Daring Desserts...An article by Andrea Strong

[tan319]

I first saw avocado in a dessert in Andrew Maclauchlans 'Tropical Desserts' book. That was published in '97.

To comment on a couple of things here,

I agree that the tone (and the typos) were a bit strange in AS's article, and it surprised me.

But, I don't remember the article stating that any of the chefs were being noted as the best either.

By underestimating the customer I simply mean that a lot of people aren't going to have a heart attack if they get presented with something different.

There are bad examples of all kinds of food everywhere in restaurants.

I can't figure out why almost everytime something outside the realm of typical, traditional,albeit great dessert offerings get's mentioned, you, Wendy, think someone has something to hide?

Why is doing something different indicate boredom with the tried and true?

I don't understand why people can't have both without being suspected of not having the chops.

All the Avant Garde'ist's if you want to call them that, love simple, homeish food, that's what most of them talk about in articles,etc.

But that's not necessarily what they want to cook everyday for their clientele.

Going back awhile here, was chefette desecrating apple pie with cheese when she did her dessert item for the IMHS?

She could surely have just done her absolute all time best version of a great apple pie right?

I've got a part time gig right now in a French bakery operation ( I still have my other gig too) and I'm jazzed to be a part of that kind of traditional pastry prep and execution and what's more, I'm sure it will give me food for thought, it will influence what I will be doing in my own desserts in the future.

But, when you work in a restaurant enviornment, you are (hopefully) being constantly exposed to chefs ideas, you'[re sharing ideas about food that you've read about, eaten, etc. and that is going to spill over into what you do, more then likely.

[CompassRose]

"Desecrating apple pie with cheese?" That's hardly new... rather quaintly old-fashioned, I'd say. My father's been laying slices of cheese on his hot apple pie wedges as long as I've known him.

Edited May 13, 2004 by CompassRose (log)

[tan319]

"Desecrating apple pie with cheese?" That's hardly new... rather quaintly old-fashioned, I'd say. My father's been laying slices of cheese on his hot apple pie wedges as long as I've known him.

Sorry to mislead you,

What I was referring to was a dessert chefette did for an event where I believe she featured her apple pie alamode, that is, a deconstructed one, and I would file it under a "daring dessert", mainly because chefette totally took it apart and put it back together again.

It's not what I would call traditional besides the flavors, and they've been tweaked a bit too.

My point was, if you didn't know the person, or whatever, would you think this recipe would indicate someone was hiding behind a radicalization of a traditional dessert because they couldn't make the typical one?

If you held tradition as an absolute virtue, would you say this was a desecration of the dessert that influenced it?

Here's her recipe from a previous eG thread...

Cheese Custard

1 pint heavy cream

Pinch salt

6 large egg yolks

2.5 oz cheddar cheese (grated)

2 oz cream cheese (soft)

- Boil cream with salt and temper yolks then stir over heat 8 seconds

- Remove from heat, strain, and pour over the cheeses

- Stir to melt or use an immersion blender to ensure smooth custard

- Portion into glasses and chill several hours to set

Lemon Vanilla Marmalade

2 large lemons

240g sugar

500g water

1 vanilla bean

- Using a peeler, peel strips of lemon zest

- Blanch the zest in boiling water 3 times

- Combine sugar and 500g water and bring to a boil add zest and vanilla bean (scraped) and simmer for an hour

- Cover and allow the zest to age several days

- Finely dice the zest and remove the vanilla bean pod

Cinnamon Foam

5-7 sticks cinnamon

150g sugar

30g corn syrup

400g water

2 sheets gelatin

75 g heavy cream

- Place the sugar in a medium saucepan with the corn syrup and 50g of the water. DO NOT stir it

- Cover pan until the sugar has melted and mixture is boiling. Uncover and continue cooking until sugar is light amber in color

- Toss in the cinnamon sticks and continue cooking for another minute or two then add the remaining water

- Return to boil, cover and let steep 8 hours then strain to remove cinnamon sticks

