Food Deconstructors

[Pan]

You know, I do ask people before I have them over and I'm more than willing to deal with vegetarians, religious beliefs and food allergies. But when you start to question 6-8 people about their particular food preferences, you're not talking about having a dinner party anymore - you're beginning to be running a restaurant!

I'd either have to make everything so bland and boring that cooking would be a chore or cook to order for each guest.

They're so picky that you can't make things that all of them will like (Dish X for 1/3 of them, Dish Y for another third, etc.) without cooking individually to order? And they're your husband's friends? How about making your husband cook, then.

[SKinCA]

It actually works out that way. There are a group of his friends that I will no longer cook for - he cooks for them himself or takes them out.

And I was probably indulging in a little bit of whining hyperbole - it isn't as bad as running a restaurant - but I do find grown people to be rather babyish about food.

Since I will eat almost anything (and have!) I find people who won't try things trying.

Don't get my started on my father-in-law's wife, who once brought her own food to dinner party......grrrrrr.

edited for a missing word

Edited May 23, 2004 by SKinCA (log)

[Mabelline]

My ex (Thank the Stars) ate mushrooms premarriage so enthusiastically that one meal I made crab-stuffed mushrooms. He sat there looking at the plate so morosely, that I thought "Oh, no, he hates crab!" Then he looks at me and says, "I gotta tell you--I can't stand mushrooms..." I did not know whether to be embaressed, or wring his neck. On reflection, I should've wrung his neck.

[Suzanne F]

I am firmly on the side of those who dislike seeing others pick stuff out of food just because they don't like it.

That said, I see it as the picker's problem, not mine. Especially since I ask if there is anything my guests cannot eat. Note that it is CANNOT, as in: what would make you ill if you eat it, not WILL NOT, as in: I will cater to your private mishigas and change my menu just because you don't like something.

And as for:

Sorry, but who benefits from it if you choke down something out of politeness? Your host? Unless I am unconscious or not wearing my contacts, I am going to notice someone doing that rapid mouth-breathing chew -- and it will worry me, because I will not know it is the diced red peppers she loathes . . .

Both guest and host benefit. Perhaps guest discovers that the dreaded pepper is not so bad after all, and remains a POLITE GUEST; and the unknowing host has the opportunity to ASK WHAT'S WRONG, and then decide whether that guest is worth cooking for ever again or not.

[Rebel Rose]

I generally don't get along too well with people who don't love food and also do the euuuw thing, it's behavior that crosses into many other areas aside from food.

So true. When we entertain we never worry about who consumes what. Our friends tend to have robust and adventurous appetites.

I have encountered fussy dining behavior at formal winemaker dinners (but then the stories I could tell would start a whole new thread)!

I've noticed that people who actually have a food sensitivity are delicate about upsetting other people, or coming across as prima donnas. They ask ahead of time, or remove the item discreetly, or refuse a dish quietly and politely, and if someone near them notices, they will quietly explain their allergy so as not to gross out the entire table.

On the other hand, I've sat across from people who disect all kinds of things out of their dishes, a little pile here, a little pile there, sighing mightily at the irresponsibility of chefs and hosts who would burden their delicate digestive systems with such abominations.

My recommendation is to just maintain a sense of humor. Unless the picky eater is your boss, just let your guests entertain you--and us!

[nessa]

I don't get offended when someone picks something out of something I've made. When I invite people over, its because I enjoy their company and I like to please folks with food. For me, its not about ME its about the pleasure they get out of eating what I've created. I have no problem asking 20 people their tastes, their likes, dislikes, allergies etc. before I plan a meal. I want them to be happy, and there's just so many dishes to choose from that I'm positive that everyone's needs and desires can be accomodated. Sometimes its a challenge and I find that to be a lot of fun. Its not my place to lecture them that they really might like peas, they should just try them again. They don't like peas? Their loss, more for me, have some broccoli. Its their right to be picky.

