simon gueller back at the stove?

[Scott]

It seems to me that people are becoming so involved in the etiquette of dining that they are no longer enjoying the experience as much as they could be.

Does it really matter whether or not the wine is poured for you or by you? As long as the food is up to scratch, and the service is good, informed and friendly, I would not be taken aback by either method.

←

I think I agree with you Matt, and in turn Andy, I see yet another storm in a teacup.

If Jay likes to pour his own wine, ok, if he insists on dining at a certain time, ok, but frankly I don't want to read about it. I utterly fail to see how this is an important part of conveying the important details of the meal to the readers.

Jay,

I'll happily believe that perhaps its not your intent, but this seeming petulance is getting Winner-ish.

[SamanthaF]

Matt and Scott and Andy - YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT.

Jay and Gary made a request, whether it was petty, not to you liking, or whatever - HE MADE A REQUEST. THAT (IMHO reasonable) REQUEST WAS NOT MET ON 4 (FOUR) OCCASIONS.

I would be pissed off too, and service failure - to me- would be an integral part of the meal experience.

[jayrayner]

Matt and Scott and Andy - YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT.

Jay and Gary made a request, whether it was petty, not to you liking, or whatever - HE MADE A REQUEST. THAT (IMHO reasonable) REQUEST WAS NOT MET ON 4 (FOUR) OCCASIONS.

I would be pissed off too, and service failure - to me- would be an integral part of the meal experience.

←

What Sam said.

And that's me out of this one.

[Dirk Wheelan]

Matt and Scott and Andy - YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT.

Jay and Gary made a request, whether it was petty, not to you liking, or whatever - HE MADE A REQUEST. THAT (IMHO reasonable) REQUEST WAS NOT MET ON 4 (FOUR) OCCASIONS.

I would be pissed off too, and service failure - to me- would be an integral part of the meal experience.

←

What Sam said.

And that's me out of this one.

←

I think you could have given them the benefit of the doubt. It's a rare thing for a national critic to venture so far north, and they probably fingered you straight away, perhaps they were overly nervous.

Who wouldn't be?

[Scott]

Matt and Scott and Andy - YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT.

Jay and Gary made a request, whether it was petty, not to you liking, or whatever - HE MADE A REQUEST. THAT (IMHO reasonable) REQUEST WAS NOT MET ON 4 (FOUR) OCCASIONS.

I would be pissed off too, and service failure - to me- would be an integral part of the meal experience.

←

Samantha,

I HATE to tell YOU, but caps lock doesn't really add anything to your argument.

as for your argument, if in your overly dramatic (imo) manner you consider this point to be service failure, thats fine. Do you really think though, that it would be considered total, unredeemable, irreconciled service failure by a majority of people?

it's a minor point and hardly worth bringing to the nations attention

Edited February 7, 2005 by Scott (log)

[Suzi Edwards]

Lt's draw a line under this. If you want to continue discussing the review, please do, but futher mean-spirited posts about the wine service at this restaurant and people's opinions of it will be deleted.

Cheers.

[SamanthaF]

Matt and Scott and Andy - YOU ARE ALL MISSING THE POINT.

Jay and Gary made a request, whether it was petty, not to you liking, or whatever - HE MADE A REQUEST. THAT (IMHO reasonable) REQUEST WAS NOT MET ON 4 (FOUR) OCCASIONS.

I would be pissed off too, and service failure - to me- would be an integral part of the meal experience.

←

Samantha,

I HATE to tell YOU, but caps lock doesn't really add anything to your argument.

as for your argument, if in your overly dramatic (imo) manner you consider this point to be service failure, thats fine. Do you really think though, that it would be considered total, unredeemable, irreconciled service failure by a majority of people?

it's a minor point and hardly worth bringing to the nations attention

←

Scott - one attepmted pour would be forgivable, 2 irksome but forgetful, 3 an irritation. 4 - yep - I'd be really pissed off. I've done a straw poll of my office and they agree. I work in the service industry and this breakdown would not be acceptable especially for a VIP.

It's good that we've all got our own opinions.

FWIW - I think that Jay's well written and thoughtful review would have drawn no attention at all if it had not been pulled to the front of house by Andy Lynes.

Suzi, you've encouraged people to come to this thread via the media update - (IMHO) it's a bit rich that because it's not going to EG's liking so you want it stopped now. If possible, please leave this post up. (edited if you wish) Thank you.

Edit Disclosure - Name clarification

Edited February 8, 2005 by SamanthaF (log)

[Suzi Edwards]

We do not allow mean-spirited insults or other disruptive posts. We will remove harassing or disruptive messages that bear no substantive connection to topics germane to these message boards, and users who engage in persistent patterns of harassment or disruption will be removed from the site, have their posts deleted, or have their conduct otherwise curtailed, at eGullet's discretion.

While we do not consider it our job to protect all our users' sensibilities, we forbid gratuitous nastiness and other uncivil conduct.

Quoted from the User Agreement that you agree to everytime you log into the site.

I think the discussion of whether Jay or the restaurant has gone as far as it can go.

Thanks.

[wigs21]

maybe this is just my naivete, but couldn't someone just ask the waiter for a low pour on the glass? this would take care of all the problems of seeing whether the F.O.H. communicates, seeing if the waiter pushes the bottle, and accomplishing whether proper service was delivered. I often am stuck as the designated driver and just request from my server to keep a low pour on the glass that I'm drinking when sharing a bottle of wine.

