A Good, Cheap Knife

[Gul_Dekar]

I'm a bit clueless when it comes to buying knives, but just wanted to get a decent one for a relatively low price...btw 30-40 dollars. I'm just a student, so can't really afford the higher end knives on the market (although I wish I could).

So was wondering if you guys have any tips for a knife newbie, on what to buy and what to look for in a knife in general if you're not planning to spend too much. Like would a Henckels International Classic be good or something?

Thanks!

[Sleepy_Dragon]

The cheaper yet good knife brands of choice in my class seems to be either Forschner (stamped, made by the swiss army knife folks) or Ludwig Schiff (forged). I like them both, though the Ludwig Schiff knives have a slightly thicker blade and thus are heavier. Most of us got our kits at Southwest Cutlery (edit: though upon browsing the site, we got ours at student pricing, so it looks like it would be more expensive for anyone else).

Never liked Henckels anything, every type I've used always came across as a product with too many corners cut for the price asked.

Beyond that... you'll generally have a choice between 8" or 10" chef's knife. The size you pick depends on how big a person you are. There's a knife sharpening tutorial under the eCGI section worth checking out too, it goes into detail about knives themselves as well as how to sharpen them.

Of course, for cheapest of all, you could go with a carbon steel Chinese cleaver! Chops, mashes, scrapes and scoops. Dulls faster so you'd need a stone, though what my mother used to do is use the unvarnished bottoms of rice bowls to sharpen hers, hehe.

Pat

Edited May 18, 2004 by Sleepy_Dragon (log)

[blueapron]

Man I know it is hard but just try to wait until you can get 20 or 30 bucks more. I am sure you wanted a better answer, but I cant encourage you to make a $40 mistake. These knives are fair at best and since they are made with lower quality steel they dont hold a sharp edge very long which means alot of time on the sharpening stone.

Stamped knives are cut or "stamped" out of a flat peice of steel and are rather flimsy because the blades usually are not part of the handle -avoid at all costs!!

Forged on the other hand is layers of steel that is heated and formed into a blade and the handle is then molded over the end of the blade or tang giving it better strength ,weight and balance.

Anyway dont blow your 40.You will just be that much further from what you really need. If you are a culinary student who is spending thousands and thosands on classes INVEST in your future- a quality knive will last forever if treat it right.

Have you looked at Global knives?

I own a couple along with my wusthofs and really really like them. They come razor sharp from the factory and if you use a steel each time you use it (as you should with any knive ) they stay sharp twice as long.

The global G-2 20cm cooks knive is a good size for beginners and yoy can get it for less than $70 on line at amazon or metrokitchen.com(free shipping!)

Edited May 18, 2004 by blueapron (log)

[blueapron]

Almost forgot to tell you to check out the cooks illustraded website. They have a cool section were all they do is test things knives,peelers, salad spinners...

They tested all the knives that we have mentioned here and they break it down in laymans terms, I think the wustof won followed by henkels

[Moopheus]

If you search the archives here by brand name, you'll probably find endless discussions of any type of knife.

If you're looking for something inexpensive but serviceable, look and see if there's any restaurant supply stores in your area. I picked up some Dexter-Russell knives for about $20 apiece, and use them every day, and they're not hard to maintain.

[ellencho]

Cook's Illustrated/America's Test Kitchen recommended a 30 dollar Forschner Victornox 8-inch Chef's knife. I own one of those myself, but it's so nice I haven't had the heart to take it out of the package, I'm saving it for a special occasion (yes, I am that weird and anal).

Amazon has it for 29.99.

[Chad]

In that price range you can still get a pretty decent knife. Cook's Illustrated did a shootout of the most common chef's knife brands in the November/December 2002 issue. The top rated knife was the $31 Forschner (Victorinox) Fibrox, Model 40520. It is lightweight, maneuverable and has a comfortable, grippy handle. Surpise, huh? I personally prefer a heavier knife, but this just goes to show that you don't have to spend a ton of money for a quality knife. The second rated was the Wusthof Grand Prix at $82.50. The Henckels Four-Star, one of the most common knives available, was right in the middle of the pack.

For those who are familiar with my eGCI course on Knife Maintenance & Sharpening, this might be a little surprising. Yes, I'm a knife nut. Yes, I have a couple of custom chef knives. And, yes, I'm recommending the Forschner. It's a decent knife and a good starting point.