It is NOT their right to be rude, and harp on my culinary inadequacies. I always ask someone's preferences, so if they didn't tell me, then its up to them to decide to choke it down, or pick it out, or not eat the dish. My cousin doesn't like the taste or smell of oregano. Weird, but ok. My SO won't touch peas. I think its silly, he's not had them since he was a kid, but why waste the energy trying to convince him he's wrong? He's a big boy. He doesn't like onions or celery pieces that are large enough for him to see, and therefor pick out. Fine, I've a food processor .

Anyway, thats my take on it. I'm not saying that you don't have every right to be ticked if someone deconstructs your food. So long as they keep their paws off my plate, I'm happy.

[Mabelline]

There's got to some phrase for people who you KNOW eat bacon but act like they subsist on lettuce leaves and mineral water.  Something like, "backseat drivers."  Any ideas, folks?

Closeted lipophiliacs.

[CompassRose]

Nessa has it on the nose. I am not anyone's mother (thank the gods) and it is not my mission to make anybody eat something they do not wish to eat. Or to presume that my Mastery of Cuisine is such that I will convert them to lovers of whatever it is.

Their reasons for not wishing to eat it are their own. If I like them, and I'm feeding them, I try and please them. If I don't like them enough to want to please them, I won't be feeding them in the first place.

[Sleepy_Dragon]

One time, my partner had never encountered bok choy before, and her first mouthful, she tried to chew and swallow, but it literally made her gag and run to the bathroom and throw up the rest of her meal. Would people be berating her for being rude? My only concern was her well-being that night, and making sure she had tea to drink.

For the record, I agree about gradually teaching oneself to like things. I do this too, it took me four or five tries before I learned to enjoy uni (raw sea urchin) for example. But still, the first time I tasted it, there was just no way in hell I was going to be able to swallow it, and I didn't. Same for the second and third time.

I'm still trying to teach myself to like big gloppy solid globs of tomato, bell pepper and onion, but it's been a few years now, and the texture really just isn't going to fly. I suspect I'm going to acquire a taste for natto (also an ongoing project) before acquiring one for those globs, and will probably just flat out give up on them at some point. It's a texture thing, and I might add just about the only thing I really cannot swallow. Other items I dislike and can still swallow, but not these.

If you're able to control your body so strongly as to prevent that level of wretching and pull off a charming witty conversation on top of the facade, more power to you, I guess. But past a certain point, I just don't think it's very productive to take on a "If I can do it why can't you?" stance.

I'll still try things I don't like when other people make them, but it's better to not find oneself in such a situation in the first place, which is easily done by turning down the first invitation, then later on expressing regret for missing it and inquiring how the event went, and details about the food. People generally love to talk about that kind of thing. "So what kind of a chop did you use for those tomatoes? Yeah? Then you simmered them and ate up each juicy chunk with a fork?" Voila. Info.

As for dealing with non-foodies, I dunno... I still gotta ask, why bother with the torture in the first place? At the risk of sounding like that much maligned bumper sticker, life's too short to eat with non-foodies.

It's easy enough to find out about someone's eating habits, for the sole and simple reason that people love to talk about themselves. Voila. Info. Before any thought of invitation even crosses one's mind, why not ask what they like to eat just as a matter of course in a conversation of getting to know each other? I mean, I just do that anyway because food tells so much about a person and it's endlessly interesting anyway.

Family style dinner also helps, rather than insisting on teasing each individual's plate to spec. Let everyone scoop up what they want, watch, then decide if a more fancy production later on is warranted.

Or go to a restaurant together -first-, and observe.

Pat

[ingridsf]

The bottom line for me, at this particular moment, is that I'm no longer charmed by the idea of feeding 6-8 people, when perhaps four of them are excluding entire classes of food from their diet at any given time. Sugars. Salt (not because of any diagnosed reason.) Nightshades. Grains except for quinoa. Meat except shrimp, salmon and white meat chicken. At one time, I did think it was charming and delightful to express my affection for them by trying to cook meals they would all enjoy as a group. Now, grump that I have become, all I notice is how these wills of multiple minorities are in constant flux.