[SamanthaF]

Moving on from the wine issue - the web price versus the price on the menu at the restaurant is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

In this case, the differences were quite huge. (FWIW, the prices have now been removed from their website.) the menu . Food sounds good though.

[Andy Lynes]

If you don't keep the website up to date, you might as well not have one. I was quite shocked at the increase, I thought the opening prices were high enough.

[Scott]

Moving on from the wine issue - the web price versus the price on the menu at the restaurant is a bit of a pet peeve of mine.

In this case, the differences were quite huge. (FWIW, the prices have now been removed from their website.) the menu . Food sounds good though.

←

this the real issue, that perhaps should not be distracted from.

I think this is totally misleading, and very poor form. Regardless of what anyone's office straw poll says

[Andy Lynes]

I think we should allow them the benefit of the doubt. Small, busy restaurant with about 100 better things to do than update their website. I imagine this is an oversight rather than a deliberate attempt to mislead. They have done the intelligent thing now which is to remove the prices, although a rough indication of average spend per head would not go amiss.

[BertieWooster]

And I think we're all missing the REAL issue which is why, with both Jay and Gary on MY manor, no invite was extended to young Bertie?

The best line in the review was the one about the background music--that really gets my proverbial. Anthony's insistence on playing that foghorn-voiced dwarf Jamie Cullum every time I sit down to dine is the only thing I don't like about the place...

[Andy Lynes]

Anthony's insistence on playing that foghorn-voiced dwarf Jamie Cullum every time I sit down to dine is the only thing I don't like about the place...

←

Is that Anthony Flynn or is there an Anthony at the Box Tree as well?

[BertieWooster]

Anthony's insistence on playing that foghorn-voiced dwarf Jamie Cullum every time I sit down to dine is the only thing I don't like about the place...

←

Is that Anthony Flynn or is there an Anthony at the Box Tree as well?

←

Flinn! I meant Anthony's the restaurant rather than him personally. No idea what his, or Rena Gueller's personal taste may be--but their equal insistence on Cullum/Jones/Winehouse gets on my tits. If you want jazz, play jazz. Better still, play nothing.

[Andy Lynes]

Agree about the background music, although I think I'd prefer a spot of Norah Jones to John Coltrane honking and squawking his way through something like Ascension while I'm eating. And I'm sure early Ornette Coleman would give me indigestion.

[BertieWooster]

Nothing aids digestion like Coltrane!

[culinary bear]

I'm twenty-nine. I'm not sure I was alive in the day, though I do have an alarming memory when about nine of a hapless waiter setting fire to my father's necktie when flambeeing steak diane at the table on a gueridon.

I am happy to have wine poured for me, as long as I know the front of house staff don't use it as a vehicle for flogging more wine. Along with many others, I work in the industry and I'm very much aware of how management can apply pressure to the balls of the waiting staff and demand that they sell more wine. I hate being the recipient of the sort of 'service' this results in.

Jay is perfectly right in this case; He's paying the (not inconsiderable) bill, ergo his wishes should be respected. He has a valid reason for wanting to pour his own wine, but it shouldn't matter if he doesn't - he who pays the piper calls the tune, and as much as I hate that edict when it comes to the vapid food requests that filter through to the kitchen from the great masses via the long-suffering waiter, it's not too much to expect that the waiting staff will be able to communicate with each other.

Andy, you're right too, in a way. Treating every place the same and applying standard tests shouldn't be the way of enjoying a good meal at a restaurant. It may, however, be an intrnisic part of reviewing.

As far as requesting a low pour on the glass - if they're filling the reds up anywhere near halfway as standard then they know precisely f**k all about wine and should be marked down heavily - it's like serving tournedos rossini in a soup cup.

Edited February 12, 2005 by culinary bear (log)

[BertieWooster]

The other problem with the wine pour in t'Box Tree is that the tables and diners are so crammed in, it can be like the waiter fighting their way past three or four chairs, handbags, jackets whatever, stumbling around, which delays conversation at t'table (and knocks over neighbours) for three or four minutes. And, then, when's it happening every ten minutes AND the water refill as well...might as well have yer own personal waiter.

You can always tell selling up though, because the pour starts off reasonably, and then gets more desperate, so after two or three, the red IS filling the glass. Oh, and more and more pouring is done as the main goes on, as they're desperate to sell another bottle BEFORE selling the dessert wine.

[the count of monte christo]

it's like serving tournedos rossini in a soup cup

Great idea lets see ..

1. Dry rosti by leaving it in your airing cupboard over night, crush and place in bottom of cup.

2. strap beef fillet to the side of space shuttle and remove on return from deep space mission, tenderise in cement mixer and convert into blamange. Add to cup.

3. Place foie gras on Bakerloo line track. Scrape off and churn in ice cream machine. Add to cup.

4. Pour hot veal/maderia jus down barrel of an air gun and fire at cup from point blank range.

5. To serve- Email it to your mum who will then eat it blindfolded and reply "That was the best fish fingers I have ever eaten".

If this has already been done please accept my apologies.

[culinary bear]

ah yes, tournedos Rossini, that great Swiss-French fusion dish.

rosti? are you pissed?

[the count of monte christo]

ah yes, tournedos Rossini, that great Swiss-French fusion dish.

rosti?  are you pissed? 

←

Ok Alan, subsitute the rostie for a crouton, stick the crouton onto your forehead and holiday in Fiji until dry. Take the crouton and grind between your cookery books, sprinkle into bottom of cup. Happy now.

[culinary bear]

ecstatically, thank you.

[Andy Lynes]

Gueller feller seller teller.