Jump to content
  • Welcome to the eG Forums, a service of the eGullet Society for Culinary Arts & Letters. The Society is a 501(c)3 not-for-profit organization dedicated to the advancement of the culinary arts. These advertising-free forums are provided free of charge through donations from Society members. Anyone may read the forums, but to post you must create a free account.

Making Pizza at Home/Homemade Pizza


beans

Recommended Posts

13 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

".....realms of the obsessive......."

indeed.  I've spent lots of time in Italy - Turin/Piedmont/Sicily/Naples/'east coast'/ Venice-area-into-the- Dolomites . . .

 

methinks the issue is a local pride issue - which is actually unrelated to "tastes good"

 

regardless..... wood auto-ignition temp is 451' Fahrenheit.  there's a book about that.....

the vastest majority of home ovens design for install around wood do not exceed 500'F - for safety reasons.....

our most recent replacement says it will go to 550'F - done that - display reads 550'F - does preheat a baking stone super well.


Well ...

 

I somewhat disagree with the statement of “local pride issue and not related to taste”. Cooking techniques developed from available equipment, and the taste is by necessity a combination of ingredients & techniques - which in the case of Neapolitan pizza is deemed as “good” by quite a share of people. 
 

I complete disagree with your second statement. 451’ is the alleged auto ignition temperature (actually more of a median) of paper, not of wood. There is a book about that 😉 ... Wood burns at higher temperatures - but this would not pose a significant risk, as ovens are properly insulated and will not start to ignite their respective environment. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 hours ago, AlaMoi said:

methinks the issue is a local pride issue - which is actually unrelated to "tastes good"


As @Duvel alludes to, Neapolitan pizza was born out of necessity.  Poor aspiring pizzeria owners couldn't afford hulking 70,000+ lb. bread ovens.  Smaller ovens at lower temps = less output, so, if Neapolitans wanted to make money, the only option was to run the oven hotter. This is still a reality with wood fired ovens today. It doesn't hurt that Naples has been quite industrial/bustling/fast paced for hundreds of years.  What's the translation for espresso? ;)  This was fast food centuries before Ray Kroc had a glint in his eye.

 

Taste is relative, so 'tastes good' causes me to bristle a bit, but if you wanted to say something along the lines of "less crowd pleasing," I can absolutely agree that Neapolitan pizza is less crowd pleasing than American.  Not if the crowd is in Italy, obviously, but, as you move into neutral areas without much of a pizza history, longer baked pizza is generally favored. Speaking of espresso... I might go as far as to say it most likely breaks down like espresso does vs lighter roasts. The intense char, the wetness- Neapolitan pizza is not for everyone. 

But any conversation about the polarizing aspects of Neapolitan pizza, as I said before, is off topic.  1 minute Neapolitan pizza is polarizing, niche, obsessive, an acquired taste, etc. etc.  7 minute NY vs 10 minute NY- for everyone that I've ever met 7 tastes better- dramatically better- like "Oh my God, I just tried steel for the first time and my life will never be the same" better.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

made pizza for lunch for the so. i’m a terrible planner so i made this dough about 90 minutes before i baked the pizza. 

 

took about five and a half minutes in my oven, probably could have gotten away with a little less but i put too much cheese on it since i didn’t want to put what i had left back in the fridge. 

 

pesto, chicken from some “stuffs” i baked last night, bowl of defrosted corn and peas that was in the fridge, sesame. i was out of pine nuts and parmesan so i subbed cashews and vegemite for the pesto. honestly it came out extremely well. 

 

 

E96DA0CD-5554-47FE-8190-F0741A253084.jpeg

B0430399-BA08-4538-BED2-52A5BECD91D2.jpeg

7E951E08-1FF5-4762-B07C-20C3EC746C51.jpeg

  • Like 6
  • Delicious 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

With the same dough an attempted pizza bianca was made the other day, but with 24 hours more hanging out in the fridge, almost round pizza was made last night.

 

IMG_3460.thumb.jpeg.61a7e9b2bf5985fa74128104516acd5b.jpeg

 

I stretched as much as possible and got it quite thin...

