Thai Birdseye Chilies

[markk]

I acquired some Thai Birdseye Chilies. Does anybody know what they are?

I was buying the Szechuan Peppercorns (also shown) and asked for other very hot things (and was told that the Szechuan peppercorns were NOT hot, they are just incredibly aromatic and they numb the tongue) but that the Birdseye chilies were the hottest pepper they carry, so I ordered them.

Does anybody know what they are and how they're used? I'm wondering (hoping against hope) that they're the little pepper that Grand Sichuan International in NY uses.

[jhlurie]

They are very very very very (very) hot. Probably hotter than anything Grand Sichuan uses.

[Chad]

Interesting, they look a lot like the SuperChiles I grew last year (a variant on what I've always heard called Thai Bird Peppers), but apparently yours are a little different. Those are Prik ki nu, a vital ingredient in Thai cooking, I believe. You'll have to let us know how they work out.

Take care,

Chad

[reesek]

mark,

i love thai bird chilis - imo, though they're hot, it's their flavor that's truly exceptional.

my recommendation would be to rehydrate them before use in boiling water until they're soft. wear gloves, i never do and alway regret it - especially if you're going to be checking the texture with your hands.

my favorite use of these chilis, (always fresh - but the same principles would apply) is to bash them in a mortar & pestle, and add pepper, garlic, sugar, fish sauce, rice vinegar and a bit of oil. use as a dressing on shredded green papaya or as a marinade for fish or chicken. we also like to make a spiced vinegar - for this you could heat rice wine vinegar and reconsitute the peppers in the hot vinegar. develops flavor over several days. i drip the vinegar on rice and fish.

[Toliver]

I acquired some Thai Birdseye Chilies.  Does anybody know what they are?

I was buying the Szechuan Peppercorns (also shown) and asked for other very hot things (and was told that the Szechuan peppercorns were NOT hot, they are just incredibly aromatic and they numb the tongue) but that the Birdseye chilies were the hottest pepper they carry, so I ordered them.

Does anybody know what they are and how they're used?  I'm wondering (hoping against hope) that they're the little pepper that Grand Sichuan International in NY uses.

Szechuan peppercorns?? What country are you in?

I believe Szechuan peppercorns are still illegal to sell/import in the United States. I just Googled the company and they're in New Jersey so now it makes me wonder if they are really Szechuan peppercorns given the import ban.

I would love to have a bag of those peppercorns if they're the real McCoy! Color me green with envy.

[jackal10]

I grow those chillis, and the larger version "Thai Dragon".

They are atomic. I believe they are the second hottest chili known to man. They make Habernero and Scotch Bonnet seem mild. Do not try eating them straight, at risk of severe injury.

Handle with extreme caution (gloves, eye mask etc). I find half a chilli in a gallon pot too much.

[Chad]

Hmm, I may have to plant some of those. Last year I grew Habaneros (orange), Carolina Cayennes and SuperChiles, which are a Thai Bird Pepper/pequin hybrid. The SuperChiles were amazingly prolific, but not as hot as I would have liked -- hotter than a Serrano but not anywhere near Scotch Bonnet/Habanero territory. They were wonderful in my salsas, homemade hot sauce and spicy pickled carrots (the best thing I did with my chiles last year).

This year I'm going to try my hand at Red Savinas, more cayennes, perhaps some more SuperChiles and Tabasco peppers. Oh, and Brandywine tomatoes. I might have to toss Thai Dragons into the mix. Looks like I can get them at ChilePlants.com.

Chad

[markk]

What country are you in?

I believe Szechuan peppercorns are still illegal to sell/import in the United States. I just Googled the company and they're in New Jersey so now it makes me wonder if they are really Szechuan peppercorns given the import ban. I splurged the $5.95 for the bag, and although I haven't cooked with them yet, they smell like the real thing - through the bag and the box and all, which somebody mentioned previously on this thread (which was how I came to know this company).

I'm in New Jersey (which they claim is technically part of the U.S. still), and that was my original question: how can they have them if they're illegal? The guy at the place said that they're imported from China.

[markk]

They are very very very very (very) hot. Probably hotter than anything Grand Sichuan uses.

I was hoping to take them to my local Chinese restaurant and ask them to add them to my food. Any thought on how many (or few) they should use in a dish?

[markk]

mark,

i love thai bird chilis - imo, though they're hot, it's their flavor that's truly exceptional.

my recommendation would be to rehydrate them before use in boiling water until they're soft. wear gloves, i never do and alway regret it - especially if you're going to be checking the texture with your hands.

my favorite use of these chilis, (always fresh - but the same principles would apply) is to bash them in a mortar & pestle, and add pepper, garlic, sugar, fish sauce, rice vinegar and a bit of oil. use as a dressing on shredded green papaya or as a marinade for fish or chicken. we also like to make a spiced vinegar - for this you could heat rice wine vinegar and reconsitute the peppers in the hot vinegar. develops flavor over several days. i drip the vinegar on rice and fish.