- Measure out 325g of the cinnamon jus

- Bloom the gelatin in cold water while warming the cream and melt the gelatin in the warm cream before stirring into the cinnamon jus

- Pour into Isi profi whipper with 2 charges and chill 2 hours before using

Breton Short crust

4 large egg yolks

160g sugar

160g salted butter

225g AP Flour

15g Baking Powder

- Soften butter in mixing bowl using paddle

- Add, sugar and then yolks until well combined

- Combine flour and baking powder and stir into the butter/egg/sugar mixture using the paddle

- Roll out on half sheet tray between parchment

- Chill several hours and bake 15 minutes at 375 until golden

- Allow to cool and cut unto cubes

Apple Compote

4 Granny Smith apples (peeled, cored, chopped)

Pinch salt

30g Butter

50-60g Light brown sugar

- Melt butter in hot sauté pan and then toss in apples and salt (do this in more than one batch if necessary)

- Sauté several minutes tossing or stirring until apples are tender then sprinkle and toss with brown sugar

Assembly

· Top the set custard with a portion of the Breton short crust cubes

· Carefully spoon approximately 1 teaspoon of the marmalade into each glass so that it is divided into two or three areas

· Scoop a portion of the warm apple compote into each glass

· Just before serving top each portion with a cloud of Cinnamon Foam

* The marmalade can be done several days in advance and is better if it ages. It will keep well if covered and refrigerated for several weeks

* The cinnamon jus can also be done in advance and held in the refrigerator several days before adding the cream and gelatin. An alternative to the cinnamon foam is to reduce the water to 250g and use it as a sauce or flavoring for whipped cream

* The short crust can be made in advance and kept wrapped several days or frozen

* The apples may be made in advance and held in the refrigerator and re-warmed prior to serving

[CompassRose]

I'd hardly think that someone who could pull that off couldn't make a real apple pie, no.

That sounds cool. Except the cinnamon foam. I'm sorry, foam still isn't appetising to me! Although when I picture it in my head, I keep seeing geometric shards of the Breton shortbread crust sticking out of the glass, even though the directions say "cubes".

Is there a picture? I like pictures. Specially of desserts.

[tan319]

I'd hardly think that someone who could pull that off couldn't make a real apple pie, no.

That sounds cool. Except the cinnamon foam. I'm sorry, foam still isn't appetising to me!  Although when I picture it in my head, I keep seeing geometric shards of the Breton shortbread crust sticking out of the glass, even though the directions say "cubes".

Is there a picture? I like pictures. Specially of desserts.

sorry, I don't believe there were any pix.

I agree with you, CompassRose, I would think that the person who came up with that dessert could probably make a mean traditional apple pie also...

It's too bad that the term "foam" has so many unpleasant connotations to many people, mainly because of the mainstream culinary conservatives who get all riled up about the El Bulli crew, amongst other practitioners of new ideas.

When I look at the recipe for that cinnamon foam, I think of mousse that is delivered to the plate via a gas charged whipper/siphon.

Edited May 14, 2004 by tan319 (log)

[Wendy DeBord]

There are bad examples of all kinds of food everywhere in restaurants.

I can't figure out why almost everytime something outside the realm of typical, traditional,albeit great dessert offerings get's mentioned, you, Wendy, think someone has something to hide?

Why is doing something different indicate boredom with the tried and true?

I don't understand why people can't have both without being suspected of not having the chops.

Some people do have the skills and the chops, quite a few pc's do! Can Chefette and Steve pull that dessert off, hell yes! Can all of us pull it off, HELL NO! (well with their recipe we can, but not of our own creation)

You know, your right Tan. I do have some narrow views or prejudices with food. I don't know, it's got to be about my experiences.

Sometimes it seems like I meet alot of cooks and pc's that just rave about their own work (and I do feel like I've met alot of them over the years).........and then I'm given a sample of their work and it's just horrible.

Sometimes I want to laugh when I read what the item was in PA & D pc's least appreciated desserts column.

Sometimes I truely believe that you have to look at your work as a common person that likes loves food would.

