Help! My sides are splitting but not with laughter

[bobmac]

Actually, this is two questions. I've been trying to bake an Eastern European style sour rye, and even though I slash the top with a lame, the sides crack open. Why?

Also most recipes I see for this kind of bread call for caramel or some other coloring agent in addition to molasses. I sometimes buy an excellent loaf that's made in Latvia (if I could get it consistently, I'd forget about trying to duplicate it), and I doubt it has anything added just for color. It seems unlikely that generations ago some peasant making bread cared about the aesthetics. Is it just more molasses?

[chefpeon]

Sigh......making rye has always been a thorn in my side, that's for sure.....

I baked artisan bread in a wholesale shop for 2 years, and if there was one bread

that gave me trouble night after night, it was that freakin' rye!

My theory about your splitting sides is that your dough doesn't have enough gluten

(or development) to hold structure as it's baking. Rye flour doesn't have a lot of

gluten in it anyway, and depending on what other flour you are using....that could

be the problem.

Also, proofing time.....are you proofing it too long, maybe?

Do you use steam in your oven?

As far as color goes, I never added caramel color to my rye.....I used blackstrap

molasses, which is very dark and somewhat smoky. Gave me the color I needed,

and an interesting flavor too. Maybe that's what the Latvian peasants used......

Just guessin'.......

Cheers! Annie

[nightscotsman]

My guess would be you're underproofing. The outside is hardening and forming a crust which can't hold in the power of the yeast on the inside that's still getting a lot of oven-spring. I've seen this on croissants in the past. You want to proof the loaves to the point where the yeast is almost exhausted, so you get some oven-spring, but not a huge amount.

[yorkshirepud]

What shape are you forming the bread into? Are you pinching the seams? Perhaps you're not pinching them enough and this is causing the cracking.

As for the color ... do you think it could be coffee or chocolate (they'd be in very small amounts so you wouldn't detect the taste). I know Pumpernickel has coffee/chocolate in it.

Edited May 6, 2004 by yorkshirepud (log)

[bobmac]

My guess would be you're underproofing. The outside is hardening and forming a crust which can't hold in the power of the yeast on the inside that's still getting a lot of oven-spring. I've seen this on croissants in the past. You want to proof the loaves to the point where the yeast is almost exhausted, so you get some oven-spring, but not a huge amount.

Underproofing might be my problem, but I've also had trouble with overproofing -- it's a sourdough and a long, slow rise. It tends to get slack if overproofed, so I guess it's a fine line. My most recent problem was with a recipe I doubled, so maybe the outside did harden too fast, given that the temperature was for a smaller loaf.

Edited May 6, 2004 by bobmac (log)

[chefpeon]

Underproofing might be my problem, but I've also had trouble with overproofing -- it's a sourdough and a long, slow rise. It tends to get slack if overproofed, so I guess it's a fine line.

YEAH! That's why I hated doing the rye! It would take FOREVER to proof....I'd keep checking it.....and it was like watching a pot boil. I finally would just sort of forget about it, then bam.....I'd always miss it......it'd be overproofed! Sometimes I got lucky and caught it at the right moment, which I think only lasts about 15 seconds , and I'd have lovely rye.....but most of the time.....well........shit.

I'm probably the last person to give any advice about making perfect rye.....but.....I've

sure paid my dues in the "screw-up" department!

I actually know what perfectly proofed rye looks and feels like (I've seen the Loch Ness Monster too.....and, ahem....just as often.)

Seriously, I think nightscotsman is probably right.....underproofing sounds real logical to me

now that I really think about it.

Who says proofing ain't an art?????

Annie

[McDuff]

Once you find and fix the mistake in it, the Levy family rye in Rose's bread bible is a fabulous loaf, if you need a jumping off point.

I agree on the underproofing thing. Rye can pop open to make some really ugly bread. But there is nothing more satisfying than one done right. Screaming for nitrate-laden fatty cold cuts, sharp cheese, hot mustard, pickles and draft Heineken.

[millivanilli]

My German bread baking book has a troubleshoot section, describing everything that could possibly go wrong with the loaves and the reasons. Split sides - according to the Bäckermeister/author - are caused by too little water in the dough (too stiff), underproofing, or too little heat from below.

Overproofing would cause the crumb to make irregular, large bubbles or cracks in the crust (also caused by various other reasons)

I have been successfully baking rye breads the way I like them for 6 months now, even though I can get decent rye bread in Germany. But I prefer all rye, all sourdough leavening (no yeast!!) and traditional bread spices - caraway, fennel, anise, coriander. I make a fairly wet dough, let it rise until it is about 1 1/2 its original size, which normally takes around 3-4 hours. Then I shape it and let it rise in wooden bread baskets until almost doubled, another 2 hours at room temperature. The wet dough is easier to keep under control shapewise in a form and ensures a higher loaf.

[millivanilli]

My German bread baking book has a troubleshoot section, describing everything that could possibly go wrong with the loaves and the reasons. Split sides - according to the Bäckermeister/author - are caused by too little water in the dough (too stiff), underproofing, or too little heat from below.

Overproofing would cause the crumb to make irregular, large bubbles or cracks in the crust (also caused by various other reasons)

I have been successfully baking rye breads the way I like them for 6 months now, even though I can get decent rye bread in Germany. But I prefer all rye, all sourdough leavening (no yeast!!) and traditional bread spices - caraway, fennel, anise, coriander. I make a fairly wet dough, let it rise until it is about 1 1/2 its original size, which normally takes around 3-4 hours. Then I shape it and let it rise in wooden bread baskets until almost doubled, another 2 hours at room temperature. The wet dough is easier to keep under control shapewise in a form and ensures a higher loaf.

[bobmac]

Once you find and fix the mistake in it, the Levy family rye in Rose's bread bible is a fabulous loaf, if you need a jumping off point.

I agree on the underproofing thing. Rye can pop open to make some really ugly bread. But there is nothing more satisfying than one done right. Screaming for nitrate-laden fatty cold cuts, sharp cheese, hot mustard, pickles and draft Heineken.

Coincidentally, I was using the sourdough recipe in Rose's book and doubling it. The doubling might have been part of the problem. Great book! The bagels I made from her recipe are the only kind my wife likes now.

[philbo]

You might also try a moister environment for the first few minutes of baking. If you put a cup of boiling water into a preheated sheetpan or iron skillet, the water will steam up the oven. That should prevent your crusts from hardening prematurely.

Edited May 7, 2004 by philbo (log)