Should I not cook with them, then? I was hoping to take them to my local Chinese restaurant and ask them to add them to my food. Any thought on how many (or few) they should use in a dish?

[Jason Perlow]

This year I'm going to try my hand at Red Savinas

I can assure you, you don't want to do this. I successfully grew some of these a few summers ago, and well, lets just say, they aren't really usable in food.

I ended up putting mine in the food drier and grinding it into chile powder... and mixing it with WEAKER chiles. Stuff is way, way, way too hot.

[AzRaeL]

they're also called Chilli Padi

my grandfather used to mince it into a paste and add lime juice.

[jhlurie]

What country are you in?

I believe Szechuan peppercorns are still illegal to sell/import in the United States.  I just Googled the company and they're in New Jersey so now it makes me wonder if they are really Szechuan peppercorns given the import ban.  I splurged the $5.95 for the bag, and although I haven't cooked with them yet, they smell like the real thing - through the bag and the box and all, which somebody mentioned previously on this thread (which was how I came to know this company).

I'm in New Jersey (which they claim is technically part of the U.S. still), and that was my original question: how can they have them if they're illegal? The guy at the place said that they're imported from China.

The regulations were apparently revised recently. There's more info in our famous Sichuan Peppercorn topic.

Thai Bird Peppers have no law against them... but if you've ever gotten a bit of one in your eye you might consider the wisdom of supporting such a law.

[andiesenji]

This year I'm going to try my hand at Red Savinas

I can assure you, you don't want to do this. I successfully grew some of these a few summers ago, and well, lets just say, they aren't really usable in food.

I ended up putting mine in the food drier and grinding it into chile powder... and mixing it with WEAKER chiles. Stuff is way, way, way too hot.

There are a lot of things to do with habaneros or red savinas or any of the super hot peppers.

I grow the tiny chile tepin and chile pequin in addition to habaneros, Scotch bonnets and rocotos.

The latter are very hot but have a wonderful apple flavor.

If you ever want answers about chiles, post a question on the Chile-Heads list and you will get plenty of answers. There are chile growers, commercial vendors and afficianados from all over the world and all are enthusiastic.

http://www.exit109.com/~mstevens/chileheads.html

Habanero brownies, chipotle brownies, have been recent topics.

I have been a member for several years. I have attended several "Hot-Lucks" where everyone brings something made with chiles.

I have candied chile pequin (the original Red-Hots) and mixed them into a dense moist chocolate cake. Not for wimps, but very popular with the gang at the hotluck.

Served with milk, which acts as an antidote to the capsaicin - the casein in the milk locks onto the capsaicin and carries it away.

[markk]

The regulations were apparently revised recently.

Thai Bird Peppers have no law against them... but if you've ever gotten a bit of one in your eye you might consider the wisdom of supporting such a law.

Thanks for the info on the change in legal status - that explains it!

As far as the Birdseye Chiles, I don't mean to be a wise-guy here, but I had no intention of getting one in my eye. I like food really hot (I bring serrano and scotch bonnets to my Chinese restaurant to add to my food and still it's not quite hot enough, or as hot as at Grand Sichuan International), and I bought the birdseye peppers with the thought of adding them to my food.

If you have any firsthand knowledge of them, I'd love to know what foods you've had them in, and if you're saying that they're too hot to eat (the man at the place that sells them said they were too hot for anybody there to eat), I'd appreciate knowing why you say this.

Thank you for whatever detail you can give.

[jhlurie]

Too hot to eat? No. Only too hot to eat by themselves. In a vat of chili or a big pot of curry, sure... you can enjoy them.

Red Savinas are a bit harder to use. I know Jason had a hell of a time with them.

[Shiewie]

Fresh chilli padi (bird's eye chillies) with a dash of soy sauce is one of the most common condiments served with meals in Malaysia. One of my friends has to have chilli padi at almost every meal ... tabasco is required for non-chilli padi accompanied meals ... she even adds tabasco to salads (and carries a bottle in her handbag! )

[maukitten]

My parents plant chillies too! I try and bring some back from wherever I go on my travels!

Dried chilli padi - I think those would be good if you grind them coursely and add them to spaghetti aglio olio, or if you add them together with lemongrass to a spaghetti marinara for a Thai twist.

If you get "kicap manis" which is a dark sweet soya sauce from Indonesia ("A1" being one of the more common brands), add some chilli padi to the soya sauce and eat with fried rice. yum yum.