Of course I ask people about their needs and preferences-- how else would I know all of this? My feeling right now is that both the host and guest have an opportunity to share food, a tremendous bond of intimacy when you think about it. There is a difference between a need and a desire -- someone may need to abstain from nuts while another prefers to avoid carbohydrates. BTW, I really don't care if someone leaves a mushroom on their plate (sorry, gifted gourmet!) just as they might leave a hot pepper. It's the ATTITUDE, folks. That one night of change in what you eat is simply unthinkable.

I certainly am glad not everyone is as big a grump as I am or in my entertaining slump right now. Maybe I'll get inspired here....

[andiesenji]

The bottom line for me, at this particular moment, is that I'm no longer charmed by the idea of feeding 6-8 people, when perhaps four of them are excluding entire classes of food from their diet at any given time.

I certainly am glad not everyone is as big a grump as I am or in my entertaining slump right now. Maybe I'll get inspired here....

I know exactly what you mean. It is one thing to avoid certain foods because of an allergy. It is another thing to exclude an entire group of foods for what I consider idiotic reasons.

The Low Carb diet has seemingly taken over the nation. I simply do not believe a diet so restrictive can be healthy. My main complaint is when someone that wears a size 2 and looks from the back like she left a coat hanger in her sweater, tells me that she can't have any carbs and doesn't even want to see them on the table.

I simply suggested that she and her boyfriend come to dinner at a later date when she was eating a normal diet because I had three other couples coming for dinner and I was going to serve normal food for normal appetites and that would include some carbs. She got a bit huffy with me and made a remark about my weight (I am considerably overweight) and that I would probably benefit from the low carb diet. I finished her off by telling her that I had a chronic kidney problem and a high protein diet would cause harm.

I thought she had an amazing amount of chutzpa in asking me to cater to her and ignore the wishes of other guests.

[Sleepy_Dragon]

The bottom line for me, at this particular moment, is that I'm no longer charmed by the idea of feeding 6-8 people, when perhaps four of them are excluding entire classes of food from their diet at any given time. Sugars. Salt (not because of any diagnosed reason.) Nightshades. Grains except for quinoa. Meat except shrimp, salmon and white meat chicken. At one time, I did think it was charming and delightful to express my affection for them by trying to cook meals they would all enjoy as a group. Now, grump that I have become, all I notice is how these wills of multiple minorities are in constant flux.

(...)

I certainly am glad not everyone is as big a grump as I am or in my entertaining slump right now. Maybe I'll get inspired here....

Yeah, I can understand that, and agree about the attitude as well. I don't like it either.

Even so, if a group was that dissimilar in dietary preferences or whatever, why not just do a potluck or go out to a restaurant, or do something not related to food? I mean, I guess I'm assuming you like these people, which to be honest, makes no sense to me at all given my own experiences with the interminably vocally fussy, but ok, I'm not you, don't have the whole picture, yadda...

What is it the rest of the group does when someone else decides to do a dinner party?

genuinely curious,

Pat

[NeroW]

There's got to some phrase for people who you KNOW eat bacon but act like they subsist on lettuce leaves and mineral water.  Something like, "backseat drivers."  Any ideas, folks?

Closeted lipophiliacs.

Liars?

[SKinCA]

Even so, if a group was that dissimilar in dietary preferences or whatever, why not just do a potluck or go out to a restaurant, or do something not related to food?

Not related to food? Getting woozy...universe spinning out of control...got to remain concious......no food???

AAAARRGGGGGHHH!

[Sleepy_Dragon]

Ok, seriously though, it's either do something non-food related if you genuinely like the people in question (), or accept that you're going to explore your masochistic side.

