Washington DC Area Grocery Stores

[mnebergall]

We now have about 5 pages documenting the undisputed fact that the grocery stores in DC suck. Have there been any posts that seek to offer reasons "WHY" they suck?

Could it be that the bar is set so low that none of the stores have any incentive to rise above the scum? Can the existing stores make a ton of money without having to compete with the other stores. Are the existing stores too far apart, making competition unncessary.

[eunny jang]

We now have about 5 pages documenting the undisputed fact that the grocery stores in DC suck.  Have there been any posts that seek to offer reasons "WHY" they suck?

Could it be that the bar is set so low that none of the stores have any incentive to rise above the scum?  Can the existing stores make a ton of money without having to compete with the other stores.  Are the existing stores too far apart, making competition unncessary.

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Judging by the traffic and content on this DC board, no one, apparantly, in DC cooks - we all eat out. The grocery stores just need to carry fancypants lavender mustard and duck sauce and bottled water. We should feel lucky that we can even buy milk once in a while.

[JPW]

We now have about 5 pages documenting the undisputed fact that the grocery stores in DC suck.  Have there been any posts that seek to offer reasons "WHY" they suck?

Could it be that the bar is set so low that none of the stores have any incentive to rise above the scum?  Can the existing stores make a ton of money without having to compete with the other stores.  Are the existing stores too far apart, making competition unncessary.

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Mark, reread.

There are several pieces of praise for specific stores. What is getting shredded is the average mainline chain, around DC mainly Safeway and Giant. And they are getting their lunch handed to them. All the recent market studies around the DC metro area show them losing share to Whole Paycheck and, in VA, Wegman's.

[morela]

Judging by the traffic and content on this DC board, no one, apparantly, in DC cooks - we all eat out.  The grocery stores just need to carry fancypants lavender mustard and duck sauce and bottled water.  We should feel lucky that we can even buy milk once in a while.

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I think a lot of people here cook at home, but many of those accounts end up in the general food or cooking forums...and the rest of these seeming non-homecookers do it for a living (and deserve to have stoves at home covered in cobwebs).

Unfortunately, it wouldn't be hard to find bottled water in DC that costs more than gasoline.

And Rob, in Brunswick, I'm sorry. That truly sucks; you were just trying to make yummy pancakes for some little guys. Those shitty health hazard stores should go to hell. I certainly hope you pay less rent than us.

Edited October 11, 2004 by morela (log)

[eunny jang]

I think a lot of people here cook at home, but many of those accounts end up in the general food or cooking forums...and the rest of these seeming non-homecookers do it for a living (and deserve to have stoves at home covered in cobwebs).

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Yah, I know...sometimes it just seems like this forum's nothing but Restaurants! Restaurants! Restaurants!!!!!!!

[JennyUptown]

Pity me. Since I sold my car about a week and a half ago, and haven't yet gotten the new one, I'm stuck with the crapola Giant at Connecticut and Veazey, or getting rides to Whole Paycheck from FauxVeg (fortunately she's not sick of chauffering me...yet). Yesterday I got fresh produce for the first time all week. I owe her big.

[Minister of Drink]

Pity me.  Since I sold my car about a week and a half ago, and haven't yet gotten the new one

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Wouldn't be a problem at the Arlington Fools store -- it would take you longer to park than do you shopping. At least Giants and Safeways always have that going for them!!!!

[rvanrens]

And Rob, in Brunswick, I'm sorry. That truly sucks; you were just trying to make yummy pancakes for some little guys. Those shitty health hazard stores should go to hell. I certainly hope you pay less rent than us.

Why do you think I live out here? I've got a two-bedroom house, 2 1/2 acres, etc etc for what half what I was paying for a microscopic one-bedroom apartment in Arlington for five years. And I was getting a deal most Ballston yuppies would have KILLED for without a second thought.

Of course, I also operate a largish pottery studio, and doing that inside the beltway is EXPENSIVE and the regulatory issues would make Ming the Merciless quail...out here in bucolic Fredneck county, it's a snap.

