NYC tap water no longer Kosher?

[slkinsey]

Orthodox Jews in New York have become concerned that the city's drinking water may not be kosher because it contains tiny crustaceans known as copepods.  

The organisms, which measure about a millimeter long, pose no threat to human health, according to the city Department of Environmental Protection. But Orthodox teaching bars the eating of crustaceans — aquatic animals with skeletons outside their bodies, including shrimp, crab and lobsters.

Also reported in the International Herald Tribune.

Hmm... I have a 0.5 micron "sediment filter" leading to a large GAC filter under my kitchen sink. Does this mean that my tap water is still kosher?

[Gifted Gourmet]

Waited until someone else brought this up here .. maybe because water isn't so much food as, well, water .. and there is a religious aspect also involved ... anyone know about the one part in sixty rule?? Actually, it doesn't actually apply here...

but since you mentioned it, decided that even if I live in Atlanta, one can't be too cautious so, in the interim, have bought a very fine micro chinois to strain my water and, of course, consulting local rabbis ...

[slkinsey]

I highly recommend the two-stage under-sink water filter here with the ceramic sediment filter and GAC ("granulated activated charcoal") filter.

NYC already has excellent water, and this baby gives me what is better than any bottled water money can buy right out of the tap. If I were living somewhere with water that is substantially more chlorinated than NYC water, I'd consider something like this a necessity. The 0.5 micron ceramic filter means that nothing that isn't dissolved in the water (including copepods) is going to make it into your glass. The GAC filter takes care of the dissolved stuff.

[VivreManger]

Perhaps you can take the crustaceans caught in the filter and cook them up as a cajun fish fry, though you might have to wait awhile to get enough.

Edited June 1, 2004 by VivreManger (log)

[Gifted Gourmet]

Crisis resolved?

Pending a definitive ruling on the matter, said Rabbi Elefant, those who want to be cautious can boil their water (it causes the organisms to disintegrate, making the water kosher), install home filtration system or drink bottled water.

therefore the answer was, in fact, correct about the home filtration system!

[wnissen]

Hello, can anyone say: river water? Try looking at it under a microscope, and you will see uncountable numbers of arthropods of all types. Suddenly river water isn't kosher? Please tell me the is a prank.

Edit: Wait, I read to the end of the IHT article, and now I'm coming to like the Schroedinger's Cat-style dilemma. If you can't tell with any given swallow whether you've ingested traif, have you really done it? Even the folks selling bug-free produce can only guarantee some fixed, finite amount of cleanliness. It seems that that's the same situation. But seriously, stuff grows in your pipes, and inside water filters. It's impossible to avoid ingesting these things in any real-world setting. All the people going out and buying water filters are just reducing their intake from 100 invisible bugs per drink to 5 invisible bugs per drink.

Walt

Edited June 1, 2004 by wnissen (log)

[Stone]

Crisis resolved?

Pending a definitive ruling on the matter, said Rabbi Elefant, those who want to be cautious can boil their water (it causes the organisms to disintegrate, making the water kosher), install home filtration system or drink bottled water.

Does this mean that I can grind up shrimp into a paste and add it kosher sauces? Or perhaps spoon some on pieces of toast and deep fry them?

[jhlurie]

I was watching the local news right about the time the tornado warnings for Bergen county were dominating, and in between weather updates they slipped in a report on this. I don't think the anchorwoman meant to be insensitive, but they cut back from the report and she was biting back laughter.

I'm not sure I blame her though. At least part of the report WAS rather comical.

Reporter to hardware store clerk selling PUR water filters recommended by the Rabbi who gave this warning:

So, does this really stop the microorganisms and make the water kosher?

Hardware store clerk:

I dunno.  I guess so.  It says 100% on the box.

Cut to shot of a huge line of Hasidim waiting in line at the hardware store, PUR water filter boxes in hand...

Cut to laughing anchorwoman.

[Bux]

If I make seafood stock by boiling shrimp, lobster and crabs along with aromatics and then run it through a PUR water filter, would it be kosher? Would the filter remove all the taste? Where are the talmudic scholars when you want one?

[Gifted Gourmet]

I was watching the local news right about the time the tornado warnings for Bergen county were dominating, and in between weather updates they slipped in a report on this.  I don't think the anchorwoman meant to be insensitive, but they cut back from the report and she was biting back laughter.

I'm not sure I blame her though.  At least part of the report WAS rather comical.

Reporter to hardware store clerk selling PUR water filters recommended by the Rabbi who gave this warning:

So, does this really stop the microorganisms and make the water kosher?

Hardware store clerk:

I dunno.  I guess so.  It says 100% on the box.

Cut to shot of a huge line of Hasidim waiting in line at the hardware store, PUR water filter boxes in hand...

Cut to laughing anchorwoman.

I am hysterically laughing at this one, Jon!! Because it has such a ring of truth to it!! and I can visualize the entire scene ...

Perhaps they need to move to the Hillcrest Jewish Center, next to the highly recommended Chinese restaurant under rabbinical supervision??

See this thread wherein Jason and I "rib" each other mercilessly .. extra ribs for takeout ....

the egg roll thread ....