:-)

Maukitten

[Chad]

This year I'm going to try my hand at Red Savinas

I can assure you, you don't want to do this. I successfully grew some of these a few summers ago, and well, lets just say, they aren't really usable in food.

I ended up putting mine in the food drier and grinding it into chile powder... and mixing it with WEAKER chiles. Stuff is way, way, way too hot.

Jason, thanks for the heads up. I'm not one of those "I've eaten chiles so hot that I pissed blood for a week and went blind in my left eye" macho chest beating types. It's just that I was very disappointed in my orange Habaneros last year. Kansas may not be offer the right growing conditions. Mine were pretty weak. Weak enough that I could pop half a chile in my mouth and chew it up -- NOT something you're supposed to be able to do with any Habanero, though the fruity flavor was quite nice. I was hoping that by going with the Red Savina I might get close to what a Habanero is supposed to be.

And =Mark='s Habanero ice cream is calling to me.

Chad

[JustKay]

It is very hot - even I can't eat it by themselves. They're hotter than Serranos. Habaneros are mild compared to bird chilies.

You can do what Shiewie suggested, chop it up and soak them in light soya sauce and use a condiment. Add a little vinegar too, if you like.

Or you can pickle them - this will slightly tone down the heat. Then use them as an a condiment - especially good with fried noodles, fried rice or soup dishes like noodles soup.

Another common usage here in Malay cooking is to make Sambal Belacan. I don't know if you can buy belacan or if you eat them. In my home though, I add some fresh red chilies to my sambal belacan to tone the heat down a bit.

Grinding them up and adding a little soya sauce is how the sambal for Soto Ayam is made.

However, some people like my grandma could eat these bird chilies like Shiewie's friend does.

It is also used a lot in Thai dishes. Usually the chilies are just bruised and thrown in TomYam and other fried dishes.

There are several Malay meat dishes that uses them like Rendang - a very hot and spicy meat dish that also uses coconut milk, Masak Lemak Chili Padi - a coconut based dish, not spicy but hot ....

Bird chilies are good chilies to use when making freshwater fish dish since sometimes freshwater fish can have a strong muddy-fishy taste.

Another sambal that often accompanies grilled fish is called Sambal Air Asam . A mixture of tamarind juice, a little belacan paste and a handful of bird chiles are blended and then raw big onion slices added to it.

You could also infuse oil with it. I sent some to a friend in California and she made chili oil with some of them.

Mostly we use fresh ones, and I realize you have dried ones. Perhaps, you could adapt and soak them in hot water.

But dried chilies are always good for Sambal Tumis a thick chili paste dish which can contain boiled eggs, anchovies, squids or prawns although not all at the same time, Masak Asam Pedas a lot of tamarind juice makes a thinner version of the sambal tumis and this also uses Bunga Kantan Torch Ginger Flower Bloom which lends it's unique fragrance and flavor to the dish and also Masak Gulai which is a variation of the aforementioned dish but uses polygonum as the herb and also slightly thicker, but less so than Sambal Tumis.

This plant is also easy to grow and quite hardy. A small plant will yield hundreds of chili padi. You can try growing them from the seeds of the dried chilies you have. germinate them on wet cotton and transfer it to a small container barely covering the seed and then later transfer the young plant into a medium sized pot.

Maybe you already know this but it helps that after eating a hot dish, if you chew some white bread or drink milk (slowly so that it coats your mouth).

Edited May 19, 2004 by kew (log)

[Chad]

I grow the tiny chile tepin and chile pequin in addition to habaneros, Scotch bonnets and rocotos.

The latter are very hot but have a wonderful apple flavor.

Now that's just cool. My SuperChiles are supposedly a hybrid of Thai Bird Chiles and pequins, though they were not as hot as I expected. I'll have to look into the rocotos. I'm always looking for serious heat with serious flavor. Heat alone is boring and pointless.

That's one reason I was so disappointed in my Habaneros last year. They had a nice fruity flavor, but not the heat that I'd expected. I really wanted to make a Habanero/mango ice cream.

This is probably deserving of another thread, but have any of y'all tried the Toad Sweat line of dessert hot sauces? I got a gift pack for Christmas and I've been itching to try them.

Chad

[JustKay]

Should I not cook with them, then?  I was hoping to take them to my local Chinese restaurant and ask them to add them to my food.  Any thought on how many (or few) they should use in a dish?

Yes, you can cook with them.

Depending on what the dishes you want them to cook.

If it's just fried rice or fried noodles, maybe just add 4 or 5. I suggest they chop it up some and add when sauteing the spices/onions.

If they're using chili paste, then to grind them up (after soaking in hot water) with the chilis they use or replace with with this.