There are a couple of saving graces, like Hemp's Meats. It's a small butcher shop in Jefferson, MD...really first-rate meats, cut however you'd like them. You can also buy bulk, or have your own livestock custom-butchered. Their country-style bacon is to die for...

Seasonal produce is cheap, and readily availible, but nothing exotic, and the growing season is a little shorter (we ahd our first frost last night), so lots of stuff is a little later than in Virginny and points south.

Rob

[eunny jang]

Ongoing Whole Foods counterintelligence report:

Last night, the dairy section boasted(?) some cut-and-shrinkwrapped-in-store cheese marked with a sign as "GOAT LOGS". Geniuses, I tell you - shopper after shopper caught the sign in the corner of their eye and either made a disgusted look or started laughing. No one purchased a goat log of their very own.

[Al_Dente]

Ongoing Whole Foods counterintelligence report:

Last night, the dairy section boasted(?) some cut-and-shrinkwrapped-in-store cheese marked with a sign as "GOAT LOGS".  Geniuses, I tell you - shopper after shopper caught the sign in the corner of their eye and either made a disgusted look or started laughing.  No one purchased a goat log of their very own.

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Logs? I thought they were more like pellets.

[lperry]

OK, so I've moved to Alexandria (Kingstowne), and I'm not really thrilled with the grocery stores. I know you all are shocked by this revelation.

I did find a Super G "international" grocery that has nice produce, but what I really want is a good Middle Eastern market. You know, the ones that have the gallon jars of Kalamata olives for $10.00 . Any suggestions?

Thanks-

Linda

[razzar]

Welcome to the area.

Did a quick Google search and found these markets with a range of olive choices:

"Alexandria, Mediterranean Bakery, 352 S. Pickett St, 703 751 0030, 18 varieties

Arlington, The Italian Store, 3123 Lee Hwy, 703 528 6266, 8 varieties or more

Falls Church, Mount of Olives Market, 3405 Payne St, 703 379 1156, 6 varieties or more

Falls Church, Aphrodite, 5886 Leesburg Pike, 703 931 5055, 4 Greek varieties or more"

Can't really vouch for any of these, but they should be a start.

[The Hersch]

Falls Church, Aphrodite, 5886 Leesburg Pike, 703 931 5055, 4 Greek varieties or more"

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Aphrodite is a wonderful, strange little store. I don't think I've bought olives there, but I'm pretty sure they've got a range of choices. But be sure to buy some of their Egyptian feta. It's the best feta I've ever tasted, and it's very inexpensive. The shop is in the same little strip as Rabieng.

[lperry]

Cool! Thanks!

[morela]

They suck today because of...

THE PEOPLE

[MarketStEl]

Remember Coop, Grand Union, A&P (Super Fresh), and lots of others who couldn't make it in WDC region.

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Super Fresh pulled out of the DC market? When?

Interesting. I have a recollection of the then-chairman of A&P back in the early 1990s saying the company would not remain in markets where it was not one of the top three in market share.

In Philadelphia, where the Super Fresh division was born out of the ashes of the A&P Philadelphia region, the chain has never risen above #4 in market share, behind perennial leader Acme (Albertson's), Genuardi's (Safeway since 2001) and (variously) Pathmark/Giant (same corporate parent as the DC Giant but different HQ and operating philosophy)/Clemens Family Markets.

Points of some relevance for the DC board:

1. If Super Fresh no longer operates in the Washington region, then we have reciprocal failures. Giant (Landover) entered the Philadelphia market in 1999, operating as "Super G" to avoid confusion with not-yet-corporate-sister Giant (Carlisle, Pa.), which operated on an "everyday low prices" model.

The niche they were after was already firmly in the hands of the Genuardi family's chain (about which more below), and they had closed all their Pennsylvania stores within two years. I think there may still be some Super G's operating in South Jersey, where Genuardi's had no stores. (Genuardi's purchased Zagara's, a specialty grocer in Marlton, N.J., about a year before Safeway bought the chain.)

