Per Se Fire, Reopening, Rescheduling

[Fat Guy]

how much of Per Se's client base do you think egullet represents??

We're a significant statistical sample of Per Se's target audience. Look at the number of people on eGullet who had reservations during the first 60 days of a 16-table restaurant's existence. It would be foolhardy for Per Se's management to ignore the feedback being given here.

i'd think anticipation is building, if anything, amongst the general public.

The general public doesn't eat at Thomas Keller's restaurants. What I see here, among a group that does eat at Thomas Keller's restaurants, is a desire for information and, among a portion of that group, a growing annoyance at the lack of information. Even if that information was "we have no idea what's going on, but we promise to take care of you when we do know what's going on" it would mean a lot to a lot of people.

[marcus]

Whether you're a celebrity planning a party or a foodie.  It was supposed to be the trendy thing to do this spring - and - good grief - if the chef has deprived us of our right to be trendy - we'll be pissed off at him.  G-d forbid we should eat there 6 months after all the trendy people have already eaten there.

This is a knee jerk analysis that is overly simplistic and I believe incorrect. The issue is not trendiness, I'm sure that is not at all the motivation of most of the posters on this thread. There are only a handful of restaurants in NYC, fewer than 10, that represent ultra high end luxury dining that aspires to culinary magnificance. These restaurants have all been around for a long time, some are in decline and others that may be maintaining their standards are not innovating sufficiently to maintain the interest of the most dedicated diners. Per Se represents an opportunity to try something new and different at this level with the expectation that it may be great. Of course one can do this six months from now, but so what, what can one do now, time counts, it's not irrelevant. Having to defer gratification is painful, and it is this pain, as minor in the grand scheme of things as it may be, that is giving rise to all of these assorted complaints that may come across as trivial and petty to a more dispassionate reader.

[robyn]

Whether you're a celebrity planning a party or a foodie.  It was supposed to be the trendy thing to do this spring - and - good grief - if the chef has deprived us of our right to be trendy - we'll be pissed off at him.  G-d forbid we should eat there 6 months after all the trendy people have already eaten there.

This is a knee jerk analysis that is overly simplistic and I believe incorrect. The issue is not trendiness, I'm sure that is not at all the motivation of most of the posters on this thread. There are only a handful of restaurants in NYC, fewer than 10, that represent ultra high end luxury dining that aspires to culinary magnificance. These restaurants have all been around for a long time, some are in decline and others that may be maintaining their standards are not innovating sufficiently to maintain the interest of the most dedicated diners. Per Se represents an opportunity to try something new and different at this level with the expectation that it may be great. Of course one can do this six months from now, but so what, what can one do now, time counts, it's not irrelevant. Having to defer gratification is painful, and it is this pain, as minor in the grand scheme of things as it may be, that is giving rise to all of these assorted complaints that may come across as trivial and petty to a more dispassionate reader.

I discussed this thread with my husband at dinner tonight. My husband is the ultimate conservative Wasp - and the ultimate foodie. He dines in posh restaurants because he likes to eat sublime food. He also dines in nice restaurants because he likes to eat very good food. He can eat blindfolded - and tell you whether he's eating at a 1, 2 or 3 star place. IOW - he likes to eat - and he knows about eating. He doesn't care if he's the first person to eat in a place when its star is ascending - or the last before the lights go out.

He has been eating like this for over 30 years now. And he frankly couldn't make sense of this thread. It just didn't compute from his point of view. So if he can wait a year or two (and it probably won't come to that) - so can every 20-50 something in New York.

I don't get it either. Are the people in this thread such jaded children that if they can't have what they want - NOW - they just stamp their feet and go into a tizzy? Have you never bought a bottle of wine - and put it away to be drunk years later when it has matured?

By the way - perhaps you didn't mean to - but your message gives the impression that New York is sorely lacking in world class restaurants. Those that exist have been around too long - are in decline - yada yada yada. If you are that jaded - I think you should wake up and smell the roses. Or have the short ribs at Le Cirque 2000 - or the dessert trolley at ADNY - or any one of a number of other things out there (although the mentioned short ribs and dessert trolley were my recent favorites). New York is one of the greatest eating cities in the world (often on the high end and the low end, and sometimes in the middle). What would you do if Per Se *never* opened - kill yourself out of boredom? I hope not.

