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elizabethnathan

Pâte de Fruits (Fruit Paste/Fruit Jellies) (Part 1)

493 posts in this topic

I made pate de fruit and i thought it was too sweet can i lessen the sugar by a 100g and come up with the same result, like will it still be firm enough to cut....should i do something like increase the pectin?

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why not try a recipe from one of the puree companies. they are all carefully balanced


nkaplan@delposto.com

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why not try a recipe from one of the puree companies. they are all carefully balanced

Generally speaking, you can use glucose to lower the sweetness level in the pates, but balance is crucial. - you can't really do a 1:1 substitution.

But Nicole is right. Boiron publishes a sheet with formulas for their purees. Though we make our own purees here, we've had great success with the Boiron recipes (slightly tweaked - we use a refractometer to check the sugar level of the fruit, then adjust that to bring it up to the values shown on the Boiron sheet). You might be able to find the Boiron formula sheet on their website.

A refractometer is not absolutely necessary (though immensely helpful if you plan to do a lot of pates). Without one, knowing when your mass has cooked long enough becomes much more of an art than a science. Still, you should be able to achieve good results. Just keep stirring the mixture all the time and keep a close eye on its viscosity. It's easy to overcook and find your pate de fruit setting up as you try to pour it into your pan.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Cheers,


Steve Smith

Glacier Country

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I made pate de fruit and i thought it was too sweet can i lessen the sugar by a 100g and come up with the same result, like will it still be firm enough to cut....should i do something like increase the pectin?

I echo the previous posts, Boiron has a good recipe. I did get a great reaction when I added citric acid to the recipe once when I was out of tartaric acid, it made the pate de fruit more tart. Not sure if it is what you want to do but it certainly got a positive reaction with the Passion Fruit and Morello Cherry.

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I think this is the link to Boiron's Pates de fruits recettes:

Boiron Pates de fruits Recipes


John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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thanks for all the helpful info. Yes, i do have the Boiron pate de fruit guide sheet, since i only Boiron for my jellies. However, i do find the calculations inaccurate, the strawberry recipe, i made 3x and it did not se. First time i got, jam, second, i got a thicker jam and third try i got a jelly i could barely cut. I increased pectin, varied cooking time and still got nothing. I do not have a refractometer, so Yes i have to watch it carefully, after 20 tries on 3 fruit purees, the blackberry, strawberry and cassis, I have learned a lot. My findings were that the blackberry is the only one that i can get to set nicely, firm enough to cut but still soft and chewy. I know that strawberry is lower in pectin but increasing the pectin and tartaric acid does not seem to help. I am a bit stuck..........i would like to have more flavours than just my blackberry.

this is the recipe i used:

pate de fruit blackberry

500g puree, i like Boiron blackberry and 50 g sugar

- boil then add 20 g pectin

- Boil 3 min

- add sugar 480 g

- Boil 2min

- Add glucose 100 g

Boil 106 F

add 10ml citric acid, pour into mold.

this recipe i made seems to only be good with the blackberry....help me.....

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What kind of pectin are you using? This can make all the difference in the world.

I used to get bags of pectin from my supplier. It worked very well - our pates always set. Going to a new bag of what we thought was the same stuff, we couldn't get any batches to set. Talk about frustration! The supplier told me it was exactly the same stuff, but there was no way that was true. So we spent about two months (and 30-some batches) searching for something else that would work.

Finally, we discovered the 100% Pure Apple Pectin from Pastry1 (Paris Gourmet). It worked like a charm and we've been using it ever since. It's proved to be very reliable and very consistent. We get ours from Provvista in Portland, Oregon, but other suppliers are bound to have it.

I've heard good things about the Louis Francoise line of pectins. But they have at least eight separate kinds and we just don't have the time to experiment. They are less widely available, but try Great Ciao in Minneapolis.

Likek Truffle Guy, we also use citric acid now, rather than tartaric acid. For one thing, it's a lot cheaper.

Good luck!

Cheers,


Steve Smith

Glacier Country

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pate de fruit blackberry

500g puree, i like Boiron blackberry and 50 g sugar

- boil then add 20 g pectin

- Boil 3 min

- add sugar 480 g

- Boil 2min

- Add glucose 100 g

Boil 106 F

add 10ml citric acid, pour into mold.

I was just looking at your recipe and noted a possible anomaly. You say you boil the puree and sugar, then add the pectin. If you're not mixing sugar with your pectin that could be part of your problem - pectin on its own will clump in liquid and that may reduce it's effectiveness. Also, it looks to me like you may not be cooking long enough.

Try this recipe:

Blackberry Puree 500g

Sugar + Pectin 50g + 13g (thoroughly mixed dry)

Sugar 500g

Glucose 100g

Citric Acid 15 grams

Cook the puree until it reaches about 100F.

Add the sugar+pectin mixture and cook until the temp reaches about 190F.

Add the sugar in 2-3 batches, trying not to let the temp drop below 175F.

When the sugar is well incorporated, and the temp is back up to about 190F, add the glucose.

Now bring to a boil and let the temp rise to about 215-217F.

Cook at this temp until the mixture is very thick, but still pourable.

