ADNY (Alain Ducasse @ Essex House)

[Bux]

"If the experience was as Bruni describes it".

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There's another thread -- Bruni and Beyond: NYC Reviewing that delves deeper into the issue of how well Bruni describes things and opens up a broader discussion of his credibility as a reviewer of various kinds of restaurants and dining. My point in responding to you was not to question your statement, but to emphasize my hesitation to accept that particular statement of Bruni's at face value. Then again, all reviews should be read with skepticism. Perhaps that's true about everything we read or hear.

[Portia]

Changing of the Guard...

Clearly there must be something going on beneath the surface that we do not know about... this restaurant, based on reputation and the article almost seemed to define what a 4 star restaurant is or was... yes, it is a little ostentatious and maybe the columns in the dining room are too big... maybe there are too many different steak knives to choose from, but to give a restaurant like this 3 stars? It seems that a new reality has set in the upper echelons of haute cuisine...not to be so haute.

For instance Fat Duck in Bray, England recently received its third Michelin star. It's style --a blend of science and traditional cuisine along with a very unpretentious atmosphere --green carpet and wooded ceiling beams seem to be in stark contrast to Ducasse and the Essex House. So while controversial, maybe all this chemistry in the kitchen will become de rigeur: diners will be trading in their Mt Blanc pens (to sign their bill with) for test tubes, beakers, and perfectly cooked haricot verts.

Edited February 6, 2005 by Portia (log)

[docsconz]

For all of those who say that a critique needs to be based on more than one visit or that anyplace can make mistakes, I say sure, but at the price point for this restaurant, I for one, do not have the luxury of multiple visits, especially if I'm not blown away. A restaurant gets one shot at me at these prices and it better damn well be near perfect. I have no doubt that ADNY can and does perform better than it did for me that night I was there. The fact that a number of people who have posted on this topic, whose opinions I greatly respect, are in awe of it makes me certain of that. Nevertheless, I simply cannot afford to give tht restaurant another chance on my dime. Now if someone wants to take me to persuade me otherwise, I would be happy to give them a second chance Don't get me wrong, most of the food I had was excellent when, but IMO despite all the luxury aspects, my overall experience was certainly less than four star.

[Bux]

. . . A restaurant gets one shot at me at these prices and it better damn well be near perfect.

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I believe it was Steingarten who said about Arpège, that it took him eight visits to understand it.

[docsconz]

. . . A restaurant gets one shot at me at these prices and it better damn well be near perfect.

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I believe it was Steingarten who said about Arpège, that it took him eight visits to understand it.

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It would be nice to have that luxury. I am imagine that Mr. Steingarten was able to expense those meals. Nevertheless, I do not believe the flaws I experienced were due to a lack of understanding on my part. If a restaurant charges what they do, they should be subject to tighter criticism.

[Bux]

. . . A restaurant gets one shot at me at these prices and it better damn well be near perfect.

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I believe it was Steingarten who said about Arpège, that it took him eight visits to understand it.

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It would be nice to have that luxury. I am imagine that Mr. Steingarten was able to expense those meals. Nevertheless, I do not believe the flaws I experienced were due to a lack of understanding on my part. If a restaurant charges what they do, they should be subject to tighter criticism.

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Part of my criticism of Bruni's review was that I was left, if not exactly knowing he didn't understand the restaurant, wondering if he understood it, from his comments on food as well as service. I believe Passard's simplicity is more elusive than Ducasse's cooking, although, as I mentioned, I've not been to ADNY since Delouvrier has been in the kitchen. Anyway, absolute perfection is a terrible burden to put on any restaurant. The more I am conscious of the price of a meal, the less apt I am to enjoy it. Any expensive restaurant is always at least as much a restaurant for rich people as it is about food. At the four star level I do not believe price should be a factor. No one gets four stars because of value. If ADNY is only as good as the least of the four star restaurants in NY and costs twice as much, it's still worthy of four stars. It's just not a value four star meal. If Daniel were to double its prices tomorrow, it might become a poor value, but it would still be a four star restaurant. Many people seem to have the impression that Bruni felt ADNY could earn four stars by making some improvements or removing some unnecessary luxuries. There are no necessary luxuries.

Because of his emphasis on other things, I harbored the sense that Bruni's faults with the food were faults he needed to find. I've repeatedly said I'm generally far more pleased at a two star restaurant than at a three star one in France, but it doesn't lead me to suggest those two star restaurants deserve a third star faster than the those who already have it.