Anyway - I will raise a glass to Chef Keller - and hope that when he gets his enterprise going again - that his food will sing - and that all of these trivial complaints will be forgotten. Do I detect a clink of glasses - and a "hear, hear" in the background? Robyn

[Fat Guy]

The basic point here doesn't involve any agendas or sweeping generalizations about New Yorkers, the people on this thread, or anyone else. What we are looking at here is a fundamental failure on the part of Per Se's management to communicate some very simple information to its clientele. Apparently, neither you nor your husband is bothered by that lack of information. Presumably, most people won't be. But a percentage of those who went to the trouble of getting reservations and planning around them -- regardless of whether the impetus for a reservation represented a deep character flaw or a simple desire to eat at the restaurant -- do seem to be bothered by it. And while it didn't bother me back in February, to me it's starting to get a bit irritating as April approaches. So I very much sympathize with the annoyed group.

[Bux]

Show me two great restaurants and then tell me that one has a great PR team and the other has none at all and I'll tell you I really respect the chef with a PR team as a businessman, but it the food is equal, I won't prefer the one because it has a great PR team. Serve me great food when you're up and running and treat me well. The PR hype is only useful as news. It's useless as "no news."

Why does a restaurant have to issue a series of press releases to say that there's no news yet? When there's news, I'm sure there will be news. No news is no news whether it comes from silence or via massive mailings and phone calls. We've perverted the media. It's now required to tell us nothing. We used to be disappointed at no news. Now we want it at regular intervals. I'm sorry, I honestly believe people have something better to do than tell me nothing. If they don't, they should find some honest work.

And oh yeah, if there was a string of "nothing new to say" no news press reports coming out of Per Se, there would be a bunch of people accusing them of thinking they were so important that we needed to be reminded they didn't know when they were opening.

[marcus]

He has been eating like this for over 30 years now.  And he frankly couldn't make sense of this thread.  It just didn't compute from his point of view.  So if he can wait a year or two (and it probably won't come to that) - so can every 20-50 something in New York.

It's very easy to take one's own point of view and project it onto the world. It's actually the most basic market research error. Better is to try to understand where other people are coming from. I personally have not attempted a reservation at Per Se and do not have an urgent interest in eating there. I was taking exception to your assertion that peoples motivating interest was the pursuit of trendiness. Well, rather than support your original position, you're now making rather different assertions, the common theme being that one way or another, you're unhappy with this thread. And by proxy from your husband, it doesn't make sense and it doesn't compute. And obviously, however he (you) view(s) matters should be good enough for everyone else.

[Fat Guy]

Let me try to break this down into two areas in which I think Per Se is failing:

Customer relations. It seems that every customer who received a call in early March was told something similar to what I was told. As I reported on March 2, "The woman I spoke to this morning said that they would be calling each canceled-reservation-holder to reschedule. She said the calls would come in March, and that they'd be rescheduling for dates during the couple of months following." Now that March is ending, it seems that we won't be getting those calls. That, to me, is by definition such a fundamental customer-relations mistake as to be beyond reasoned debate. The restaurant promised calls, and didn't make those calls. They should be calling each of those people to say there's no scheduled reopening date yet, and to reaffirm that rescheduling will be a priority once the restaurant is back up and running. To do anything less is bad customer relations, bad service, bad business, and just not particularly smart.

Media relations. When journalists say they would like to see press releases, sit up and take notice. It doesn't happen very often. But rest assured every food journalist in America with the slightest bit of interest in Per Se (in other words, every food journalist in America) would like to have more information than what has been clumsily doled out. Even just looking at eGullet, if Per Se's PR team would simply give periodic updates to journalists, including our NY News team, then our team (and the "Off the menu" column in the Times, and the similar products in New York Magazine et al.) could relay that information to a significant number of prospective Per Se customers. You know, the ones Per Se never called back. And I really don't think there's any evidence that Per Se would be ridiculed for providing update memos on occasion, especially since it's so hard to get anybody on the phone there. At eGullet we get dozens of press releases every week -- some of the big hotels and institutions send out press releases every time someone sneezes -- and I don't think we've ever made fun of anyone for sending too many. We appreciate being kept in the loop.

[rich]

Since I started this PR sub-thread, I think it's important to clarify once again.

