Bread Baker's Apprentice? Or?

[Behemoth]

I am looking for a bread book, one that focuses on yeast breads. After reading a bunch of Amazon reviews it seems like The Bread Baker's Apprentice: Mastering the Art of Extraordinary Bread is the one to buy....but reviewers keep mentioning gas ovens. My current place has a (good) electric oven. Is anyone familiar enough with the book to tell me whether this is a deal-breaker? Or just a situation where I will get suboptimal but still good results? If it is no go, are there any other book suggestions that are more sympathetic to those of us who rent our kitchens? Thanks.

[JerzyMade]

I've been baking for a couple of months in my electric oven, based exclusively on The Bread Baker's Apprentice and I can't bake enough sourdough for my family. At two loaves every other day we're out of bread the morning after I bake.

Perhaps the result could've been better with a gas oven, but I don't have a comparison. I just use my electric one, which can be pre-heated to 550F, with a pizza stone and I spray some water. When I load the oven, I drop the temp to the recommended. Invest in a simple oven termometer that is clearly visible from the outside (most of them aren't).

If you need a book on baking, this one is excellent. Ask yourself this question: is there a book that's better optimized for baking in electric oven? I doubt it. So if you want to try baking bread this is an excellent place to start, regardless of the type of oven that you have.

[yorkshirepud]

I have The Bread Baker's Apprentice.

When I first got this book, I was using an electric oven and produced great results. The ciabatta is very good.

To be honest, I haven't used it enough. I've had it for over a year. Shame on me.

The book is very thorough and detailed.

I can't review the other book mentioned as I don't have it nor have I seen it.

JerzyMade, good for you on making sourdough. I always skips those pages - regretfully.

[slowday]

You'll get great results from the book if you focus in on Jerzymade emphasized. The pizza stone is a way to keep the heat under the bread at an even temperature while the oven cycles on and off while trying to maintain the same temperature. There was a suggestion made on another thread about placing another tile on a rack above the dough to have even heat radiating both above and below. Not sure how practical this is but it sounds like a good idea.

The oven thermometer is a more accurate way to gauge the current oven temperature, and is far better than any dial setting on the stove control panel.

If you have some extra bucks get a decent kitchen scale. Its a more accurate way to measure out your bulk ingredients and will give you more accuracy in following the formulas.

This book is definitely worth buying.

slowday

editing twice so even I can understand it....maybe

Edited May 30, 2004 by slowday (log)

[foodie3]

the book is available in most libraries - check it out and try a few things. i found it a good read, but prefer m. glezer's artisan baking across america for recipes.

Edited May 30, 2004 by foodie3 (log)

[andiesenji]

I have all of Peter's books and they are all good. This one has more details about artisan breads. I have baked many of the recipes but I actually use Crust and Crumb more than this one, mainly because I have used it longer and the recipes in the book are familiar and comfortable for me.

Peter is on the Bread-Baker's list and often posts when someone has a particular question.

I think everyone on the list has all of his books and many are much more prolific bakers than I.

If you want a broad sampling of opinions ask:

http://www.bread-bakers.com/mailing_list.html

[ronnie_suburban]

I have all of Peter's books and they are all good.

Slightly OT, but I also would like to plug Peter Reinhart's American Pie, which I think is a fantastic book. The pizza (dough) recipes that appear therein have the benefit of PR's vast bread-baking experience.

On the bread front, I also think that Breads from the La Brea Bakery by Nancy Silverton is a fantastic book. It contains a lot of great info as well as some very handy 'work-arounds' for a variety of limitating factors. This book had a major influence on me (could say it changed my life) and I highly recommend it.

Also, Beard on Bread has been a great source of both information and inspiration for me. It's an invaluable resource.

I've also heard some really great things about the Alford & Duguid books--and I own a couple--but I haven't baked from them yet.

