that some people eat there as a special occasion, and an offering of multiple bottles of varying styles and prices is required. Just charging more for a particular bottle does not make that meal more memorable.

[arazi]

being one of the few restaurants in philadelphia i have yet to visit, i was planning on making a reservation at vetri for an upcoming anniversary. but now i am having second thoughts. first, a chef educator of mine informed me she recently dined at vetri and found a long curly hair in her cappuccino. while i understand things like that can happen, she said the staff didn't seem apologetic AND even charged her for the coffee. now i am reading some of these reviews.

i'm not sure what to do. i'd rather form my own opinions on restaurants but i am a student and not exactly made of money.

[Capaneus]

I had a decent meal there a few years ago, but the memory that stands out for me is the wine prices.  The wine list is very extensive, and appreciated.  I was not there on an expense account and had to search to find a bottle under $75.00.  I think any restaurant, fine dining or not, has to understand that some people eat there as a special occasion, and an offering of multiple bottles of varying styles and prices is required.  Just charging more for a particular bottle does not make that meal more memorable.

←

Allowing Jeff, Marc's partner/manager, to help you with your selections will often work wonders: he's steered me to a number of bottles closer to $50 that were very good. Though it is true that $50 is very close to that list's rock bottom: none of the cheaper bottles, of which there were a couple, were wines I would consider ordering.