2. It appears that Safeway has a knack for not running stores well. (Which does not jibe with my memories of shopping there with my grandparents in Kansas City, where the chain still has stores, IIRC. The differences in quality and variety of merchandise between stores in black neighborhoods and those in white ones, however, does.) After Safeway purchased the family-owned Genuardi's chain in 2001, the company implemented a bunch of changes all at once, including replacing popular private labels with Safeway brands that the customers considered inferior. The quality of service--on which Genuardi's reputation was based--also slipped badly, and with it, the chain's market share. About the only thing they didn't change was the name on the stores--apparently Safeway learned from the bad reactions Philadelphians had to name changes on other well-regarded local institutions (Girard Bank, John Wanamaker...). That wasn't enough, though--Safeway had to run ads that featured employees apologizing outright for the deterioration in the summer of 2002.

"Giving our best"? Apparently not.

[MarketStEl]

I think a lot of people here cook at home, but many of those accounts end up in the general food or cooking forums...and the rest of these seeming non-homecookers do it for a living (and deserve to have stoves at home covered in cobwebs).

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Yah, I know...sometimes it just seems like this forum's nothing but Restaurants! Restaurants! Restaurants!!!!!!!

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The Pennsylvania board, where I usually hang out, is not that much different.

And I know that Philadelphians love to cook, given how we mob events like the annual The Book and the Cook festival and the recent Food Network Big Food Show.

Maybe it's because the cooks can talk cooking elsewhere on eGullet, but there aren't too many other places to talk about your favorite local restaurants?

(I also like talking about grocery shopping, which is why I parachuted into this discussion when I spotted it in "Today's Active Topics.")

(Addendum: Maybe there is a difference. I just looked at the topic list on the DC/DelMarVa board, and the only two pinned items were a digest of the Washington Post food section and a chat archive. Two of the pinned items on the Pennsylvania board discuss fresh produce--"Fair Food Farmstand" (in season) and "This Week at Market".)

Edited November 24, 2004 by MarketStEl (log)

[JPW]

Super Fresh is still alive and well in suburban DC. There is one in the city (way out in NW) and several in the MD burbs. I've stopped off at the one out in White Oak which just happens to be right near three stores I spend alot of time in - Target, Home Depot and BabiesRUs.

The one I've been in is a nice newish, big store with a nice selection. Nothing to go too far out of your way for, but pretty good.

[LBNoble]

Ok, someone is going to say that I am in the wrong (someone who is or has been a grocery checker), but Tuesday, I hit my store at 8:45 for asstd. stuff (this store has express lane only, 15 items or less, from 8-9). I tried to keep my item count low, but had 8 limes in a bag-cashier asks, 'how many?' 8 limes, I reply, she then procedes to ring each lime up separately, instead of hitting 8 quantity & tells me , 'Next time, try to keep it under 15 items'-WTF? not to mention the fact that she had 2 inch long fingernails, that looked very unhygienic...I tried not to let it bother me, but why would someone be so petty?

[Al_Dente]

I was too lazy to do my usual get-the-fancy-stuff-at-Whole-Paycheck and get-the-regular-stuff-at-Safeway last night, so I went to Whole Foods to pick up some things I needed for my contribution to Thanksgiving dinner. I'm making a mess of collard greens so I purchased $15 worth! At a regular grocery store, $15 would probably buy you about 40 pounds of the stuff-- at Whole Foods it got me about 4. Perhaps it's grown in zero gravity on the freakin space station.