Chad

[PopsicleToze]

Heard (but have not confirmed it myself) that Wusthof is discontinuing the Grand Prix line. I have seen with my own eyes a 8" Wusthof chef's knife on sale at TJ Maxx for about $30, and a Wusthof paring knive for only $7. Some say Tuesday Morning has a huge selection of Wusthof for really cheap prices.

Look around and you will be able to find a good forged knife in your price range.

Good luck on your quest and your career.

Rhonda

Edited May 18, 2004 by Rhonda Graham (log)

[Toliver]

I received some Forschners as a gift last Christmas and they rock. I use a steel to keep the edge honed and haven't had to sharpen them yet.

[Mayhaw Man]

I received some Forschners as a gift last Christmas and they rock. I use a steel to keep the edge honed and haven't had to sharpen them yet.

What kind of steel are you using (in terms of texture of the surface). I need a new one and am trying to decide what to get.

[jayt90]

If you are considering mail order or on line ordering, you can't go wrong with Lee Valley Tools, Kanata,Ontario. In this price range you can get a small Japanese utility knife, or larger kitchen knives from Sabattier or Grohmann (Nova Scotia).

Or else three Chinese cleavers.

The integrity of this firm is well known, and they are mentioned several times in the 'Knife Sharpening Tutorial'.

[PoorLawyer]

try ebay. I just got a shun 8" chef's knife and paring knife for a pretty good price. It was more than you wanted to spend but there are tons on there to choose from and they are all brand new from kitchen suppliers

[Richard Kilgore]

Today I saw a 10 inch Forschner Victornox Chef's knife in a restaurant supply house (ACE) for $31.

[PopsicleToze]

Edited May 19, 2004 by Rhonda Graham (log)

[blueapron]

Chad,

Do you own the forschner you are recommending? Or are you recom. because it won some contest.

If you are a serious knive fan I dought you would waste your own cash on knive of this quality.

Not trying to be rude just really wondering.

Personally I cant recom. something that I dont/would not own myself.

[Samhill]

I use an old wusthof STAMPED santoku, nice knife. There is nothing about a knife being STAMPED that makes a knife necessarily inferior. I'm sure the forschner will be fine if you decide to buy one..

[blueapron]

Sam check the link above to wusthof and read the history part.

They dont make stamped knives!

[Samhill]

lol.

Well they used to 7 years ago when I bought mine , it's an 'Avantgarde' line, X50 Cr Mo V15 steel, same steel as the Classics.

Paz.

[blueapron]

Go figure? Every thing on thier website says forged since 1800's. I just cant find a word about them making stamped. Hell I wasnt even cooking seven years ago so I ll take your word for it.

[Chad]

Chad,

Do you own the forschner you are recommending? Or are you recom. because it won some contest.

If you are a serious knive fan I dought you would waste your own cash on knive of this quality.

Not trying to be rude just really wondering.

Personally I cant recom. something that I dont/would not own myself.

I do not own the Forschner/Victorinox. I have, however, used one. I would not recommend it if I hadn't. Yes, I'm a serious knife nut and collector. I love my custom knives. (click link for an article about my twisted passion ) I enjoy sharpening them, modifying them . . . hell, I love just handling them. However, high end knives, custom or Williams-Sonoma retail, would not be the best idea for Gul_Dekar, in my opinion. My recommendation is based on pragmatism rather than personal preference.

One: he's a student and doesn't have a lot of cash on hand, though the Wusthof sale changes the equation substantially. If he can get a Grand Prix for this price, he should go for it;

Two: the Fibrox is a damn fine knife for the price. I've used it. I liked it. A bit too light for my tastes, but fast and maneuverable and easy to handle;

Three: don't believe that Henckels and Wusthofs are really forged. Certainly not in the traditional sense. It's bullshit. Everyone has an image of an artisan blacksmith standing over an anvil when the truth is a multi-ton drop forge that, yes, stamps the knife blanks out. The difference is the thickness of the metal and the pressure of the stamping mechanism. They are better than lightweight stamped knives, granted, but they are not forged in the same way that custom carbon steel knives are forged. Doesn't happen with stainless steel;

Four: simply put, maintenance. If this is his first knife, he's probably not going to spend the time to steel it regularly, sharpen it the way it should be sharpened or do much of anything other than throw it into a drawer when he's finished. At least I didn't when I was a student. The Fibrox has great out-of-box sharpness that will last quite a while even under heavy use.