Sometimes I want to ask back to the chefs in the magazine, "did you read your own dessert?" "would you really shell out good hard earned money on something THAT questionable?", "what's your goal here?".

Over all- certainly where I live, good pastries are really really hard to find. Why? It's not about cost, people will pay for excellent work.

I really do believe that the majority of bakeries stink! I really do believe a majority of less experienced pc's are attempting to do work far beyond their knowledge and skills. I have always believed that it's wise to learn how to walk before you run. I see people's bio's and their running, but they have no real training/experience. And everyone wants to believe their the exception, they're the next Payard or Herme'. BUT we all aren't.

How often do we have others tell us how bad the average dessert is or that they just don't buy dessert? I think it's fairly often, I certainly recall Fat Guy complaining about desserts he's gotten. I thought he came with a message to share to enlighten us.

I take it to heart that people are turned off by so much of what they've gotten served for dessert, it makes my job harder to convience people to give me a try (both for a job and in tasting my work).

[tan319]

Have you tasted any of Steves and chefettes work?

Not that I have any doubts that I would enjoy them, and that they're solid, but what would you do if you tasted that apple dessert and gagged?

Not because it was bad but because it was so different from what you usually have, enjoy, etc.

Bios, all that, who says these people can't walk and run?

you said...

"Sometimes I want to ask back to the chefs in the magazine, "did you read your own dessert?" "would you really shell out good hard earned money on something THAT questionable?", "what's your goal here?".

Damn, that's tough.

I guess you might not dig the EVOO sorbet of Steves then.

What's the goal then...?

To try out an idea, maybe something you've seen somewhere that you made and thought it was pretty good, why not see it it can sell?

Maybe the underlying point of that article, and the others that are written about this newer stuff, is that pastry chefs are cooking.

Dessert cuisine, all that stuff.

Why laugh about the least appreciated stuff?

Do you really feel like you can never go out on a limb and try something new?

I know you work in a different kind of pastry environ, but in a restaurant, pastry chefs do specials, maybe 2 specials on a weekend, just like the chef, and sometimes we want to try something out that might push the envelope but hell, why not?

I remember when I was in NY on a visit and I had this great chocolate tasting plate, and the chef sent me out a concord grape soup with a buttermilk sorbet, and I thought is was pretty drab, but it gave me some ideas and it was a noble try on his part. To me.

For all I know, everyone else loved it!

I look at my work like a person, a common person, who loves food, because I do love food.

And I think any good pastry chef, be it Payard or Mason, looks at food in that way.

Sometimes, wouldn't it be better to just enjoy what we do and absorb as much as we can about it without personalising everything, ie:how it affects us in the marketplace, how many people aren't eating dessert, etc.?

I'm coming to the conclusion that people in general, not everyone but always a few, are simply hard to please.

Boring, pissed off, never like a damn thing people.

They never have a dessert, they're never good enough, whatever...

What could be good enough for those people?

A Devil Dog?

A ring Ding?

Snickers?

A Nemos cake?

I can't worry about that stuff anymore.

Yes, I'll get pissed off still every once in awhile about sales.

Someone will annoy me when they bitch about the construction of my dessert .

But that's their tuff luck.

I've got my head down, working my ass off, in two places, and I'm gonna do my best, but fuck'em, I'm not going to let them worry my ass off anymore, I'll give what I think they want, what I feel like making, and I'm going to throw a few curveball's every so often, just to make sure they haven't fallen asleep.

Edited May 14, 2004 by tan319 (log)

[Wendy DeBord]

Do you really feel like you can never go out on a limb and try something new?

I know you work in a different kind of pastry environ, but in a restaurant, pastry chefs do specials, maybe 2 specials on a weekend, just like the chef, and sometimes we want to try something out that might push the envelope but hell, why not?