I was surprised to read in your post that ADNY was turning tables. That's common however at most of the other four star restaurants. I've always found the freedom of knowing you can arrive much later or earlier than your reserved time to be a great luxury, though I'm not sure it's got a price value to me. At Per Se however, they were quite specfic about the time I was expected in spite of not turning tables. It's not the only thing that affects the pace of a meal. I know Mrs. B has told me to slow down when she feels a meal is progressing too quickly and she feels the staff is picking up the wrong signals from us. Reviews are always subjective in part and no reviewer will please every reader or diner, but I've heard some of the same sort of thing from professionals that I heard when Daniel got three stars, and that's expressions of disbelief. The reaction is not so much a sense of not believing ADNY is failing to meet the standards for the club, but not understanding what standards are being set.

[docsconz]

Bux, your post is as usual well thought out and well written. My comments regarding Bruni's review was that they seemed to resonate with my own impressions in this case. I don't expect absolute perfection anywhere, after all these people are human too.

I might actually have been more impressed had I not ordered the truffle menu. I had the sense that there was a lot of luxury for its own sake rather than because it provided true enhancement. The presence of the truffles almost seemed like an excuse to let up on the other components of the dishes with the glorious exception of the shrimp sauce.

As for the price being an issue - some of my best meals have been obscenely expensive, albeit not this obscenely expensive. I will return to a very expensive restaurant if I feel it has been worth it. Per Se, Can Fabes and Arzak are examples of restaurants of this caliber I would love to return to. Interestingly, I find myself more forgiving on subsequent visits if my first one satisfied me.

[Bux]

Interestingly, I find myself more forgiving on subsequent visits if my first one satisfied me.

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This is a whole subthread and I won't dwell on it here, but few of us are immune to this. Few of us who don't eat professionally have the time or money to pursue restaurants that don't charm us in the first place, but once a restaurant has built a line of credit, we can all become most forgiving. So much of it is chance, but first dates and first meals are often the beginning of a long relationship, or not.

[MobyP]

Valentine's Menu

Winter root vegetables in a ?cocotte?, tuber melanosporum

Duck foie gras « sauté », lemon/blood orange marmalade, aged vinegar

Turbot cooked in a ?beurre demi-sel?, braised salsify in a court bouillon

Free-range veal/black truffles, fingerling potatoes, glazed carrot blossoms, natural jus

Home made raspberry sorbet, vanilla ice cream,

coconut merinque, like a classic "vacherin"

$ 180.00 (Not including wine, tax and gratuity)

[Pan]

Interesting menu. I had no idea people ate carrot flowers, if that's really what "carrot blossoms" are (that is, if they aren't carrots carved into flower shapes). I googled "tuber melanosporum" and got "Black Winter Truffle" and simply "Black Truffle" as results.

[Jon Tseng]

ADNY gets a fairly lengthy kicking from the Times in London today

Excess on a plate: my $890 Ducasse disaster

On to the next course — “wild Alaskan salmon, lightly cooked, béarnaise reduction”. So far, it was not the quality of the food that had ruined the evening. The salmon, however, was a disgrace — overcooked and dry, utterly flavourless and crumbling as soon as it was touched by a fork. Still, at least I know that I cook better salmon than Alain Ducasse’s kitchen staff.

By now, we had been eating barely a third of the food on our plates. Call me an idiot, but I was determined not to complain and instead to see what it would take — heart failure, perhaps? — to interrupt the onward march of the food. How much would we have to leave before they made the inquiry, “Is everything OK?” The answer, I discovered, was that at no point in the evening would the waiting staff make even the slightest attempt to give a damn.

It turned out to be academic anyway. Nicky’s rum-baba, “Monte-Carlo Style”, consisted of what tasted like stale sponge smothered in cream. My “pear declination, caramel ice-cream, topped with lace biscuits” was almost inedible, the caramel burnt over an assemblage of diced, tasteless pear.

(unfortunately, viewers in foreign climes may need to subscribe to see this)

J

Edited February 9, 2005 by Jon Tseng (log)

[crosparantoux]

this link may work w/out registration:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,632-1475488,00.html

(I'm in the Fat Guy camp. I haven't had a less than perfect meal from Ducasse.)

[jogoode]

this link  may work w/out registration:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,632-1475488,00.html

(I'm in the Fat Guy camp. I haven't had a less than perfect meal from Ducasse.)

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Thanks for the link.

A little overstatement goes a long way to undermine a reader's confidence in a writer. The author of this piece overstated a lot. I found I had trouble believing a word of what he wrote. Does anyone know if he is a regular writer for the London Times?