First, I am not equating PR with the quality of the restaurant or the eventual popularity of the restaurant. I'm sure Per Se will be highly successful. To maintain that the PR problem has no bearing on whether one would eat there or not is not the point at all.

Per Se's advance notices were repleat with high expectations, high standards and a supreme emphasis on the individual diner. During its first week it met and even exceeded those goals. Since the unfortunate fire, their efforts have not met their own standards with respect to the customer and/or media. Public Relations and public perception can be a tricky thing.

Once a mindset has been established, it's hard to break. Per Se is in danger of creating a negative mindset - on the verge of causing people to laugh and joke about its eventual re-opening date. The last thing any high-end establishment wants is for its client base not to take it seriously - just ask Rocco.

Secondly, there have been incorrect statements about the motive of those who are making these PR/Customer Relations assertions. A number of posts indicated "we" had to be the first the try the place and were annoyed because we didn't get there in a timely fashion. This is simply not true. Steve and I have been the most vocal about the PR situation and both of us dined there during the first week.

This has nothing to do with reservations, Tom Keller, food quality or the generosity of management toward its staff. It's simply about effective customer relations and media/public relations in a town that "requires" it. Like it or not, accept it or not, that's just reality in New York.

[AES]

Fellow members --

First, I've been reading this thread intently since the Per Se fire and finally got my approval e-mail from egullet, so as my first post, I'd like to say thanks for keeping me in the loop. I had a March 28th reservation -- I wish this had been my review instead, but so be iit.

With respect to the PR/customer relations issue, I'd classify myself as mildly annoyed by the lack of information, but recognize this is not necessarily within Per Se's control. My call came in early March, with a statement that the reopening would be April 1 and rescheduling would be within 2 weeks. Well, no call so far, and the cancellations through mid-April show reopening won't be within the next few weeks.

While I don't think there needed to be an excessive amount of PR, one or two announcements, on the originally stated reopening dates, would have been appropriate. I'm left wondering when/if my reservation will be rescheduled.

One option -- why isn't there an update on the FL website? Last time I checked about 2 weeks ago, it just said "closed due to fire" in a slightly more articulate fashion. Why not just put a short update weekly on that site -- there's a section on Per Se and someone could easily update it as info changes.

As for my disappointment being a desire to be "first in line" or trendy, that's not even close. The 1.5 hr drive from central Connecticut is much more realistic for me than Yountville and I was very excited to finally be able to go to Keller's restaurant. It was not about the timing for me & my husband; it was all about Keller and Per Se. If it takes me a year to get another reservation, I'll still go and probably still have the same enthusiasm I have now.

But that doesn't mean I don't want some info to placate me while I wait to find out whether it will be next year by the time I get there.....

Last but not least, a close friend is an engineer interviewing to be the new on-call engineering firm at the Time Warner building. He's seen the plans and apparently post-fire, the wall was opened up and the comparison between the drawing and the wall was not even close..... As expected, the previous contractor & engineer have already been sued. He didn't know when the restaurant would be reopening.

[rich]

Last but not least, a close friend is an engineer interviewing to be the new on-call engineering firm at the Time Warner building. He's seen the plans and apparently post-fire, the wall was opened up and the comparison between the drawing and the wall was not even close..... As expected, the previous contractor & engineer have already been sued. He didn't know when the restaurant would be reopening.

And that's the making for a news release..."Due to unforeseen structural problems, the re-opening of Per Se will be delayed for an indefinite period. We will keep you informed on the status in a timely fashion, etc., etc..."

Simple, to the the point and everyone is happy. Life is good!

[SobaAddict70]

Welcome to eGullet, AES.

A simple follow-up statement made on a semi-periodic basis, even one to the effect such as "We are unable to accurately predict our opening date at this time, but will contact all who have made a reservation once we have more reliable information" would go a long way towards dispelling any negativism that may have accumulated to this point.

How much effort does putting out such a statement take? Not much, I bet, especially in the larger scheme of things. That the PR gods haven't....well, you can draw whatever set of conclusions you like from that.

Soba

[bilrus]

One option -- why isn't there an update on the FL website? Last time I checked about 2 weeks ago, it just said "closed due to fire" in a slightly more articulate fashion. Why not just put a short update weekly on that site -- there's a section on Per Se and someone could easily update it as info changes.

The French Laundry only launched a "modern' website sometime last year. But they could take advantage of it.

