Non fat dry milk substitution

[mckayinutah]

Having trouble finding a substitution for dry milk. I am all out and need some help.

I am making a potato soft roll.

Recipe calls for 8# nonfat dry milk and 6 gallons of water, so I need a substitution that uses non fat LIQUID milk.

I have found substituitions that go the other way, from liquid to using dry and adding water, but how would I go from dry to liquid?

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Jason

[Rachel Perlow]

Well let's see...

According to Nestle's website, VeryBestBaking.com, 1/3 cup dry milk used to make 1 cup reconstituted milk, that's probably 7 oz water? I don't know how much that is by weight. And my head isn't ready to do the math. But wouldn't you just use 6 gallons of milk? If anything, use Skim Plus, as it tastes like milk with added dry milk to me.

[Dave the Cook]

Someone needs to check my arithmetic, and Jason, be aware that this is based on one crucial assumption -- if you've got an empty box around, you should check this.

All of this assumes that the information on the label that Rachel linked to is a one-pound box of instant product.

• Nestle says that to reconstitute to one cup of non-fat milk, you start with 1/3 cup powder. This means you would have to add 5-1/3 ounces of water to make a cup.
  
• In a one-pound box, there are 12 servings, or 4 cups per pound, or 32 fluid ounces.
  
• The recipe calls for eight pounds of milk -- the equivalent of 96 servings.
  
• Using Nestle's formula, 96 servings of milk would require 512 ounces of water (96*5.33)
  
• 512 ounces of water plus 256 ounces (a volume measurement of the powder, per Nestle's directions; 8 pounds * 32 fluid ounces per pound) is 768 fluid ounces, or six gallons.
  
• The recipe calls for eight gallons of reconstituted liquid (six of water, plus two of powder).
  
• I conclude that you need to use six gallons of non-fat liquid milk, plus two gallons water.
  

(crossing my fingers)

[Rachel Perlow]

Wait, something isn't right here. First off, solids, when dissolved into a liquid don't measure up equal to the liquid. I'm not saying that right. What I mean is that 1/3 cup dry milk + 2/3 cup water is less than 1 cup (8 oz) milk.

However, Dave is right about the volume of liquid needed. Except that 6 gallons milk plus 2 gallons water is too watery. 8 lbs dry milk + 6 gallons water yields milk that is more “milky” than watery.

8 lbs dry milk should yield 12 gallons liquid milk.

So, the decision needs to be, which is more important, the volume of liquid or the protein and other components of the dry milk? The volume is correct, you need 8 gallons liquid. But if the solids are an important aspect of the recipe than my earlier assertion that you should use a higher milk solids product, like Skim Plus.

Jason, do you have 8 gallons of milk on hand? If not, and you’re going to a store anyway, you may want to just get the dry milk.

Edit to say that I couldn't find the package size information on that online link. Anyone have a box of dry milk at home?

Edited June 12, 2004 by Rachel Perlow (log)

[Rachel Perlow]

OK -- more informaiton on the NetGrocer site. The box is 9.6 oz. What a PITA the math is going to be now!

[Rachel Perlow]

So, the box is 9.6 oz, or ~272 grams. A serving is 23 grams, 12 servings in a box. So, you need 13.33 boxes to be 8 lbs of dry milk, which still yields 12 gallons.

Therefore, actually, it doesn't matter what the box weighs. You still need more milk protein to the volume of liquid than plain skim milk would have.

[Rachel Perlow]

Wait, the above math is wrong. It takes 3.2 lbs of dry milk to equal 8 gallons milk.

However, the conclusion is still correct, the recipe calls for 2.5 times the amount of dry milk needed to make the volume of liquid called for.

[Dave the Cook]

Wait, something isn't right here. First off, solids, when dissolved into a liquid don't measure up equal to the liquid. I'm not saying that right. What I mean is that 1/3 cup dry milk + 2/3 cup water is less than 1 cup (8 oz) milk.

True, if you're using a dry measure for the powder. But I think Nestle assumes that people will take a liquid measuring cup and pour in 1/3 powder, then add to the one-cup line. Yes, it's another assumption, but a reasonable one, I think. I'm as sure as I can be that Nestle tests it this way, because consumers are lazy and don't really know that dry measures aren't the same as liquid measures. But you're right that the volume of milk will collapse upon dissolution, so 2/3 C water probably isn't enough.

Anyway, now that we have a weight (23g) to work with, that's irrelevant. Thanks for digging that up, Rachel.

But I don't get the 3.2 pounds per 8 gallons.

23 grams is required for 1 cup of milk

one gallon = 16 cups

16 * 23g = 368g

368g * 8 gallons = 2944g

2944/454 grams per pound = 6.485 pounds to make 8 gallons, or about 13 ounces per gallon. This agrees with the yield from a 9.6 ounce box: enough powder to make 12 cups, or 3 quarts -- 23 g, or 0.8 ounces, per cup (0.8 * 16 = 12.8 ounces, close enough considering how much rounding goes on with metric-English conversions)

So the recipe calls for enough powder to make about 10 gallons of milk (8 pounds * 16 ounces = 128 ounces), 25% more liquid than the recipe needs. You're going to have to remove liquid from somewhere else, but I bet there's not much other liquid in the recipe.

[mckayinutah]

The dough is on the bench now. We went with 8 gallons lowfat milk. My bread baker says it looks about the right consistency ( she has been making this dough 3 or 4 times a week for the last 7 years, so I trust her judgment.)

But keep your fingers crossed.

Thanks Dave the Cook and Rachel perlow for your help and advice.

Jason

P.S. I will let you know how it turns out.

[mckayinutah]

It worked, quite well actually.

Thanks again.

Jason

[Dave the Cook]

The dough is on the bench now. We went with 8 gallons lowfat milk. My bread baker says it looks about the right consistency ( she has been making this dough 3 or 4 times a week for the last 7 years, so I trust her judgment.)

But keep your fingers crossed.

Thanks Dave the Cook and Rachel perlow for your help and advice.

Jason

P.S. I will let you know how it turns out.

I think that's what I would have done, if I'd been in your place, figuring I'd still have some leeway if it looked too stiff.

I'm glad it turned out well.

[Rachel Perlow]

Me too. Haven't used this much algebra in ages. Who says you never use math after high school?