If you can carefully grind them up, you can put the powder in a shaker and use it like you would paprika although it would be HOT. Good on pizzas and spaghettis. But be careful of the pwder though as these are really hot chilis. You can also take out the seeds to lessen the heat.

edited to add : there are less potent variety of bird chilis and these are usually slightly bigger (more than 1 inch long)

Edited May 19, 2004 by kew (log)

[markk]

Yes, you can cook with them.

Depending on what the dishes you want them to cook.

Thank you for this post!

This might be a good time for me to re-state my original idea in its entirety for the group.

I've become quite intrigued and enchanted by the food at Grand Sichuan International (on 9th Ave. in New York) - well, aren't we all - and at the same time, really fed up with what passes as Chinese food where I live in New Jersey. I'm not just fond of Szechuan food either - I love Cantonese food, and a meal of steamed fish, crabs, and a green vegetable is heaven to me, but we don't get remotely edible Cantonese food either where I live. But there are many local places whose Szechuan/Hunan dishes, while ridiculously sweet and goppy, are at least better than their horrible attempts at Cantonese, as long as you add heat to them. So I usually take fresh serranos and Scotch Bonnets to them and choose dishes whose flavors these chilies will complement.

THEN I learned that the Sichuan peppercorns could be purchased on-line. And when I spoke to the guy at CMC and he described the Birdseye Chili, I thought that it might be the other "secret" pepper that Grand Sichuan uses.

So now I have both the Sichuan peppercorns, and the Birdseye chilies to take to my local restaurant. If anybody out there has any suggestions of what dishes they could add these to and in what quantity, that'd be great to hear.

I've brought them the Grand Sichuan menu and asked if they'd call and inquire, but so far they're hesitant. Thanks to everyone who's helping on this!

[JustKay]

markk, I am no expert but the bird chili, unlike Szechuan peppers, has no particularly distinct taste. It is used primarily for it's potency.

Szechuan peppers, on the other hand has quite a distinct flavor and fragrance, which is what makes Szechuan dishes special. Therefore, IMO, if you ordered a Szechuan dish, it must be made with Szechuan peppers. If it's not hot enough, perhaps you could request them to double the amount of the Szechuan pepper. If you add Szechuan peppers to other Chinese dishes, you will be altering it's taste. If you ordered a Szechuan dish and they use some other pepper, then they are cheating and that makes it not an authentic Szechuan dish

And I don't find Szechuan peppers very hot - just mildly hot. Chinese dishes are not as hot as Thai or Malay dishes. I am of course, speaking as one with a 'Malay' palate.

In Malaysia, most Chinese restaurants would also include a few Szechuan dishes in the menu. However, they would not taste as good as the ones offered at Szechuan Restaurants.

Therefore, if you are seeking to amplify the heat factor of other Chinese dishes, go ahead with the bird chillies, although bird chillies are usually used fresh. It is easier to just add fresh peppers to a dish than to work with dried peppers.

So, as suggested, if the dish uses chili paste, then soak your dried chilis and grind to a paste and use this in addition to (mixed in) the chili paste they use. If they use chopped chilis in the dish, you might get away with just adding chopped dried peppers during the end of the sauteing period (as dried peppers can burn fast). I would say 1T of bird eye chili paste is good for one serving portion, and about 4 or more for dried peppers.

You could also cook up the paste of dried chilis and add them to any dish you wish to make hotter. There are several places here which do that. I am not so sure of the ingredients but if you want to try make this, I could possibly find out.

I hope this helps a little. I know how frustrating it can be. When I was living in Canada, I had to tell them to make the 'hot' dishes really hot but they are still not hot enough for me.

[andiesenji]

My SuperChiles are supposedly a hybrid of Thai Bird Chiles and pequins, though they were not as hot as I expected. I'll have to look into the rocotos. I'm always looking for serious heat with serious flavor. Heat alone is boring and pointless.

That's one reason I was so disappointed in my Habaneros last year. They had a nice fruity flavor, but not the heat that I'd expected. I really wanted to make a Habanero/mango ice cream.

Chad,

For more detailed information about which chiles are from a particular area, and their attributes, you can check at Susan Byers' (AKA The Chile Woman) site. http://www.thechilewoman.com/searchchiles.html by geographical area.

Or http://www.thechilewoman.com/chilesbyalph.html by alphabetical name.

This list also indicates the ones that are suitable for containers. Also those that are super hot.

I have ordered the African Piri Piri for the first time this year among some other old favorites.

If you want to grow your own, she has an extensive selection of plants, all organically grown.

I have never been disappointed, all of my orders arrived in good condition, no plant loss.

I make various sambals - these require very hot chiles and often these are simply not available in stores. Most of these plants are relatively pest-free and just a few plants can provide you with a year's supply. Quite a few can be maintained over the winter indoors in containers.