My menu changes every week-I do four new desserts. In addition every month I have two dessert specials. I rarely make the same thing twice, usually just a component and then change the arrangement. In addition to: banquet desserts, novelty cakes, wedding cakes, sweet tables, mini pastries, take out orders, etc... I have to choose items that I can roll over into another slot. For instance I make a cheesecake for ala cart then I bake a full sheet pan of it too and cut it into petite fours. I need to make items that can be put into any shape or configuration so I save every second possible. Theres alot of items I can't make in this situation, because I also have to deal with freezing-everything has to be able to be frozen and defrosted and served as is, no last touches.

I go out on a limp almost every single day. Today I made milk chocolate passion fruit tarts (I'd never made before), key lime cheesecake (I'd never made before), 2 pineapple cakes with pineapple filling (I'd never made before).......in addition to reg. stuff. Tommarrow I'm making a new chocolate bourbon pecan pie (a recipe I've never used before), an exotic mousse torte (I haven't even desided upon how I was going to combine this, just got the puree-haven't tasted yet).

Granted this is all really boring stuff, but thats what they want here, safe stuff that pays for my wages. But everytime I made these less then dangerous items, I always add my own twist and my own presentation. I always learn something that I didn't know before. It's really not boring, it really can be very challenging to do this well.

I've worked in more goumet situations. I've done just about everything you can think of along the way. I work from the best books I can buy and from the best book authors I know of.

I push the envelop everyday, but it's got to be with-in reason- it's got to sell or I can it. I do indeed dumb down names and descriptions, I think you have to with the clients I have.

The more you look for a job, interview for jobs, learn whats happening and what people think, the more you care about this industry and take things personally when they are going down hill at a fast rate. I don't want to have to find another career again because this field is drying up.

My whole point isn't a personal attack aimed at anyone in particular.........I do think our industry is sick and we need to breath fresh air into it. I choose to do so trying to give people what they want more then what I feel like making, with-in reason. Thats where I work, thats what my job demands.

Again, I totally feel there is a place for daring desserts- just not in every kitchen and everyone hands.

[tan319]

I don't think any of your desserts sound or have sounded boring. I'm running my berry shortcake again tonight as well as the fennel pollen/choc cake one.

[Steve Klc]

Compassrose, thanks for weighing in here because you've crystallized a theme which I think every one of us has reacted to on this thread and that we've all addressed in one way or another, including Andrea:

That sounds cool. Except the cinnamon foam. I'm sorry, foam still isn't appetising to me

How something sounds or seems or appears--or how you think it sounds or seems as you read over a recipe--isn't really as helpful or shouldn't be as relevant as you may think--the proof ultimately is always in the pudding. Ted revealed how the more informed or more aware approach to "foam" should be--it's merely a cooking term, batters for certain cakes have been described as "foamy" for a hundred years and in this case the foam is a type of mousse--just delivered in a newer/higher tech way. How it is delivered or your perception of the technique is not important. The main thing that matters is how something tastes--everything should flow from that taste first--and then you can go on to assess how creative it was, how balanced and or provocative or delicious something is, whether it fit with the style of the cooking which preceeded it at a particular restaurant, etc. And some of us say it a million times but it is still true--taste is subjective and how we taste things and react to things is very personal, very individual. And that's why I initially commented on Andrea's piece by saying I just wish she made it more clear in the piece that she tasted all these desserts and that they were actually "good." Because that would have carried some weight with me--and then I could have tasted them and formed my own opinion of whether Andrea knows what she's talking about--because just from reading about the components you can't really tell anything.

And Ted, I agree it is always best for us to speak in terms of generalizations here, unless we're dealing with specifics in recipes, on menus or in articles. I don't think anyone gains by speculating specifically whether so-and-so can do this or that. But I think I find myself--generally--on the other side of you and Corey on this one aspect: I feel that most of this current or younger generation of restaurant pastry chefs can NOT do the traditional French patisserie classics as well as those "classics" have been done, still are being done or should be done by the more traditionally trained and experienced pastry chefs in that milieu--say like my friend Eric Bedoucha of Bayards, who I feel has the best palate and is perhaps the best and most under-appreciated pastry chef in NYC at the moment, or perhaps someone like Lesley C's husband who is working in very classic, very traditional French styles in Montreal. I encounter more people, not fewer, entering pastry with less-than-adequate training and rushed skill development--we've even had eGulleteers accepting pastry chef jobs in higher end restaurants right out of school charged with creating and executing desserts--and some haven't even gone to school for pastry!

