Bloody chicken

[babyluck]

I'm sure most of us have experienced it, but I couldn't find a thread on it so I thought I'd share my newfound knowledge. You know, you cut into a piece of chicken that is clearly done and dark red blood starts to seep out from near the bone, making the meat appear underdone. I never really gave it much thought because I'm not squeamish and it is easy to tell by the firmness of the meat and the color & opacity of the blood that the meat itself is cooked and the blood is coming from somewhere else.

Last night, I made a lovely "poularde de Bresse" (see Dinner thread) with regular supermarket chicken leg quarters. It was heavenly. The chicken was a tiny bit overcooked if anything, not undercooked. At some point during the meal, Mr. Babyluck complained that his chicken was bloody. I took a look at it, gave the meat a squeeze, and pronounced it OK. I was so busy devouring my meal that I didn't think anything of it until after the plates were cleared. "Wasn't it good?" I asked. He said, "I don't like bloody chicken. But the sauce was really good!" "You didn't eat the chicken? It was totally fine!!" "You could have offered to switch with me." "But I told you it was fine! I thought you were going to eat it!"

And so on.

So I was finally prompted to research this phenomenon. Here's what I found. Essentially, because we are getting younger chickens, their bones are more porous and they seep blood. Apparently it is a big issue for food service because the meat needs to be terribly overcooked to get rid of it, but people won't eat it if it's bloody. Well, I guess I know one of those people.

Comments? Opinions?

[Jaybert41]

I couldn't access your link but I was once told that those blood spots occur from the birds being bruised while still alive. Presumably from other birds beaks in the cages. As far an opinion on the matter of eating or serving "bloody" chicken, I don't particularity enjoy eating it myself and it is impossible to try and serve such a piece of meat in a restaurant. It has happened to me too where I know the leg is cooked but there still that blood spot, and somebody always seems to question its doneness. I cannot say I blame them though.

[balmagowry]

I couldn't access your link but I was once told that those blood spots occur from the birds being bruised while still alive.  Presumably from other birds beaks in the cages.

But that is hardly the same thing as blood around the bone!

EDIT to add: BTW I had no trouble with the link.

Edited April 14, 2004 by balmagowry (log)

[woodburner]

It's been somewhat of a problem for quite some time.

Brining tends to eliminate the blood around the bone problem for me.

woodburner

edit to add: I refuse to eat it (bloody boned) even if I've cooked it and deem it done.

Also to add, chicken can be also easily cooked at much lower oven temperature's than normally prescribed, at longer times.

Paula Wolfert has described it a few times, possibly as LTLT. (?)

Edited April 15, 2004 by woodburner (log)

[Carlovski]

As far as I am aware, it is only really a problem with cheap battery chickens.

The poor diet and rapid growth means the bones are not properly calcified before they are slaughtered. Hend the redness at the bones - Quite oftern no amount of cooking can completely remove it.

It causes a bit of a double whammy, intensively reared tasteless chicken which gets overcooked to dryness.

[Marco_Polo]

Jeez, babyluck, this same goddam thing happened to me just last night. Earlier in the day my cycling mate Phil texted to say that he was bagging the usual Wed afternoon ride because his wife had cooked some dodgy chicken and he was up in the bog all night being sick.

I had previously taken some chicken out of the deep-freeze, thighs and legs, which I slashed to the bone, then marinaded Korean style (lots of garlic, ginger, spring onions, soy sauce, sesame oil, freshly ground black pepper). Made a big pot of rice (mixture shortgrain brown and white), cucumber salad, green salad: a usual mid-week meal that we all enjoy.

As usual, I cooked the chicken on the Viking stovetop grill on a medium-low setting. This is normally perfect, provided you turn the pieces regularly: the meat cooks through to the bone slowly, without burning on the outside; 40 minutes does the trick, no problem. But after 40 minutes, I checked a piece or two and there was definitely blood around the bone and drumstick knuckle. So I gave the chicken pieces another 20 minutes, still on low and bathed in marinade so as not to dry out. Took off four pieces, left the rest on the grill, and we began to eat. Every damn piece still had blood around the bone. Now if Phil hadn't cried off our usual Wednesday cycle with a dicky gut, I probably wouldn't have given it a second thought. Like the Monty Python parrot that was definitely deceased, I knew that damn chicken was well and truly cooked (if not quite cinderized). Well, we all dutifully put our pieces back on the grill and cooked for another ten minutes. Still bloody. Kids not happy, wife not happy, just pushed their pieces of chicken around on the plates, gnawed at the outside but left the rest. Me, I ate six pieces (I was ravenous after my Wed ride). And hey, I'm still here, no dicky stomach, no nothing.