So, do I own one? No, I don't. Would I buy one for my daughter when she goes off to college? Hell, yes. I think its a great starter knife.

Chad

[blueapron]

Point(s) takin. So the germans have been misleading us along! Worse yet schools, tv and other media are unknowningly teaching us this.Bastards.J/K.

Hey I am not too proud to admit when I am wrong and that is why I love this site you learn something new everyday here!

So I ll meet ya half way- If all you have is $30 get the forsh,but if you got any more get something else.

You dont think it would lose its edge quicker because it is a softer steel?

What about the Globals they are so thin compared to most germans are they cutting corners too?

[agnolottigirl]

If you don't need a full-size chef's knife, and you're spending all your money on just one knife, I'd recommend the MAC utility knife. It is AWESOME, as are their other knives. . . and relative to other good stuff, not too expensive. It's not great if you have to do a ton of chopping, or for cleaver-type work, but it works for practically everything else.

Alternatively, if you aren't swayed so much by brand names and don't care what it looks like (these generally have white or brown plastic or rubberized handles), you can do just fine if you go to a restaurant supply store and buy what most restaurant cooks work with--Mauviel or Dexter-Russell type knives. Most of these are perfectly servicable--not intended as "lifetime" knives--but if you're only able to spend $40, you're basically priced out of that category anyway.

[Gul_Dekar]

Wow thanks for all the responses. Will definitely have a look at what you guys recommended. I'm not a culinary school student, just a college student (tho wish I could one day go to one to learn). Again, thanks guys!

[waldorf]

You might wish to consider Sanelli... An Italian company, their Premana Professional Line has a wide variety of knives... I especially like their Curved boning knife.. and Japanese knife

The handles fit well and are very comfortable... the blades keep a sharp edge

I believe that this link will work www.sagetra.com

[Chad]

Point(s) takin. So the germans have been misleading us along! Worse yet schools, tv and other media are unknowningly teaching us this.Bastards.J/K.

Yup, 'fraid so. Hot drop forged knives do have a stronger and more regular carbide lattice than cold stamped or laser cut knives, but the image of a smith hammering out knives on an anvil is one of the best marketing smokescreens in the industry. As is the "ooh, it's forged so it must be good" marketing drivel. Frankly, it's a matter of economics. Stainless steel is very difficult to forge in the traditional manner. Carbon steel can be hand forged or air-hammer forged, but stainless just can't, not for any price that the buying public is going to pay. See the Knife Maintenance & Sharpening Tutorial in the eGullet Culinary Institute for more information than you'll ever need about knife steel, construction, et al.

So I ll meet ya half way- If all you have is $30 get the forsh,but if you got any more get something else.

Works for me! I'm a firm believer in buying the absolute best you can afford, even if you have to stretch a little.

You dont think it would lose its edge quicker because it is a softer steel?

Tough call. I haven't seen the Rc numbers on the Forschner, but I'd guess it's in the low 50s. Henckels & Wusthofs are somewhere between 52-56Rc, so there will be some difference, but it won't be dramatic.

By the way, Gul_Dekar, KnifeCenter has the 10" Forschner Fibrox for about $26. Yep, 10" is a big sucker, but once you get over the intimidation factor you'll find it hard to use anything smaller. As a matter o' fact, eGullet's Basic Knife Skills class, taught by Marsha Lynch, is about the best intro to knife work around. Check it out.

What about the Globals they are so thin compared to most germans are they cutting corners too?

Nope, Globals are something special, indeed. They have a high vanadium content (like some of the MAC lines mentioned previously), that makes them harder than hell and allows them to take an amazing edge. The Globals are up somewhere around 58-62 on the Rockwell C scale. They're a bitch to sharpen, but they'll hold a screaming edge for a very, very long time. MACs and Globals are always a good choice. And unlike some of the customs I've owned, they don't require the love, upkeep and attention of a purebred Chihuahua.

I love talking about knives. Thanks, folks!

Chad