Edited November 24, 2004 by Al_Dente (log)

[LBNoble]

Your collards sound like they will be wonderful (they should be, right?). I, on the other hand will be serving tonight (thanks to an egullet moment) Glory canned collards, w/ my 2 pork butts that are smoking as we speak (we are testing the new smoker, since we'll be doing turkey tomorrow)-I have rigged up a Rube Goldberg-umbrella thing over my smoker (in BIG letters on the instructions-do not put in the rain!)-also doing pickled shrimp, coleslaw, cornbread, & anything else anyone wants to look for in the frig (pickled shrimp & cornbread from Camille Glenn's Heritage of Southern Cooking, that's also where I get my poundcake recipe, this year, my MIL is bringing 2 of her own-I'm bowing out). I'm expecting 20+ people at my house tomorrow, I'm still calm, since I've parceled out all the side dishes I don't want to do-mashed potatoes, sweet potatoes, green bean casserole...(I'm still thinking about trying a pretzel roll recipe from the Rockenwagner cookbook tonight, since I don't have the time to hit the Swiss Bakery in Burke)...

[JPW]

I was too lazy to do my usual get-the-fancy-stuff-at-Whole-Paycheck and get-the-regular-stuff-at-Safeway last night, so I went to Whole Foods to pick up some things I needed for my contribution to Thanksgiving dinner. I'm making a mess of collard greens so I purchased $15 worth! At a regular grocery store, $15 would probably buy you about 40 pounds of the stuff-- at Whole Foods it got me about 4. Perhaps it's grown in zero gravity on the freakin space station.

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I always thought that of all their high prices the produce prices were the most egregious.

I've also noticed the two different types of cashiers when it comes to produce. There are the ones who look up absolutely every item (I mean come on I can't be the only person who has bought Japanese eggplant, conventionally-grown chicory, and Anaheim peppers today). They've only got 1000 produce codes to memorize. What gives? Then there are the ones who just punch whatever code they think it might be in and move to the next item. Even when you try to correct them they just look at you and snort. Not that I have a problem with paying $2.99 /pound for Shiitake mushrooms, but I feel like I have to make at least a token effort.

You do, however have to watch out the other way!

[Kanishka]

Am I the only one that fully relies on Eastern Market for grocery shopping? I pick up some things (yogurt, triscuits) elsewhere, but Eastern Market fulfills all of my other needs unless I'm doing something really special. Yes, I'm paying a bit more, and I'm a slave to whatever they have available--but not only have I never been disappointed by my take, its fun! I cook a ton, go to the Market every week, and I love it. Let the corporate grocery stores have someone else's market share.

One good grocer, IMHO, is Schneiders in Silver Spring. Yum!

K

[hjshorter]

Am I the only one that fully relies on Eastern Market for grocery shopping?

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Count me out, because we don't live anywhere near Eastern Market.

I made a trip to Sutton Pl...excuse me, Balducci's the day before Thanskgiving to pick up some goodies: olives, baguette, Crottin, French butter, etc. I was expecting crowds, but it all was painless. Apparently I was the only one buying ingredients instead of picking up my expensive catered Thanksgiving order. Their cheese selection is reduced somewhat but the cheese is still kept in much better condition compared to Whole Foods, and D&D.

[hillvalley]

Am I the only one that fully relies on Eastern Market for grocery shopping? I pick up some things (yogurt, triscuits) elsewhere, but Eastern Market fulfills all of my other needs unless I'm doing something really special. Yes, I'm paying a bit more, and I'm a slave to whatever they have available--but not only have I never been disappointed by my take, its fun! I cook a ton, go to the Market every week, and I love it. Let the corporate grocery stores have someone else's market share.

One good grocer, IMHO, is Schneiders in Silver Spring. Yum!

K

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Growing up I thought everyone went to Eastern Market to shop. Why buy meat and chicken that has been prewrapped? You mean your poultry guy doesn't know you by name?

Now I make it down there a few times a month. I cook for one so despite the higher prices I end up saving money because I can buy exactly what I need. The fish place can be hit or miss though. I would rather go down to the Maine Market. Same for the produce, although Mr. P next to the bakery has pretty good fresh herbs in the middle of winter.

BTW, anyone notice they changed the direction of the Market Lunch line? I was there a couple of weekends ago and got excited when there was not a line. then I walked in and saw they are now snaked out into the parking lot