And all of us who aren't as "old school" or as similarly trained likely can't achieve the perfection or transcendence Eric achieves in more traditional forms--we know "how" to achieve it technically and bench skill wise, we could write an article about it for the lowest common denominator how-to cooking mags like Fine Cooking or Cooks Illustrated-- but tasted and executed side-by-side I'm fairly confident this particular Strong group (perhaps with the exception of Bill Yosses as he proved in his Bouley Bakery days) wouldn't achieve what Eric achieves--and that I wouldn't achieve it either because he's better at it than me! But that is perfectly OK because I have my own strengths and my own means for personal expression and creativity, as do these other pastry chefs. In this I can only share my perspective, but I've gotten to travel a lot, I'm in NY a lot, I had the opportunity to write for a few years and was lucky to get out more than most chefs--who don't actually get to taste as much of the work of others as they might like. I have to tell you, my perspective (big picture) is much the same as that of Steve Shaw's perspective as a NYC restaurant critic was, which Wendy brought up--that desserts in general needed to get better, still need to get better, and that he'd had far too many traditional desserts and avant-garde desserts which underwhelmed or didn't work.

I've had so many poor apple tarts, so many poor traditional desserts over time, that I became convinced whether a dessert is traditional or avant-garde doesn't really matter--both are equally likely to underwhelm or not be as good, or not fit the meal or be as well thought out or well executed as they should be. I think the situation is improving somewhat but as we discuss in other threads, the jury is still out. I don't think is being too negative--I just think more pastry chefs have to do what you do, try to express themselves and teach themselves and explore and keep as open a mind as possible--and if it takes getting out in the dining room and selling stuff and giving stuff away, then do it. And I'm not talking about replicating the apple tart taught in a cooking school which is adequate, which represents the form--I'm talking about once you've tasted that "simple" apple tart that is truly special, in the hands of someone special, it becomes harder to appreciate the things that aren't special, it becomes harder to appreciate the standard of ordinariness--and the smarter pastry chefs work their balls off to rise above that standard of ordinariness--even in simpler forms.

With Andrea--I started first by reacting to how her article read and what troubled me about her wording--and tried to draw out from her exact words where I thought she may unintentionally have led her readers astray. But then as you suggested I went back to her website where she herself described the article she thought she wrote for the Post and she referred to it as her piece on the city's craziest desserts. I'd have had no problem with her piece if it just clearly stated this and if her wording didn't reach further, didn't mislead a bit and didn't imply other things, and you seem in the main to have come around to my perspective on this.

To recap, she's not breaking any new ground even to her readership though she creates the impression she is;

This isn't anything new and most of these folks aren't the pioneers though she implies they are;

Her assessment of what dessert choice has been (comforting chocolate souffles and apple tarts) is perfunctory and dismissive;

She even gets that wrong because for some restaurants and cuisines those still ARE the most appropriate and rewarding desserts!

But most importantly, while this more creative track of "crazy" desserts deserves appreciation and deserves attention it shouldn't appear to come at the expense of more traditional forms--and she actually impies this as well by saying anything goes now when we all know, frankly, that it doesn't and shouldn't.

Now, if you peek at her website it becomes clear not only does she think these desserts are the craziest in town--which, by the way, she likely has nailed!--she also thinks some of these Buzz-worthy pastry chefs are the best pastry chefs in the country, and of this group would have preferred to see Mason, Ong and Mehta as James Beard best pastry chef nominees. And again, I can't argue with her choice because based on where she eats, her awareness level of desserts, and her investment in the "what's hot, what's new" schtick, these are the best pastry chefs as far as she's concerned and as far as advancing her career is concerned. And while I support her right to feel that way, someone has to speak up for the bigger picture, remind her of the history, expose her to pastry chefs around the country doing amazing work, to those who aren't in her neighborhood or who create traditional things off her trend radar, the Eric Bedoucha's of NYC and of the rest of this country, and also speak up for those doing impeccable work in more classic, more traditional American forms, because if we don't the Buzz becomes the reality.