 

IMG_3462.thumb.jpeg.e5c313ca86902e470540bfdde074dadf.jpeg

 

But do I like 2 or 3 day rested dough for this kind of pizza is the question. The answer - I really don't think so. It attains, for want of a better description, a different type of chew.  At least we're having fun experimenting. And probably gaining weight.

 

  • Like 5

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

So true, @Chris Hennes, so true!

 

A week or two ago I received an email from King Arthur touting a discount...who can let something like that slip away?!  So in addition to a number of other items I purchased (did I really need a King Arthur coffee mug?  Well, it put me over the limit to qualify for the discount, so...), I bought a bag of...

 

IMG_3648.thumb.JPG.fc0dbb7f0ba7603cf474bb6d87bd80d5.JPG

 

And set out to make pizza yesterday, strictly following the instructions on the back of the bag. I wish they'd listed the protein content of this flour somewhere.

 

This first pie came in at about 4 minutes, after preheating the steel for an hour and then turning on the broiler for a good 10 minutes...

 

IMG_3624.thumb.jpeg.ee081d2fe405fec31d86fc3c81467db8.jpeg

 

And was quite good. But it was the second pie, baked for an additional minute and a half, which really hit the spot...

 

IMG_3626.thumb.jpeg.800016420250079908977a4d7ea918c2.jpeg

 

I didn't have a lot of mozzarella, so I made if half cheese, half plain. And I used a bit more sauce than I normally do, this one a jar of my favorite stuff from Gustiamo blended with a can of Muir Glen chopped tomatoes, some olive oil and salt.

 

IMG_3625.thumb.jpeg.85fdcfaa513ab0f7dec2ffd76442c20d.jpeg

 

IMG_3640.thumb.jpeg.70f123fe50194610979058d3a0e8b8e6.jpeg

 

I guess I'd call it somewhere in-between Neapolitan and NY style, as it was not soupy as some Neapolitan pies can be, and more tender than some NY style pies might be - less crispy, that is, other than that crust rim.  Quite good.

  • Like 7
  • Delicious 1

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

30 minutes ago, weinoo said:

I wish they'd listed the protein content of this flour somewhere.

 

I believe you can work that out. Here.

  • Like 2

Anna Nielsen aka "Anna N"

...I just let people know about something I made for supper that they might enjoy, too. That's all it is. (Nigel Slater)

"Cooking is about doing the best with what you have . . . and succeeding." John Thorne

Our 2012 (Kerry Beal and me) Blog

My 2004 eG Blog

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, weinoo said:

I wish they'd listed the protein content of this flour somewhere.

 

Remember that protein content is not the same as gluten content. You can have high protein flour with low gluten and vice versa. Though there's probably a corellation.

  • Like 1

~ Shai N.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Anna N said:

I believe you can work that out. Here.

True. But now, on other bags of flour, they’re giving a quite precise percentage of protein.  Using the formulae certainly gives a broader range of percentages. 

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

https://www.amazon.com/King-Arthur-Specialty-Flour-American-Grown/dp/B08J23Z8DD

"Our new ‘00’ Pizza Flour’s perfectly balanced blend of hard and soft wheats deliver an outstanding Neapolitan-style crust that’s crispy on the outside while chewy on the inside, and has a 11.5% baking protein level along with extra-fine ‘00’ milling."


I'm not endorsing this flour, btw, just relaying information from the miller.

Edited by scott123 (log)
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, scott123 said:

https://www.amazon.com/King-Arthur-Specialty-Flour-American-Grown/dp/B08J23Z8DD

"Our new ‘00’ Pizza Flour’s perfectly balanced blend of hard and soft wheats deliver an outstanding Neapolitan-style crust that’s crispy on the outside while chewy on the inside, and has a 11.5% baking protein level along with extra-fine ‘00’ milling."


I'm not endorsing the flour, btw, just relaying information from the miller.

 

Great - thanks!

 

Interesting how close in protein content it is to their A/P...

 

IMG_3650.thumb.JPG.b82844e55a8441710553835b7e79955b.JPG

  • Like 1

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, shain said:

 

Remember that protein content is not the same as gluten content. You can have high protein flour with low gluten and vice versa. Though there's probably a corellation.