So your post this morning demonstrating that blood around a chicken bone is not likely to prove fatal is somewhat reassuring. Problem is, chicken blood's just not that appetising, is it?

Now I can remember when we used to cook chinese style soya chicken by plunging the bird in a boiling soy and water mixture, bringing said fowl back to the boil, cover, then turn off the heat. Leave for a couple of hours, then chop into bite-size pieces with a cleaver. Dip in coarse salt and Sichuan pepper. Wonderful! The meat, though, was always pink and just underdone. But I never ever got sick. Perhaps I was just lucky? Or perhaps they just make chicken like they used to do.

Does anybody know at what precise point in time and history our chickens became infected with salmonella and thus ruined forever the pleasure of cooking and eating that delicious dish?!

MP

[lueid813]

I gotta say, those pics do look pretty disgusting. And I am a person who can eat a burger or steak as rare as any restaurant will cook 'em. I think it's a perception problem: on red meat it doesn't look bad, on white meat, ick!

[HungryChris]

I'm with woodburner on this one. I have found that brining the whole bird overnight has pretty much made this problem history. Even though I knew the chicken was cooked through, I would nuke the pieces in the mike, because I just couldn't eat chicken that looked bloody and I would never serve it to a guest.

[woodburner]

You might also try moving up to one of the free range/organic brands of chickens.

woodburner

[babyluck]

MP, I'm glad I could ease your mind. And glad to see that someone else has the pragmatism to happily devour bloody poultry flesh. Maybe it's easier for the person who cooked it to trust his/her own skills. True, I would not serve bloody chicken to a guest.

I do buy free range from time to time but I'm too frugal to do it all the time. The selection can be scant, too--when I'm looking for leg quarters, I have to buy what the store has.

Seems like a pretty nasty trick from the poultry producers. So they have continually pushed for greater efficiency, to get the product from egg to store faster, and they have created a product that is unacceptable to their customers. Why not just ease off and fatten up the chicks a little more slowly?

The sad thing is, from now on I'll be a little reassured if my factory farm chicken is bloody--that way, at least I'll know it's not pumped with pathogens!

Thanks for the brining suggestion, too--I'm not really organized enough to plan ahead that much, but I'll try.

[mongo_jones]

me, i like the blood--especially cracking the bone and sucking it out with the marrow.

[markf424]

No blood for this guy. I have the same problem from time to time. I haven't made the brining connection yet, but I'll pay more attention and see if that has, er, cured the problem.

[Arey]

If somebody has a poor appetite to start with there's nothing like bloody chicken to guarantee they won't eat. For the last ten years of her life my mother lived with me. She was an octogenarian with a bad heart and severe arthritis, and she was barely eating enough to stay alive. I frequently cooked chicken thighs for our dinner, (400 degree oven and 25 to thirty minutes on each side)and at the first sight of a bloody bone, there went her appetite. Of course, a single bone in her filet of flounder also wiped out her appetite, and even putting too much on her plate wiped out her appetite. Fortunately she did like my home made soup and even paid me the ultimate compliment by telling me that it was "almost as good as what comes out of a can".

[woodburner]

me, i like the blood--especially cracking the bone and sucking it out with the marrow.

I'm sure you do.

Getting to the bone is more good eats:

Commercial Chickens Spend Their Lives in Excrement

The chickens one buys at the supermarket lived and breathed, day in, day out, in excrement-- abnormal excrement at that. Because of their terrible diet, their wastes "contain more protein, organic matter, nitrogen, phosphorous, and other material known to cause pollution problems than do the wastes of animals on normal diets."46 In addition to the solid excrement on the floor, the birds are forced to breathe excretory ammonia fumes throughout their growing lives. These poisoned gases permeate the air, rising from the decomposing uric acid in the accumulated droppings in the chicken houses. They penetrate egg shells. They enter the birds' airways and immune system, inviting salmonella and other pathogens to colonize and spread.47 The droppings themselves contain pathogens, medication residues, cysts and larvae, and metals such as copper, arsenic, and zinc.48

Chicken Lickin

woodburner

[Toliver]

Commercial Chickens Spend Their Lives in Excrement

The chickens one buys at the supermarket lived and breathed, day in, day out, in excrement-- abnormal excrement at that. Because of their terrible diet, their wastes "contain more protein, organic matter, nitrogen, phosphorous, and other material known to cause pollution problems than do the wastes of animals on normal diets."46 In addition to the solid excrement on the floor, the birds are forced to breathe excretory ammonia fumes throughout their growing lives. These poisoned gases permeate the air, rising from the decomposing uric acid in the accumulated droppings in the chicken houses. They penetrate egg shells. They enter the birds' airways and immune system, inviting salmonella and other pathogens to colonize and spread.47 The droppings themselves contain pathogens, medication residues, cysts and larvae, and metals such as copper, arsenic, and zinc.