[chefette]

Interesting - I think that desserts might fall into several categories

1- Cool presentation where beauty is the driving factor and taste may fall by the wayside (for example dots of sauce - in particular - microscopic dots of sauce that are just there to be pretty and have nothing to do with the dessert, things that have to be constructed or deconstructed by the diner to facilitate consumption - Usually things that involve chocolate or sugar containers usually they cost more and end in quite a bit of waste.

2- Flip side of cool presentation dessert - is the 'rustic' dessert where theoretically taste is everything. The big problem in this category is that many producers have caught on that people think that the 'homey' 'rustic' sort of dumpy simplistic desserts somehow equate directly to great tasting desserts and so go to lots of trouble to create desserts that have that rustic flair - unfortunately most of these people are not preparing simple hearty fresh fare in the Tuscan countryside and the fact that they are trying to make something that looks like it came off the hearth in the 17th century does not mean that it actually tastes good.

3- 'Exotic' desserts where lots of people go for varying reasons and come out with many different types of results based on who they are and why they are going 'exotic'

(and I think that's what we are really talking about here - why did a PC choose to go 'exotic', how did they pursue it, where did they go with it, and how successful were they at what they produced?)

3a- 'Exotic' unusual flavors or ingredients - the chef may be bored with the same old same old or may like these flavors or ingredients and feels that they need more exposure. The question is do they introduce exotics as touches, highlights. Are they using unusual rare ingredients that are little known, or are they moving ingredients that we don't normally think about as dessert ingredients into their desserts? Do they have a real handle on the flavors and harmonies they are creating or are they just out on a limb. In the end - does something 'work' or is it just weird? This category probably should be split into 'exotic' ingredients on the one hand and unusual use of common ingredients on the other.

3b. Refocusing and reinterpreting cherished or simple desserts through deconstruction, examination of texture, flavor, temperature. Why? well, it may be that a PC thinks that the problem with apple pie one gets in the 21st century and latter 20th is never really fresh and warm like they recall Grandma's pie being- that they loved the warm tartness of the apples, the bite of lemon, the buttery crust (stuff like that) but that more often than not the current pie has to be made a day ahead - may have suffered freezing, etc. The challenge for this PC is to make a dessert that gives the diner the very sensations about grandma's apple pie that the PC loves.

I think that all approaches to desserts can produce great results and they can all produce disastrous awful results. The issue is that this is sort of where personality and art play a role and that not understanding 'WHY' you are doing something but working to fit into a trend or going for a 'look' will ultimately be trouble. This is about who you are and how you cook. Some people have a knack for design and some do not. Some people can make dough sing for them and could produce anything over a wood fire with a rock but couldn't make a passion fruit roll down hill. I guess ultimately it is a question of who you are and how you see the world and that the most successful PCs do work that truly reflects their perspective and the least successful are those that blindly attempt to copy the styles of others. I am NOT saying that you cannot use someone else's recipe and succeed - I am talking about going out and doing something independently to be part of a trend or achieve the appearance of something without actually understanding what you are doing.

I feel that Conticini and Adria and other very individual, very personal chefs and pastry chefs don't necessarily care what everyone else is doing - but they have insight on what they want to make and how you should have it and they use foams or plastic syringes or purees or canned corn to provide to the diner their perspective of a perfect bite, their vision of a taste the fullest way that they can. These people actually want to share very directly with the diner exactly what they like (the temperature, the texture, the zing, etc) about something. I think that it is actually a very controlling, very positive and very personal interaction between the chef and the diner.