Edited February 9, 2005 by jogoode (log)

[R Washburn]

I wonder if dining in the middle of a blizzard might affect the ADNY experience. I guess the writer feels that real 4-star restaurant should ALWAYS deliver a 4-star experience.

[Jon Tseng]

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Thanks for the link.

A little overstatement goes a long way to undermine a reader's confidence in a writer. The author of this piece overstated a lot. I found I had trouble believing a word of what he wrote. Does anyone know if he is a regular writer for the London Times?

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A fair reputable political commentator.

Certainly not some callow youth out to make a quick buck, although certainly out to make a splash.

http://www.stephenpollard.net/biography.html

J

[DutchMuse]

I simply find the writer and article not credible. It isn't believable. I do not believe food started arriving within a second after ordering, and that the courses were so large to be each a full course from a tasting menu. Simply not credible. Also, the writing is poor. It's hyperbole to the extent he appears to have an ax to grind, such as in the herd of elephands comment. I am under the impression the Times of London is quite a solid paper, though. Weird.

[iamthestretch]

For what it's worth, the Washington Post's restaurant critic, Tom Sietsema, basically agreed with Bruni in his online chat today, saying he had never had a four-star meal at ADNY.

"Rockville, MD: In light of the recent review by Frank Bruni of Alain Ducasse at the Essex House, which resulted in the plunge of the restaurant's rating status from a 4-star to a 3-star, does your own experience, based on your most recent visit (if you've had the opportunity to dine at this establishment), echo Frank Bruni's or do you feel the place deserves better?

Tom Sietsema: Honestly? I never had a four-star experience at Ducasse -- either before or after the glowing review from William Grimes, then the restaurant critic."

How much of that is pure DC/NY animus, I leave to others to decide. He did praise Per Se to the skies, though.

[Bricktop]

From reading this thread, I get the impression for the most part that both ADNY's defenders and his critics are too fervent. However, there is sufficient evidence from both sides that leads me to believe there is enough inconsistency in the ADNY experience that I would not want to roll the dice at what looks at close to a grand for dinner for two.

[docsconz]

The experience recounted in the UK article is more critical and exaggerated than my own experience written earlier in this thread, but one of his principle criticisms echoes my own. The pace of the dinner was way too fast. While the general quality of our food was quite good, there were lapses in quality. In particular my fish, turbot in my case, was overcooked and tasteless. While I don't believe I commented on it earlier, the quantity of food was in fact daunting. My wife and I literally (ok a little exaggeration here) rolled out of the restaurant and we couldn't even eat any of the mignardises . I would have preferred to shave the food quantity by half and the price by a quarter.

The sense I get from my own and other less than stellar experiences and then the glowing reports from people whose opinions I absolutely respect is that this restaurant has a serious case of multiple personalities. When it is on, it is awesome and probably worth the price, but when it is a little bit off....

[tan319]

Does anyone know if Gordon Ramseys food is on the light side?

Just wondering because I've had a couple of experiences with tasting menus, albeit the first time was a long time ago.

I first did a tasting menu at Aureole in 94 or so, and it was kind of heavy, portions were kind of large, I wouldn't say it was a real comfortable experience, even though everything was cooked excellently.

It was a lot of food.

Cut to 2000.

I did the tasting menu/wine pairing at Union Pacific, the big one, and it was a revelation.

Wonderful food, wonderfully paced.

Outstanding experience.

Sorry to read about these bad experiences, for the diner AND ADNY.

Forget about the price, no one should be getting a seriously overcooked fish or anything else for that matter from a kitchen of this caliber.

Chefs used to practically kill cooks for stuff like that.

What happened?

[SobaAddict70]

This lamb dish illustrates the more rustic end of the ADNY menu. It's meat and potatoes served with just enough panache to remind you of where you are. The lamb is browned in butter and the potatoes are finished in a rich lamb jus before being plated.

And, as Fat Guy mentioned, if all goes well I'll be going back at a later date to visit the pastry kitchen.

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Still drooling over those photos.

Any chance of a visit with the pastry chefs soon?

Soba

[tan319]

A visit with the pastry chefs would be sooooo boss!

I'm smitten with the 'Desserts et Patisserie' Roberts/Ducasse Grand Livres edition.

Can't wait, Good Luck!!!

[intraining]

i think the bad press must be due to the fact i'm not trailing there anymore [:(]

[:)]

[tan319]

Well, there you go!!!

The explanation for all of this bad stuff.

Rejoice, Fat Guy!!!

Dude, get back to trailing, would you?

[intraining]

i'm on it!