I (heart) my relationship arrangement. People we both like we hang with together, people only one of us gets on with, the other is not made to hang with unless they choose to, in which case it's expected of them to be gracious, and best of all, she likes the tomato, onion and bell pepper globs and hates eggplant, so I pass her all my globs in trade for the eggplant. Bliss!

Pat

[ingridsf]

Perhaps what I needed was a place to vent, cause I feel much better about the whole thing now. I love my friends, and several are exploring dietary programs because of weight, overall fatigue, or just trying to see if something will make them feel better. I'm much more skeptical about the power of controlling food intake in regard to long-term health. I've worked on the issue of environmental toxins, body burden, and human health. While I would never advocate stuffing your face with nothing but steak and bacon (well, hardly ever advocate), I now believe that the more serious dangers are ones we hear little to nothing about.

At the risk of inciting a riot, I should disclose I'm a size 0 who has a certain coat-hanger appeal herself. LOL! I think i should respond to my next dinner party invitation by saying I have to have extra chicken skin, a chocolate milkshake and my own loaf of bread. Ha!

Ingrid

PS Telling someone they should check out any diet is RUDE. "No soup for you!"

[morda]

When I cook for people, I generally know or try to find out if they are vegeterians, or don't eat red meat, are allegeric to seafood, etc. Just general meat categories. And I try to find out if they like spicy food or not. Then I just cook. In the past, guest would eat what they could/would from what was placed in front of them, and hosts ignored whether the guests ate or not. No one on either side made a big deal out of the situation. That's the attitude I try to take, and I don't get upset if people left things on their plate (unless it's the entire dinner). Then again, I've never had someone give me a laundry list of things they don't eat. I probably wouldn't react very well to that...particular if I am having several people over at once.

morda

[Sleepy_Dragon]

Perhaps what I needed was a place to vent, cause I feel much better about the whole thing now. I love my friends, and several are exploring dietary programs because of weight, overall fatigue, or just trying to see if something will make them feel better. I'm much more skeptical about the power of controlling food intake in regard to long-term health. I've worked on the issue of environmental toxins, body burden, and human health. While I would never advocate stuffing your face with nothing but steak and bacon (well, hardly ever advocate), I now believe that the more serious dangers are ones we hear little to nothing about.

Ah. Ok. Well, I apologize for coming across like a condescending yammerhead here. And I agree about being skeptical as well, and hope your friends are finding other things to talk about aside from proselityzing about their diets. Can certainly understand being frustrated with it.

If you do order your chicken like that, maybe borrow a line from Marge Simpson when she gets Homer some fried chicken just the way he likes it: "No meat. Extra skin."

Pat

[spinoza]

Someone I know just likes to play with her food. She eats pizza topping but not the crust. And the batter off a fried steak.

Someone else I know eats nothing but meat and some form of carbohydrate. When he went to Italy, he subsisted on spaghetti bolognese, no cheese. And he came back and complained that people in Italy weren't very friendly.

[Mabelline]

spinoza, welcome! I am finding that as I age, I am not prepared to hassle myself with pain in the butt guests. If they eat, fine...if they play with the food like an erector set, fine as well. If the real party monsters are there, I just remind myself that, hey, it could be worse--I could have the big pains in the butt who I'm related to there as well!!

[nessa]

She got a bit huffy with me and made a remark about my weight (I am considerably overweight) and that I would probably benefit from the low carb diet. I finished her off by telling her that I had a chronic kidney problem and a high protein diet would cause harm.

I thought she had an amazing amount of chutzpa in asking me to cater to her and ignore the wishes of other guests.

That is simply ungracious, rude and inexcuseable. NO one has the right to tell you what you can and can't serve, or have in their Royal Presence. If she doesn't want to eat carbs, fine, don't.

But to then overstep her boundaries even further to comment on your weight, is crass, ugly and bitchy. Certainly someone I'd simply cross off my friends list.

You can lose weight, whats she gonna do, get a personality transplant?

I'm about 30 pounds overweight myself, and constantly working and whittling it down. Used to be 80 pounds overweight. Its a long, nasty battle.