When I did that apple pie a la mode I originally was thinking the following:

1- Its Fall and its apple time

2- Apple pie and gingerbread cookies (tastes I associate with late October/early November)

3- I also need to come up with a dessert using cheese for the IHMRS at the same time - lots of people apparently enjoy cheese on apple pie

4- I like hot apple pie that has not been out of the oven too long I like it with ice cream

5- I have to do this dessert for about 600 people - how do you give 600 people fresh hot apple pie with cheese?

6- I could not really go with ice cream since keeping it cold and scooping it would be inconvenient at best - impossible at worst so I tried combining my ice cream concept with the cheese angle making a cheese anglaise that I foamed/made into a mousse - This did not work out as well as I had hoped and I had to keep playing to achieve the taste I wanted people to have - hot apples with brown sugar, the tangy lemon, the buttery crust, the cool creaminess of ice cream, the warmth of cinnamon, and the grounding of cheddar cheese.

So you see, I went through a process of examining what I liked about apple pie ala mode and then another process of how to deliver that (force that same perspective) on my diners. In the end I think that the cinnamon foam and the cheese custard were the big favorites of most tasters. I thought that the cheese custard was the most dangerous element that might be a problem for diners. But no worry--I also did this as a guest chef at Walt Disney World during last year's Epcot International Food & Wine Festival (a fantastic event by the way) for hundreds of just regular old American folks and they just dug in with their spoon and loved their apple pie in a glass, cheese and all.

And we have not even talked about why people EAT or ORDER or are fascinated about these daring desserts... Maybe they are just bored. Maybe everything else is so disappointing that they figure what have they got to loose?

[Gifted Gourmet]

Another unusual dessert appears in today's Raleigh News and Observer and explores the mysteries of an old Southern favorite:

honeysuckle sorbet

Bill Smith, head chef at Crook's Corner restaurant, grabs a small plastic tub of his famous honeysuckle sorbet from his freezer and three spoons.

Just a little dab of the icy, seasonal dessert can transport any Southerner back to a hot May night when the tree- and bush-choking vines are full of the fragrant white and yellow flowers.

That first taste is like pinching off the narrow end of a honeysuckle blossom and sucking out that tiny drop of nectar.

None too sure how available honeysuckle blossoms are elsewhere but definitely something delightful when you can find them!

[tan319]

There are some buzz words being used here that are used often that, to use one, I'm "disappointed" about.

Disappointed is one of them.

Everyone is "disappointed" in dessert, so many of them suck. That's why they order the weird desserts.

I used to go to Les Halles when I lived in NY all the time and always would have dessert, even though it was always disappointing.

I used to go to Mesa Grill and Bolo and would always have dessert and don't think I ever had a bad one.

When I worked at Chicama, in the ABC fine furnishings store next door they had pastries by Payard and I thought they were ok but they didn't change my life or anything.

Funny story about Payard I just remembered...

The New York Times had that chef column thing going, Payard was featured and there was a recipe for a pound cake with apples that he did, famous one that his dad actually did.

I was invited to a party , a dinner party that a friend of mine from DC was going to be at and cooking for, in NY so I made Payards apple pound cake, 2 of them, to bring to it.

I get there and my friend had brought 2 of the real ones, from Payards shop.

Everyone thought mine was better!

Go figure...

Maybe it's because I'm getting older or something, I just hit the half century mark recently, but being disappointed by dessert somewhere is just not getting to me.

It's like McDonalds, if the fries are fresh, the other stuff too, it can make it all worthwhile.

But how many times does that happen?

chefette nails it with the thought that, if I'm reading this correctly, that any kind of cooking is easy to screw up.

Steve is more then likely right that most new pastry guys and gals probably don't do the classics justice.

Does it really matter?

I'm not being flip about this, seriously, but, do you have to be able to do the most sublime Paris Brest or St. Honore to go on to something else?

I know Steve wasn't saying that, but it got me thinking about it.

A lot of stuff here that has me thinking...

Re:

Entry level people becoming pastry chefs.

I was looking for an assistant pastry chef position here when I was drafted into the PC position.

Should I have not done it? Because I hadn't done it before?