=R=

[Behemoth]

Thanks for all the responses! I was spoiled in Philly, what with both Metropolitan and Le Bus in town, I never bothered to make my own (plus my oven was tiny). In my new place the closest we get to real bread is the "shipped half-frozen, baked in store" La Brea stuff that is a) v. expensive, for supermarket bread and b) hit-or-miss, depending on how good the supermarket staff is on that particular day. The supermarket that carries this annoys me in general. It is the supposedly "fancy" one in town, but as I like to call it, "Pathmark quality at Whole Foods prices".

So, I have decided to take matters into my own hands.

Also, my husband really loves Ciabatta and we can't get it anywhere here except at (Bleh) Panera.

Oh, I looked at the La Brea book as well, but it seems like everything starts with a sourdough base. I like sourdough sometimes but not all the time, and my husband doesn't care for it at all.

Edited May 30, 2004 by Behemoth (log)

[andiesenji]

I have all of Peter's books and they are all good.

Slightly OT, but I also would like to plug Peter Reinhart's American Pie, which I think is a fantastic book. The pizza (dough) recipes that appear therein have the benefit of PR's vast bread-baking experience.

=R=

Still slightly OT but I have to agree with you about American Pie. Peter asked for volunteers to test recipes for the book and many of the bakers on the B-B digest contributed and are mentioned in the book. Bob Koontz, a very good friend of mine, tested several.

I have made several pizza from the book and every one has been far superior to my earlier efforts.

He takes the guesswork out of it.

I have had quarry tiles in my oven since I first had it installed. Although it is a commercial gas oven, it still loses heat if the doors are opened. The stone or tiles maintain an even temperature in the oven even if the door has to be opened. There are other advantages, you can bake directly on the stone if you are making rustic loaves and pies placed on the stone have better bottom crusts than those baked directly on a rack or on a sheet pan.

This effect works in an electric oven as well as gas.

[chefdg]

The Bread Builders by Allen Scot and Danielle Wang is another great atrisan bread book. In my opinion, as long as your oven can get as hot as you want it and can hold your bread, don't beat yourself up about it, good bread comes from good dough, consentrate on that.

[jackal10]

I have to say I don't terribly care for the Reinhart books, or the Silverton.

I love "Bread Builders" and Joe Ortiz's Village Baker, but the one for me is Dan Lepard's Baking with Passion.

[ronnie_suburban]

I have to say I don't terribly care for the Reinhart books, or the Silverton.

Look at these loaves! (baked by jackal10)

They should be reading you, Jack

=R=

[Behemoth]

Just looked at Bread Builders on Amazon -- seems very cool but I am probably not allowed to build a brick oven on the patio of my rental. Though come to think of it, it says nothing about that in the lease....

Actually, I confess I happened to go to the local Borders for something and they happened to have the Bread Bakers Apprentice and I happened to open it and start reading and, yeah, I happened fall in love with the pictures and buy it. I am such an easy mark.

I plan to try some something in the next week, first I need to see if my local supermarkets carry instant yeast. Don't laugh, only one of them carries flat parsley.

Speaking of brick ovens -- I wrote about this in another thread, but I grew up in the middle east and some friends of ours used one for their flatbreads. You have to reach inside the thing at full blast and kind of "thwack" the bread onto the wall. Could kick myself now for being too chicken at the time to try doing it myself. Would have been a very impressive party trick over here, though there it was the 10-year old daughters who were doing it.

[Behemoth]

And that is some BEAUTIFUL bread. What sort of oven is that? And would you be willing to move to central Illinois?

[Berlinsbreads]

I have to plug Nancy Silverton's book, too. It really did change my bread baking life! I made her sourdough using grapes and that whole process and then almost all the breads in the book. Over time, though, I have gotten lazy and started spiking the dough with commercial yeast, too. I just don't have the time anymore to work around the sourdough's schedule! The breads in the book are wonderful staples in my repetoire!

The Baker's Apprentice came out later than Silverton's book so I haven't had as much time with it but I love it and also Artisan Breads Across America--there's some great stuff in that one, too.