So that's the Colonel's secret.

[docsconz]

me, i like the blood--especially cracking the bone and sucking it out with the marrow.

I'm sure you do.

Getting to the bone is more good eats:

Commercial Chickens Spend Their Lives in Excrement

The chickens one buys at the supermarket lived and breathed, day in, day out, in excrement-- abnormal excrement at that. Because of their terrible diet, their wastes "contain more protein, organic matter, nitrogen, phosphorous, and other material known to cause pollution problems than do the wastes of animals on normal diets."46 In addition to the solid excrement on the floor, the birds are forced to breathe excretory ammonia fumes throughout their growing lives. These poisoned gases permeate the air, rising from the decomposing uric acid in the accumulated droppings in the chicken houses. They penetrate egg shells. They enter the birds' airways and immune system, inviting salmonella and other pathogens to colonize and spread.47 The droppings themselves contain pathogens, medication residues, cysts and larvae, and metals such as copper, arsenic, and zinc.48

Chicken Lickin

woodburner

Good post, WB. This is why I would rather spend a little more for a local FR chicken. I rarely buy supermarket chicken anymore, although I cannot say that I completely avoid eating it. I do this for reasons in addition to the health risk issue, though. Primarily, I prefer to support local family farms if at all possible. I understand that i am quite fortunate that I can do it both gepgraphically and financially and that not everyone can afford to be so choosy. However, I feel that by supporting traditional, local and artisanal producers, it makes it more likely that they will not only survive, but maybe even become succesful enough to be able to gain a wider market collecctively if not individually.

[woodburner]

Righto Doc,

People wonder why most food markets sell shit, is because most of us buy shit. (Including myself in this statement, so that no one feel's I'm being deragatoury)

It's all about money, not from a buying standpoint alone, but from the producers end as well. Pump out those little chickies as fast as you can.

Who cares if they see a little blood, it's cheap and easy.

woodburner

[markf424]

..I'm with Doc on this one as well. I realize that it's a financial hurdle some can't overcome, but I think many of us will take the easy way out (supermarket chicken) just because it's readily available. We don't want to have to go to two or three stores to complete our food shopping because overall we're lazy or out of time or can't afford it.

I have made a personal commitment to strive to support more locally harvested agriculture and even local businesses whenever possible. The few cents I save by going with a large chain moves money away from my region, and in the case of foodstuffs, away from local farmers trying to do what I consider to be the right thing. I, like doc, am fortunate enough to be in a position where I can do this currently. I don't judge anyone for the choices they make, just mentioning my personal feelings on the subject. And hey, if it means I'm putting a better product into my body, all the better.

[docsconz]

While I try to support my local artisanal producers a much as possible, I must admit I am not averse to supporting producers from elsewherre, especially if there is not equivalent product in my area.

[arjay]

me, i like the blood--especially cracking the bone and sucking it out with the marrow.

As I've said before, some folks will eat anything that doesen't crawl off their plates and escape into the nearest fetid swamp.

Edited April 16, 2004 by arjay (log)

[lorea]

Err....so where does salmonella live in the chicken, anyways (if it's present)?

[arjay]

Have you guys ever investigated "free range" poultry? If so, you would know that these creatures are housed in the same quarters as all the other chicks, with shit, ammonia and the same feed. They are provided with a small opening to get outside to walk in a small fenced runway, which they seldom take advantage of. They don't eat off the fat of the land and get harvested in a big chicken roundup. This is what you pay your premium prices for.

[mongo_jones]

me, i like the blood--especially cracking the bone and sucking it out with the marrow.

As I've said before, some folks will eat anything that doesen't crawl off their plates and escape into the nearest fetid swamp.

does the swamp have to be fetid?

[arjay]

me, i like the blood--especially cracking the bone and sucking it out with the marrow.

As I've said before, some folks will eat anything that doesen't crawl off their plates and escape into the nearest fetid swamp.

does the swamp have to be fetid?

In your case, I would think the the more fetid, the better.

[docsconz]

Have you guys ever investigated "free range" poultry? If so, you would know that these creatures are housed in the same quarters as all the other chicks, with shit, ammonia and the same feed. They are provided with a small opening to get outside to walk in a small fenced runway, which they seldom take advantage of. They don't eat off the fat of the land and get harvested in a big chicken roundup. This is what you pay your premium prices for.

Which "free range" are you talking about? The "free range" I know of locally are truly that and while chickens will never be the most sanitary creature, these are healthy birds living in an environment that is reasonably healthy for them not requiring prophylactic antibiotics. Of course, that is not to say that all birds labelled "free range" in the supermarket meet that degree of "free". This is another reason I prefer to buy locally or from known entities.