Here I am three years later, every review in the media here has been extremely positive, often more positive about my stuff then the savory food ( not that they got bombed all the time)

I've been on TV , silly as that sounds, extremely lucky I've been .

Maybe Zilla's stuff is really good, I hope so. She's the only person who became appointed "pastry chef" right out of school that I remember.

I get what Steve says though, that those great moments of tasting something that transcends, it is hard to accept anything less then that after but, it's going to happen.

I guess what I'm trying to say is I don't want to be cynical about this stuff.

Andrea Strong is excited about the Ongs, Masons, Methas, they sound exciting to me too.

Just like Adria excites me, and I have nothing to parley that into, maybe her excitement, I'd like to think her only reason for being excited about it, is because it IS exciting.

Like hearing a song on the radio for the first time that sounds like nothing else out there, and wanting more of that sound.

So,personally, I think her excitement is more about her being excited, and less about career advancement.

If that's a result of it, so be it, best wishes, good luck, you go ,gurl!

That's about it, hope it makes sense, I'm beat, end of a very long day.

[cbarre02]

Steve great post, it really got me thinking. You know I am still of the generation of the new culinary school grads, well at least close enough. And you are right, 90 percent (or more... honest) cannot execute desserts that wow. Especially classic desserts, and the more modern ones can be just as difficult. You are right in saying that most people specialize in some area, and therefore fall short in others...

Brain surgeons my have the most innovative jobs in medicine, but I don't want one fixing my ingrown toenail (sorry about the mental picture).

I have to say that I was wrong in statement that "they can all make great apple tortes", though some of them may. Your post made me reflect on my own self, and what I am great at... and not so great at. Can make an apple tart? Yes, but will it be the mind blowing experience that it could be... maybe not. I think that your right that those who excel in traditional type desserts should see congratulations for them. This is life commitment that they have dedicated them selves to, and strive for perfection, just as the do the "crazy desserts chefs".

I suppose ultimately it does come down to the chef, and what they are striving for. As chefs we want ultimate satisfaction for our customers (or at least I hope we do), so we find the best way that we know how to do this and stick to our guns. The longer we spend in one style the better we get (in most circumstances), but also the more we neglect other styles. There are few who have the kinesthetic ability to just "get" every thing. Chefette made a profound statement in her break down of pastry, there are so many types of styles so too are there so many type of pastry chefs. The ones who excel in there categories, or style should all get the credit they deserve.

Some where along the way they have made a decision that they want thier food to be great, and so they put there time, blood, sweat, tears, relationships, and all the other things that this career can take, on the line. There is one thing that we all can agree on; this business is a jealous one. If we don't give to it what we want in return... it will bite us, HARD!

So Cheers to the pastry chefs making those oh so wonderful warm apple tarts, to the pastry chefs making the "Crazy desserts", and all the others who are doing there best to make great endings for your meals. You have a position; what ever your styles maybe, do it to the best of you ability. More importantly is the respect for each other and each other’s style, which we have to have.

[Wendy DeBord]

Cbarre, I loved the end of your last post. Makes me realize that's what I'm looking for too, thank-you for writing that.

Tan, if I had the same opportunity as you, I'd have taken the job too, no DOUBT! The best way to learn pastry is to dive into it day in and day out.

.... I've had a hard time accepting that the style that always gets the media attention is the wildest or newest trend. I wish reviewers would only address quality as their hook, whether they found it in something daring or something traditional and guide the reader to why they need to try this is because it's damn good, not damn different.

[tan319]

All of the media attention?

Don't think so.

PA&D = maybe one article , two if you count Conticini, in the last 5 years.

Bits and bobs in the mainstream press, here and there.

People like Luchetti, Yard, Gand, the people who do solid, traditional based desserts get a good deal of press, usually based around book releases. Yes, I know Gand plays around in a lot of different styles, but her books are solid French/American style dessert ideas.

That's how it works.

Anything that's new, a trend, maybe even trendy, are going to get some movement because that's the nature of mdeia. Witness Atkins, you would think it was a new diet, when we all know it's been around for quite awhile.

Nice post, Corey.