[robert40]

Maybe I am the minority but I feel as though Per Se has given me and the public all the information we need. The reservationist told me that when they had a positive reopening date, I would get another call to reschedule my reservation. I have no reason to believe that I cannot take that conversation at face value. When it comes to PR/Customer relations, it has already been printed at the beginning of the month that they will not be reopening in March. I don't need to see a small article in the New York Times every week stating ''Tommy says not this week folks.'' I most say that I do believe this whole situation may have been handled differently, if the first reports did not state that the closing will only be a couple of days. Then only to hear a few days later that it may be a week or two. I can't help believe that Thomas Keller went threw the roof with this information, and likely stated that no more information would be released, till we have a positive reopening date. It also states on their website that when they have a reopening date, it would be posted. I can't say that I needed to hear anything more, because to me it looks like Keller has know idea at this point when they will reopen.

Remember folks this was the restaurant that was near flawless only a few days after opening. This is a man that if he can't do it right, he won't do it at all.

As for this being a trendy restaurant, or having the desire to being the first to dine at Per Se, I wish to give you all a little personal information as I do not believe there is another person in this world, who was more heart broken by the cancellation of my reservation.

In January my cardiologist told me that he felt it was time for me to take the kids to Disney World. Which was a very polite of saying it's time to get your family affairs in order. The dreaded words knowone wants to hear from a doctor. If anyone noticed I rarely write long reports on eGullet. But only keep it to short humerous lines, which are likely not funny anyway Which is because I am usually to weak to sit at the PC and type. Just calling Per Se for the reservation was a four hour proccess, that took me off my feet for a day. My wife and I have been wishing to go to the French Laundry since it opened. We even had what we called a French Laundry bank, that all extra change would be tossed in. After January we came to the decision, that a cross country trip would no longer be possible. So Per Se was are next option. So as you see, this dinner meant more then being the first do dine at a trendy restaurant. It was more like are last big blow out dinner celebrating 20 years of marriage, and all the fine things that life has to offer us. So if anyone is looking forward to the reopening it is I, for if I get much weaker I likely won't be able to go anyway. Thank you and I sure hope this was not to damn depressing

R.R

[robyn]

Maybe I am the minority...

Guess we are a minority of two .

We shouldn't forget that the fire was only about a month ago.

This is the most recent article I could find about the situation. So late April is the anticipated opening date - but who can say for sure?

By the way - not to make light of your problem - but do you remember the old joke? A Catholic is told he's dying - and - asked for his last wish - he says - I want to see my priest. A Protestant is told the same thing - and - for his last wish - says I want to see my minister. A Jew is told the same thing - and - for his last wish - says - I want to see another doctor. Perhaps a second opinion in your case would be the same as the first opinion - but there's certainly no harm in getting one. And there are doctors doing certain things in certain parts of the country that most doctors elsewhere can't do - or can't do extremely well (and these doctors aren't necessarily in the biggest cities - Mayo in Minnesota and the Cleveland Clinic have a lot of superspecialists). E.g., we went to Mayo in Minnesota for a surgical consult for a heart valve problem my husband has. The surgeon we met is a valve repair specialist. According to the doctors we know (some of whom are cardiac surgeons) - this guy is only one of 3 in the US they'd trust if they needed a heart valve repair. Don't know what your problem is - but shop around for the biggest deal specialist you can find - and get that second opinion. Good luck. Robyn

P.S. The cardiology workup my husband had at Mayo before he even met the surgeon was very impressive. I was surprised that the cardiac surgeons at Mayo in Minnesota wouldn't even trust a cardiology workup at Mayo in Jacksonville before rendering an opinion - they wanted the cardiologists they worked with every day to do the workup.

Edited April 1, 2004 by robyn (log)

[robyn]

The basic point here doesn't involve any agendas or sweeping generalizations about New Yorkers, the people on this thread, or anyone else. What we are looking at here is a fundamental failure on the part of Per Se's management to communicate some very simple information to its clientele. Apparently, neither you nor your husband is bothered by that lack of information. Presumably, most people won't be. But a percentage of those who went to the trouble of getting reservations and planning around them -- regardless of whether the impetus for a reservation represented a deep character flaw or a simple desire to eat at the restaurant -- do seem to be bothered by it. And while it didn't bother me back in February, to me it's starting to get a bit irritating as April approaches. So I very much sympathize with the annoyed group.

