Dressing "on the side"

[JennotJenn]

Now there was a piece of marketing that really understood its target audience! Women back then didn't want to be told that they could just make their own fresh from scratch - too scary - but they did want to give themselves and others the impression that they did so. So they totally bought into the deal. Such a business! Is this a great country or what!

Dunno if this is apochryphal/urban legend stuff, but I remember hearing that the first cake mixes (B Crocker?) contained powdered egg, so all you had to do was add water, mix & bake. They didn't sell well, "women back then" (which I guess is much further back than Good Seasons) needed to feel like they were doing SOMETHING. So Gen Foods removed the dried egg, added "add egg" to the instructions, & the death knell sounded for cakes-from-scratch.

Dressing on the side? I'm with the "generally too much" crowd.

Tho these days you will find me asking simply for the oil & vinegar, since I have no way to determine the salt content of any other dressing when I'm dining out.

No, I think that's true. I was just about to post same.

I order on the side in most places. Local steakhouses seem to be the worst offenders. Oh, and the offense? Too much dressing. Dude, I ordered a salad, not freakin' coleslaw.

Something like a Cesar salad is different, but how many places make a good, real Cesar anymore?

[redfox]

Speaking of TV ads - remember Anna Maria Alberghetti and that whole Good Seasons thing? Never thought about it before, but what a scam! You pay your money for their special bottle and their packets of stuff... and then you have to put together the oil and vinegar yourself anyway... so you're paying them for the privilege of making your own dressing.

But it works great for me, because I love their dorky little cruets, and if I ever lose or break the one I have, I can always get a new one for cheap! Of course I have to throw or give away the packets of Good Seasons, but that's a small price to pay.

[purplewiz]

But you're kidding yourself if you think you're going to get a better distribution of dressing at the table with your fork than i can achieve in the kitchen.

It depends....are you going to put all the ingredients for a salad in a bowl, then toss lightly so each piece is lightly coated with the dressing? Then plate it up and serve it?

If so, you probably are.

If not, I'm probably going to get the too small bowl overflowing with greens and a large blorb of dressing in the middle. Not only is there probably more dressing than I care for there, but because the serving bowl is so small I don't even have room to toss in the dressing myself without having greens flying everywhere.

So I order the dressing on the side so I can "work in" some dressing in a small area of the salad, then eat it....and then, having made room in the bowl/plate, add a little more dressing to another little area, work it in, eat, repeat until done. This way I make sure the dressing is distributed well, rather than having some poor leaves of lettuce drowning while some run around naked.

Marcia.

[bloviatrix]

Dunno if this is apochryphal/urban legend stuff, but I remember hearing that the first cake mixes (B Crocker?) contained powdered egg, so all you had to do was add water, mix & bake. They didn't sell well, "women back then" (which I guess is much further back than Good Seasons) needed to feel like they were doing SOMETHING. So Gen Foods removed the dried egg, added "add egg" to the instructions, & the death knell sounded for cakes-from-scratch.

This isn't urban legand. Laura Shapiro, in her new book Something From the Oven:Reinventing Dinner in 1950s America discusses this.

[lala]

Zillah, in a perfect world, every cook would be as conciencious as you in making good salads. Unfortunatley, it's not a perfect world. I always give the benefit of the doubt and order the salad as is when I go to a new place. If I go back, and order the dressing on the side, that means that there was too much dressing the first time (there's not much hope in asking for the right amount of dressing to be put on the salad if it's their habit to overdress). I eat salad to get my veggies, and there's just no point if it's doused in fat and sugar.

[zilla369]

It depends....are you going to put all the ingredients for a salad in a bowl, then toss lightly so each piece is lightly coated with the dressing? Then plate it up and serve it?

You betcha. I also lightly season the mixture at the same time.

Heh. I bet nobody's got the stones to order dressing on the side at Keller's places (although, come to think of it, he'd probably direct the kitchen to accomodate this request like he does so many others.)

Please understand i always, always, provide dressing on the side if directed, and still build the salad with the same loving attention as i would if i were dressing it. I just think egulleteers are probably more discerning diners than most. I could just about swear your average diner is doing it out of some weird habit, given that they're using all the dressing i send out, and again, i haven't seen anyone taste it first. They just order it on the side, dump it on, and stir.

Question:

Do you "dressing-on-the-siders" order your entree sauces on the side, as well?

[Pickles]

Speaking of TV ads - remember Anna Maria Alberghetti and that whole Good Seasons thing? Never thought about it before, but what a scam! You pay your money for their special bottle and their packets of stuff... and then you have to put together the oil and vinegar yourself anyway... so you're paying them for the privilege of making your own dressing. Now there was a piece of marketing that really understood its target audience! Women back then didn't want to be told that they could just make their own fresh from scratch - too scary - but they did want to give themselves and others the impression that they did so. So they totally bought into the deal. Such a business! Is this a great country or what!