[Gifted Gourmet]

Where are the talmudic scholars when you want one?

Filtering their water?? Have any of us left any religious group unoffended??

[bloviatrix]

Jon, what station was that news report on?

[Gifted Gourmet]

Jon, what station was that news report on?

Not WEVD ... aren't they extinct??

The best-remembered and most powerful of all the Yiddish radio stations was WEVD. Created in 1927 by the Socialist Party to honor its recently deceased leader, Eugene Victor Debbs, the station was taken over in 1932 by the leading Yiddish newspaper, The Forward.

a little background here on this station. Edited June 2, 2004 by Gifted Gourmet (log)

[bloviatrix]

Jon, what station was that news report on?

Not WEVD ... aren't they extinct??

WEVD (Eugene V. Debs) is sadly no long with us. It's now ESPN Sports Radio.

We have a local station called NY1 that does a segment called "In the Papers" where they highlight assorted articles in the local press. One of the articles they featured was the one in the Times about the water. This is what I awoke to this morning. I'm still shaking my head.

[Rachel Perlow]

I saw it on Channel 7 (WABC), but it wasn't exactly as Jon descrbed (with the line out the door), perhaps that was the Ch 2 (WCBS) report?

[Jason Perlow]

Jon, what station was that news report on?

Not WEVD ... aren't they extinct??

WEVD (Eugene V. Debs) is sadly no long with us. It's now ESPN Sports Radio.

We have a local station called NY1 that does a segment called "In the Papers" where they highlight assorted articles in the local press. One of the articles they featured was the one in the Times about the water. This is what I awoke to this morning. I'm still shaking my head.

Bloviatrix, being orthodox, how are you going to handle it? Buy a filter?

[bloviatrix]

Right now, the OU is saying that there's nothing to worry about so we're not making any changes. If our Rabbi comes out with a p'sak, ruling, saying this is an issue to be concerned with, we'll get a water filter.

[bloviatrix]

It seems this topic came up during the drasha(sermon) today. (Full disclosure: I didn't make it to shul this morning, so this report is from Blovie)

The Gemara makes it clear that if something isn't visible to the eye, to don't have to worry about it. There is no minority opinion on this (as there frequently is). Therefore, all the need for filters is bogus (my word).

Edited June 6, 2004 by bloviatrix (log)

[alacarte]

Blo, thanks for putting what was quickly becoming an urban myth to rest.

And: EEUUUWWWW. I hate thinking about all the little things floating in our water. Dang sea monkeys.

[Moopheus]

The Gemara makes it clear that if something isn't visible to the eye, to don't have to worry about it. There is no minority opinion on this (as there frequently is).

I wonder what those Talmudic scholars would have thought if they'd been around in the age of the microscope. Most of the really worrisome things are not visible to the eye.

[Gifted Gourmet]

The update from the NYT today ... November 10 ....

debate about whether it rendered the city's water unkosher seemed like an amusing, but esoteric dispute in a particularly exacting Jewish enclave.  But in the months since, the discovery has changed the daily lives of tens of thousands of Orthodox Jews across the city. Plumbers in Brooklyn, Manhattan and Queens have been summoned to install water filters - some costing more than $1,000 - and dozens of restaurants have posted signs in their windows trumpeting that they filter their water. As a result, an entirely new standard is being set for what constitutes a kosher kitchen.

[Stone]

The Gemara makes it clear that if something isn't visible to the eye, to don't have to worry about it.  There is no minority opinion on this (as there frequently is).

I wonder what those Talmudic scholars would have thought if they'd been around in the age of the microscope. Most of the really worrisome things are not visible to the eye.

←

Things aren't worrisome because they're unhealthy. They're worrisome because they're forbidden.

[bloviatrix]

I've been hesitant to post any additional comments but, some weeks ago our Rabbi re-addressed the issue. Several very respected Rabbinic authorities have re-evaluated the issue and it has been decided that filters are indeed needed. We will follow the ruling -- I don't anyone to feel uncomfortable eating my house.

[Pan]

Andrea, the thing I find odd about all this is that it has never been necessary to be rich to be an Orthodox Jew (as witness the many really poor Jews who used to live throughout Eastern and Central Europe and the Muslim world for centuries), and I say that in spite of the fact that one certainly pays a premium for kosher meats. If it truly is suddenly necessary to filter water with ~$1000 contraptions to remove things that no-one had ever seen with the naked eye, what's next? And who is going to pay for the filters for poor Jews in New York and other Americans towns and cities, let alone Jews facing starvation in Ethiopia? Is this going to be a major new charitable venture? (My "what's next" question is quite honestly rhetorical, but my question about a charitable venture to get water filters to all Jews who will use them is a serious one.)

[cakewalk]

Good questions, but bear in mind several things:

The issue was NYC water, so we can leave the rest of the world out of it for now. (Whew!)

Others will be able to correct me here if I'm wrong, but I think in issues such as this, a rabbi's (or even several rabbis) decision is not empirical. It matters for the people who follow that rabbi's decisions. Different communities do things differently, and Jewish law does allow for that.