I did a 5 second Google search tonight - and the current estimated date for re-opening is late April. As with all construction - this is only an estimate (building always takes twice as long and costs 30% more than originally anticipated). By the way - according to the NY Post article I referred to - other restaurants in the AOL Building are behind schedule too. Robyn

[robyn]

It's very easy to take one's own point of view and project it onto the world.  It's actually the most basic market research error... 

I don't go to restaurants because they have the best PR and the best market research. I go to restaurants that serve good, better, best food. Some of my most disappointing meals in recent years have been at places where apparently more is spent on PR than what's going on in the kitchen . As for my point of view - I've never been into cultural relativism .

I neglected to add something my husband mentioned last night. Why would Keller - with the French Laundry - even try to do this restaurant in New York? I doubt it was for the money (the costs at the FL have to be more controllable than those at Per Se). And - as for reputation - there are plenty of 3 star chefs in countries like France who never cooked anything in Paris. And New York is worse than Paris. Everyone gets angry or bored or upset so quickly. Just read that the mix at Mix will change totally very soon - and how long has it been open? So why did Keller do it? Robyn

[NeroW]

Why would Keller - with the French Laundry - even try to do this restaurant in New York?

To "push the envelope." Because that's what he does best.

[robyn]

Why does a restaurant have to issue a series of press releases to say that there's no news yet?

You realize we sound like a couple of old farts here .

This situation falls into the "Waiting for Godot" category. Reminds me of the day or two after 9/11 - when we kept calling to see when our airline would start flying again - to take us home. At a certain point - you realize that "no news" isn't "good news". And you just govern yourself accordingly (which in our case - and the case of thousands of other people - meant renting a car and driving home). Luckily - this situation is a lot less serious. You just make reservations at other restaurants. And when Per Se reopens - you make a reservation and dine there. Robyn

[Fat Guy]

Maybe Keller is waiting for the Times to install a real restaurant reviewer. Were I him, I wouldn't open on the interim watch.

[robert40]

Why would Keller - with the French Laundry - even try to do this restaurant in New York?

To "push the envelope." Because that's what he does best.

I so much agree with you!!

If this was a money making idea he could have put a 250 seat restaurant in New York and filled it every night. But it has nothing or very little to do with money as far as I am concerned. I even read some where that he even has the same car he had in the 1980's when he was at Rakel.

I mean come on. Did anyone see a Cooks Tour. When he was looking at the fava beans. And how about just a month ago, at the CBS morning show explaining the gnocchi? He had a gleam in his eye like it was his first born. It's all about the food with this guy.

[Fat Guy]

If this was a money making idea he could have put a 250 seat restaurant in New York and filled it every night.

That's called Bouchon and it's in Las Vegas!

[robert40]

Yes,Bouchon is the moneymaker as I've also read that Keller said himself he opened it [ them] for that reason.

[alanamoana]

Why would Keller - with the French Laundry - even try to do this restaurant in New York?

To "push the envelope." Because that's what he does best.

i am probably the least qualified person to be saying this, but which envelope would he be pushing? this is not to discount the food that thomas keller serves either at the french laundry or per se, but he's just doing high quality ingredients at a very high level of precision. he's not exactly pushing any envelopes. also, from all accounts of the menu at per se before the fire, the food is very similar to the french laundry. granted, all that may change once per se is re-opened and settled in to new york and jonathan benno can take the helm completely, right now it seems like you'll be eating pretty much the same food you can get in yountville.

to me, the envelope pushing is at places like el bulli, etc.

something fat guy said earlier (maybe someone else, can't remember) made sense too: what about all the employees who are unable to work right now? why aren't they making a call or two to the people who had reservations? you don't really need a press release to the general public (who aren't dining at per se), but information to paying customers is money in the bank. i do know that the jackhammers are still at work in the kitchen but that isn't stopping some of the kitchen staff from doing some work there.

[tan319]

Maybe Keller is waiting for the Times to install a real restaurant reviewer. Were I him, I wouldn't open on the interim watch.

[mjc]

to me, the envelope pushing is at places like el bulli, etc.

I've got to disagree with this. I think there are plenty of place that push the envelope, I would even say Keller.

What places like El Bulli do is more akin to pushing the whole post office.