So many books, so little time!

[Lesley C]

Nancy Silverton's book ruined my life for a good two weeks. Building that starter and keeping it going was not only expensive but a massive waste of time. I don't know how much organic flour went directly down my drain. I once brought it to a friend's dinner party to feed it.

I would never, ever, go through that again. But then again, I live in a city with great bread, so my home-baked bread days are over. The Silverton experience killed it for me.

[ronnie_suburban]

Nancy Silverton's book ruined my life for a good two weeks. Building that starter and keeping it going was not only expensive but a massive waste of time. I don't know how much organic flour went directly down my drain. I once brought it to a friend's dinner party to feed it.

I would never, ever, go through that again. But then again, I live in a city with great bread, so my home-baked bread days are over. The Silverton experience killed it for me.

LMAO! Lesley, I know exactly what you're saying. My wife and I joked that our starter needed more care and attention than a child. How many 5# bags of King Arthur flour did we go through while feeding that 'kid'? LOTS OF THEM! I was LOL'ing and gasping for air when I read that you brought your starter to a party.

Still, I learned so much from my Silverton experience and it came at a time in my life when it was a great fit for me. I know this sounds very cheezy but I learned a lot--not only about bread-baking--but also about myself as I worked my way through her book. I wouldn't trade those times for anything, but I also don't think I could go back there again either. I just don't have that kind of time to spare these days (even if I were to stop posting here ) but in many ways, I wish I did.

=R=

[jackal10]

And that is some BEAUTIFUL bread. What sort of oven is that? And would you be willing to move to central Illinois?

Thanks!

You can read my stuff on eGCI.

The oven is a AGA - lots of solid cast iron.

I do find baking books intended for professional use better.

"Baking, The Art and Science", Schuneman and Trey, Baker Tech Inc, ISBN 0-9693795-0 is excellent with very helpful diagrams and pictures, not only of things going right, but also various defects and how to correct them.

Also good is, of course, Professer Cavel's "The Taste of Bread".

And no I wouldn't move to Illinois, especially with the current politics

Why not move to Europe? The environment is more benign, climate better, Gastronomy is held as a key value, and the bread is often more interesting.

[slowday]

Nancy Silverton's book ruined my life for a good two weeks. Building that starter and keeping it going was not only expensive but a massive waste of time. I don't know how much organic flour went directly down my drain. I once brought it to a friend's dinner party to feed it.

I would never, ever, go through that again. But then again, I live in a city with great bread, so my home-baked bread days are over. The Silverton experience killed it for me.

Here's a link to a video where the grape starter method is demonstrated:

http://pbs-juliachild.virage.com/cgi-bin/v...Keyword=&page=2

[Behemoth]

And no I wouldn't move to Illinois, especially with the current politics

Why not move to Europe? The environment is more benign, climate better, Gastronomy is held as a key value, and the bread is often more interesting.

Oh, I didn't realize you were in Europe -- may I ask where? I go to Germany about twice a year to visit family and I stuff myself with good bread the entire time I'm there. There is a good possibility we will return to Europe at some point, but right now our careers are very well served here. European food is great, European academic job market, not so great. In the meantime, Illinois politics are actually far less depressing than the rest of the country's (Obama!).

I like technical books also -- will definitely look for the two you suggested. I do math for a living so I like the idea of "self study". But the idea of babysitting sourdough starter is terrifying to me. I already find my 5 or 6 herb plants to be too heavy of a commitment I never knew about the grape method though. That is so cool I am almost (almost) tempted to try it. Maybe when I am traveling less.

(edited for all sorts of reasons)

Edited June 5, 2004 by Behemoth (log)

[pastramionrye]

i bought the bread bakers apprentice, and it is a good base of knowledge for formulas'etc....

but for baking in an electric oven, i use the La Cloche, and my breads have beeen coming out looking like they were baked ina a wood burning hearth.

i strongly recommend it (it costs about $50) though you can only bake one loaf at a time....