Oh sure I remember her...and Good Seasons. I love that stuff! So "garlicky" and almost overly Good Seasoned. Matter of fact, I haven't bought it in years and I have a hankering since you mentioned it. You can just buy the packets now sans cruet (with the lines to tell you how much oil, vinegar and...water to add).

Anna Maria Alberghetti

".....in a taxi, honey...!"

Edited May 9, 2004 by Pickles (log)

[balmagowry]

And you bet I'll be ready by half-past eight!

I think you always could buy the packets separately once you had the cruet - no? Refills. Sorry I got you going - maybe you'd better get over to the Incredibly Strange Cravings thread and make confession. It's supposed to be good for the soul....

And... ah honey, don't be late -

I wanna be there when the band starts playing!

Does that date us, or what?

[NulloModo]

Heh. I bet nobody's got the stones to order dressing on the side at Keller's places (although, come to think of it, he'd probably direct the kitchen to accomodate this request like he does so many others.)

Question:

Do you "dressing-on-the-siders" order your entree sauces on the side, as well?

With regard to the first comment:

If Keller had a traditionalist salad on the menu, why not? His place and function is to serve guests the food as they request it.

With regards to the second:

I personally hardly ever order entree sauces on the side, unless I have previous experience with the dish in question at the restaurant in question and the amount of sauce is just too great. This has only happened, IMO, however, at chains, as I recall I have a couple dishes at Olive Garden and Macaroni Grill that require this treatment, and if sauced with more discretion than the kitchen tends to do, can be somewhat palatable.

I will also order sides of sauces that don't come with a dish, for adding to other side dishes occasionally, but that is another matter. I don't see what is wrong with ordering up some blue cheese dressing or barbecue sauce for the dipping of french fries, or to pour on some mashed potatoes.

[lala]

Question:

Do you "dressing-on-the-siders" order your entree sauces on the side, as well?

No, that's a different issue. For me, too much salad dressing ruins the salad. It's impossible to remove, unless one wants to squeegee each leaf. Too much sauce (if there is any) on an entree is easier to deal with. But then, entree sauces are a whole different animal from salad dressings. Entree sauces are usually eagerly sopped up with the bread and enjoyed.

However, if a diner requests anything on the side, I don't think it should be a huge issue for the kitchen. People have dietary issues, and just plain quirks, but they're getting out there and supporting restaurants, which can only be a good thing, right?

[tommy]

But you're kidding yourself if you think you're going to get a better distribution of dressing at the table with your fork than i can achieve in the kitchen.

i really don't think so. and i think mine is probably a popular opinion, and one based on experience, judging from the comments here from what i can only assume are experienced diners and cooks, at all levels.

Edited May 9, 2004 by tommy (log)

[Jonathan Day]

In many restaurants, the construct is not "a salad" but "a salad, with what kinda dressing? French, Thousand Islands, Blue Cheese?". In that case, you aren't really getting one thing, you're getting two: leaves plus dressing.

In other restaurants -- and these usually tend to be the more high-end -- the salad can't really be deconstructed into "leaves" plus "dressing" as distinct components. They may be offering salades composées, constructed salads. In those cases, it would be absurd to ask for the dressing on the side, and in any event the restaurant might struggle to comply.

But if it's simply "a bowlful of leaves or vegetables, plus any of several pre-made sauces, then I side with those who ask for the sauce separately. You're ordering two things, like chips and ketchup or toast and butter.

[porkpa]

If I'm at a high quality joint where there isn't a choice of dressings I'll rarely order it on the side. At others I usually will. The important thing here, I believe is what is the correct amount of dressing. What is too much for some people, may not be enough for others. Where there is one house dressing, I have usually found it to be pretty good and find that they usually apply it judiciously - at least they do to my taste.

Porkpa

[KateW]

I don't think anyone has mentioned this, and I'm sorry if I missed it, but if you order the dressing on the side, you can dip each piece of salad into the dressing and get that "evenly coated" effect. Also you end up using a lot less dressing than if you gloop the whole dish onto the salad.

Most of the restaurants I go to (low end, I sadly admit) put the dressing on the side as is, and I don't go out of my way to order dressing on the side. If I'm at a high end restaurant, chances are their salad isn't going to come with ranch dressing glooped on top. I don't mind a lot of a *good* dressing.

I enjoy entree sauces with gusto.

And no, I don't trust people in kitchens. I've gotten orders screwed up too many times to be trusting. It's just human error. It's too bad not everyone who works in kitchens can be a culinary school grad and/or actually care about what they're doing.

Surely you must have gotten more interesting requests than "dressing on the side". Do we have a thread for that?