For white flour, protein is basically gluten.  When you start extracting closer to the hull, as you do with whole grain/high ash, you'll run into proteins that don't form gluten, and thus skew the numbers.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, scott123 said:


For white flour, protein is basically gluten.  When you start extracting closer to the hull, as you do with whole grain/high ash, you'll run into proteins that don't form gluten, and thus skew the numbers.

 

Sorry, my bread baking know-about is a bit stale 😁.  But I think gluten quality is still a thing with white flour - might be due to protein damage rather then content? I'm not sure. I do remember that protein content is not a direct indicator of gluten-forming strength. 

~ Shai N.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, shain said:

 

Sorry, my bread baking know-about is a bit stale 😁.  But I think gluten quality is still a thing with white flour - might be due to protein damage rather then content? I'm not sure. I do remember that protein content is not a direct indicator of gluten-forming strength. 


A bit stale.  Good one :)

I can't speak for other flours in other countries, but my previous comment related to pizza flour.  Pizza flour is only milled in 4 countries.  U.S., Canada, the UK and Italy.  The Italians are renowned for bending over backwards trying to protect the protein by keeping the temperatures low during the grinding process.  This being said, I've seen countless doughs made with Neapolitan flour that fell right in line with North American flours with the same protein percentages, so the common idea that North American millers are  taking protein damage less seriously than the Italians is not true in my experience.

Now, British pizza flours, specifically the Manitoba varieties, they do consistently underperform their specs, but I've always chalked that up to a quality issue with private label rather than questionable milling.

My data is only observational, but it is comprehensive.  Based on what I've seen, I think that modern milling methods have reached a point where protein damage is no longer much of a concern- in pizza flour milling countries.  

Edited by scott123 (log)
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Normally I am pretty good at planning ahead for pizza, but this afternoon I decided that what sounded really good for dinner tonight was... well, pizza. So no poolish, no aging, in fact no refrigeration at all:

DSC_7934.jpg

 

It was still pretty decent, but I do prefer the flavor of a more aged dough. Topping are just canned crushed tomatoes, chopped fresh tomatoes, and one of those vacuum-packed things of fresh mozzarella.

  • Like 8

Chris Hennes
Director of Operations
chennes@egullet.org

Link to comment
Share on other sites

12 hours ago, Chris Hennes said:

Normally I am pretty good at planning ahead for pizza,

What time of day did you decide?  Did it at least get a couple of rises?

 

To be honest, I almost enjoy less fermented dough for certain pizza, but obviously, just me.

Edited by weinoo (log)
  • Like 3

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, weinoo said:

What time of day did you decide?  Did it at least get a couple of rises?

 

To be honest, I almost enjoy less fermented dough for certain pizza, but obviously, just me.

 

for me i like a funkier dough when it’s either a super simple pie or the toppings just aren’t really in your face. otherwise i am ambivalent as long as the gluten is developed. i find i can do pretty great pizzas with just a couple of hours these days but i’ll often add something like a little molasses or beer or something to the dough just to bump up the depth of flavour. 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm, I wonder if adding either of the malt powders I just got from King Arthur would work in a faster dough - and kneading with the food processor.

 

One of my main reasons for enjoying a leisurely (aka no-knead) dough is basically that I don't have to do anything except stir all the ingredients together into a cohesive mass.

Edited by weinoo (log)
  • Like 2

Mitch Weinstein aka "weinoo"

Tasty Travails - My Blog

My eGullet FoodBog - A Tale of Two Boroughs

Was it you baby...or just a Brilliant Disguise?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

thinking about this some more you could probably work out a sliding scale for percentage of diastatic malt to add. too much and you'll get a super gummy result, too little and it won't make a difference. if you're doing a quick ferment you could maybe get away with adding more than you would for something like an overnight ferment.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Chris Hennes said:

After another day in the fridge, here's the second half of that dough:

 

DSC_7944.jpg

 

That's broccolini (brocolette? whatever we are calling it...) tossed with black pepper, red pepper flakes, and lemon zest. One of my favorites.

Had you wanted to, would this dough have been amenable to being rolled out thinner?

eGullet member #80.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...