I have a friend who has known me the whole time. She's considerably overweight, and we have, over the years, dieted and exercised together.

She's a big believer in diets. This time shes doing a no salt, eat 6 times a day thing. When she told me about it, I thought about trying to dissuade her from it. Basically all it does is reduce her calorie intake and spread it out. In my opinion she can do that on her own and still eat foods that she likes. Whole eggs not just whites, etc. But, in her mind, it WORKS for her. She sees results and gives her the confidence to keep on keeping on. I think its a silly diet and would never do it, but who am I to mess with her mojo? Its not an unhealthy diet, its balanced, if boring and bland. When we eat together, we go somewhere where she will have choices that fit, and next time she comes over, I'll accomodate her dietary desires the best I'm able. She brings backup food, just in case.

I'm so sorry that witch was so nasty with you. No one deserves that kind of crap.

[Mabelline]

Sometimes some people cannot discern between their i.q. and their shoe size. If she's like my own daemon, she probably also conveniently forgot she even said it...

Wait a minute...was she a nurse from Montana??

[creepygirl]

And, I knew there was a reason that I like Jeffrey Steingarten so much. He's right on the money - what if it take you 100 times to like something and you give up after only 99 tries?

I think it's up to the individual to decide whether it's worth eating something that doesn't taste good to him/her 99 times on the chance that the 100th time will be the one that works. Especially since life is short, and there may be many, many other good things to eat.

For example, I don't care for foie gras. I don't like the flavor and I find the richness cloying. I've had it 6 times or so, with different preparation methods, and I haven't come close to liking it. I am not going to order it 94 more times just to see if someone manages to make it suit my palate. What's the point when there are numerous choices of foods (many of which are less expensive and less fattening than foie gras) that I have not found uniformly unpleasant 6 times in a row?

I've been pleasantly surprised on some occasions by excellent preparations of foods that I tend to dislike, so I try to keep an open mind (especially when the food preparer is one who has earned my trust), but I see no virtue in repeatedly butting my head up against some of my food dislikes.

If I end up missing out on some great food by my cost benefit analysis, well, that's my problem, not the cook's/chef's.

[Smithy]

Oh goody, a place I can vent about something that's peeved me for far longer than it should have.

A dear friend who lives too far away to see regularly called one day, passing through town. She wanted to know whether she could stop by, invite herself to dinner, spend the night. "Sure!" I said, "we're already cooking, and there's plenty of food, and you're always welcome!" When she arrived we exchanged hugs and greetings, and shortly thereafter went upstairs to finish cooking. "What's for dinner?" she inquired. "Pork roast, potatoes, gravy, veggies!" I responded. It's one of our favorite crock pot meals. Her response? "Sounds great! and I'm not a vegetarian, thank you for asking."

She really is a dear friend, so I let it go...but really, to invite oneself to a meal, just before dinner, and then imply that the host should have given more thought to the impromptu guest's preferences, well...

[ellencho]

Oh goody, a place I can vent about something that's peeved me for far longer than it should have.

A dear friend who lives too far away to see regularly called one day, passing through town. She wanted to know whether she could stop by, invite herself to dinner, spend the night. "Sure!" I said, "we're already cooking, and there's plenty of food, and you're always welcome!" When she arrived we exchanged hugs and greetings, and shortly thereafter went upstairs to finish cooking. "What's for dinner?" she inquired. "Pork roast, potatoes, gravy, veggies!" I responded. It's one of our favorite crock pot meals. Her response? "Sounds great! and I'm not a vegetarian, thank you for asking."

She really is a dear friend, so I let it go...but really, to invite oneself to a meal, just before dinner, and then imply that the host should have given more thought to the impromptu guest's preferences, well...

Ha! If I ever had the audacity to invite myself to dinner at the last minute to someone's house and be served what you cooked, I'd think that you were psychic and actually knew I'd be calling.