[jhlurie]

And no, I don't trust people in kitchens. I've gotten orders screwed up too many times to be trusting.

For me it depends on my relationship with that restaurant and the overall rep. of the place. I might go in trusting them, but if I've been there and there is a history of over-dressing, isn't it better for the place that I simply ask for it on the side rather than adandon the restaurant completely based on this one annoyance?

[Pickles]

Richard Simmons' diet trick: By all means order the blue cheese if you're watching your weight, but order the dressing on the side, dip your fork into the dressing, and then spear some salad. You don't use as much.

[ronnie_suburban]

I like to control the amount of dressing on my salad. Period.

If I'm at a high-end place, I let the kitchen handle it but otherwise, "on the side" please.

=R=

[Suzanne F]

Zilla, don't take it personally.

It's just ignorant customers who have not eaten in decent restaurants often enough to know that they can trust the kitchen staff to make food properly, and who are used to being served by waiters who have a huge empty space between their ears and so cannot convey any useful information in any direction, least of all between customer and kitchen.

You're working in a start-up, right? Once the word gets around that you make a proper salad, and you get enough repeat business, that problem should go away.

[ronnie_suburban]

I think it has more to do with previous bad experiences than ignorance.

But I agree that the salad maker should not take it personally.

=R=

[tommy]

It's just ignorant customers who have not eaten in decent restaurants often enough to know that they can trust the kitchen staff to make food properly, and who are used to being served by waiters who have a huge empty space between their ears and so cannot convey any useful information in any direction, least of all between customer and kitchen.

so that means i'm an ignorant customer? that's pretty far-fetched, and probably not very accurate by most reasonable measures.

[Pickles]

Zilla, don't take it personally.

It's just ignorant customers who have not eaten in decent restaurants often enough to know that they can trust the kitchen staff to make food properly

If I am at a REALLY swanky place, I will not ask for my salad with dressing on the side because I think in that environment, it would be very tacky and nearly very bad manners to be scooping/dipping my own dressing onto my greens. If I am at a relaxed and fun Steak House type place with my pals, or out at another casual place, or watching my waist line for that matter, I will ask that my blue cheese be put on the side.

[afoodnut]

When they ask what kind of dressing I want on my salad, I choose, and ask for it on the side. It's obvious to me that salad and dressing are not a single, unified dish. My choice of how much dressing, whether or not I like the dressing at all, is as good as the person's who's plating.

When they just bring salad, and don't ask about dressing, it's usually because salad is treated as an important part of the meal, and how it's dressed is as important and treated as carefully as any other component of the meal; then I trust the chef/cook.

[phaelon56]

It's obvious to me that salad and dressing are not a single, unified dish.

I think the point that's been well established here is the fact that in most higher end restaurants, the saled is in fact a unified dish. A particular dressing is proscribed for a specific sald construct, the salad is dress in the kitchen and it is in fact done far more effectively than one can do it at the table without making a mess.

A few cases in point:

* A traditional, properly constructed Caesar salad, regardless of whether it is assembled at tableside or in the kitchen, will be superior to taking the same lettuce, creating the dressing separately and then justy pouring it on yourself and stirring with a fork.

* The best salad I have ever eaten was at Etta's in Seattle. Every single piece of baby spinach was perfectly coated with a light vinagrette in a way that couldn't possibly be done by a diner at the table. There wasn't one excess drop of dressing on the plate - an ideal balance.

* Low end local restaurants where I eat on occasion or perhaps a chain I might eat at when on business travel (or with friends who insist on eating there): 90% of the time the dressing is a rather gloppy Sysco style bottled product and yes, it's nearly always applied to liberally. I typically use less than half of the dressing "on the side" initially and then add a bit more further down in the salad only if it really needs it.

It just isn't a one size fits all situation.

[Jinmyo]

When they ask what kind of dressing I want on my salad, I choose, and ask for it on the side. It's obvious to me that salad and dressing are not a single, unified dish. My choice of how much dressing, whether or not I like the dressing at all, is as good as the person's who's plating.

When they just bring salad, and don't ask about dressing, it's usually because salad is treated as an important part of the meal, and how it's dressed is as important and treated as carefully as any other component of the meal; then I trust the chef/cook.

Right.

[ronnie_suburban]

My choice of how much dressing, whether or not I like the dressing at all, is as good as the person's who's plating.

But, to split this point a bit further, it's not even about good vs. bad, better vs. worse or any qualitative measure. It's about one's preference and IMO, in matters of preference, there is no right or wrong. It's completely subjective.

That said, I agree with several posters about the difference between a standard salad and a composed salad. If I'm asked what kind of dressing I want on my salad, it's perfectly acceptable to ask for that dressing on the side. If the salad has an 'author', I go with the flow or I order something else.

This isn't like sauce-on-the-side IMO, it's a much grayer area.

=R=