Turn off the heat and quickly add the citric acid.

Pour into molds.

At every stage you must stir, stir, stir.

Let me know how this works out.

Cheers,


Steve Smith

Glacier Country

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I couldn't be happier that this topic has started. This year as part of the holiday goodies tray we decided to make pate de fruit. I had returned from Alsace last year and had some gorgeous pate de fruit...so when I saw a recipe in Bon Appetit I thought perfect.

Sadly, not so perfect. The ingredient list was clear but the method was not. We used frozen fruit (thimbleberry, blackberry and strawbs) from home gardens and ended up tripling the liquid pectin called for.

About a week after we made the pate we noticed that some had started to weep and what remained were almost rubbery in texture. My thought was that because of all the extra pectin we had this result.

In retrospect, should we have followed the recipe and waited for the pate to mature or ripen for a week in the freezer?

Any other thoughts, feedback or tips would be welcome.


Life! what's life!? Just natures way of keeping meat fresh - Dr. who

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Weeping is a common problem with pates. It usually happens when the fruit isn't cooked enough or if the recipe is unbalanced. It's possible that tripling the liquid pectin threw the formula out of whack.

Weeping also occurs if you refrigerate the pates. The chill breaks down the sugar structure and the pieces will literally turn to liquid over a period of a few days. So, do not refrigerate or freeze them. Just let them sit, covered, at room temp.

Pate de Fruit does not mature or ripen, it will just start to get dried out. The mixture should set within 10-30 minutes of being poured. It will get firmer within the first 24 hours. So wait until the day after you make it to cut them. Over the next 4-8 weeks the pieces will degrade somewhat by drying up. Eventually, they'll get moldy. We suggest to buyers of our pates that they consume them within a week or so.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,


Steve Smith

Glacier Country

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pate de fruit blackberry

500g puree, i like Boiron blackberry and 50 g sugar

- boil then add 20 g pectin

- Boil 3 min

- add sugar 480 g

- Boil 2min

- Add glucose 100 g

Boil 106 F

add 10ml citric acid, pour into mold.

I was just looking at your recipe and noted a possible anomaly. You say you boil the puree and sugar, then add the pectin. If you're not mixing sugar with your pectin that could be part of your problem - pectin on its own will clump in liquid and that may reduce it's effectiveness. Also, it looks to me like you may not be cooking long enough.

Try this recipe:

Blackberry Puree 500g

Sugar + Pectin 50g + 13g (thoroughly mixed dry)

Sugar 500g

Glucose 100g

Citric Acid 15 grams

Cook the puree until it reaches about 100F.

Add the sugar+pectin mixture and cook until the temp reaches about 190F.

Add the sugar in 2-3 batches, trying not to let the temp drop below 175F.

When the sugar is well incorporated, and the temp is back up to about 190F, add the glucose.

Now bring to a boil and let the temp rise to about 215-217F.

Cook at this temp until the mixture is very thick, but still pourable.

Turn off the heat and quickly add the citric acid.

Pour into molds.

At every stage you must stir, stir, stir.

Let me know how this works out.

Cheers,

stscam has a good point about the pectin. Even mixed with the sugar I have to watch for clumping. I actually started using an immersion blender when adding and it seems to have really helped. After the pectin is blended, I use a whisk or wooden spoon. Also, when I first started I could never get the pate to set. I was not cooking it long enough, it isn't just the temperature....don't cook it on too high a temp but let it come up to temp over time. I've had no problems at all since I started taking longer and cooking until it looks right....you should see the pate forming small dollops on your whisk. I use a powdered apple pectin and it has never failed me....liquid just never worked well for me.

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Truffle Guy also makes a good point I didn't touch upon - the heat setting on the range. On a commercial range the best setting seems to be just about medium. If you cook too hot you're liable to burn the fruit. Take time, and as I said, stir all the time.

And you will be able to see the change on your spoon - the mixture will start to get more gelified and cling to the spoon, rather than just dripping off.

T.G. - how big are the batches of pates you make? 1/2 sheet? Full sheet? Have you ever tried pouring into molds, or does your fruit set too quickly?

Cheers,

Steve


Steve Smith

Glacier Country

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Truffle Guy also makes a good point I didn't touch upon - the heat setting on the range. On a commercial range the best setting seems to be just about medium. If you cook too hot you're liable to burn the fruit. Take time, and as I said, stir all the time.

And you will be able to see the change on your spoon - the mixture will start to get more gelified and cling to the spoon, rather than just dripping off.

T.G. - how big are the batches of pates you make?  1/2 sheet? Full sheet? Have you ever tried pouring into molds, or does your fruit set too quickly?

Cheers,

Steve

Typically it is about a half sheet. I have a couple large marble boards and I use confectionary bars to get the right height. Sometimes I do very thin pates which I then top with a ganache and enrobe, other times it is the thicker more traditional type of pate cut and rolled in sugar. Never used molds but thinking about it, not sure though as the more I see the cut pates the more I like them. S

Some of my pates set very quickly (Passion Fruit, Mango) while others seem to take longer (Morello Cherry, Blackberry) so the mold would work better with the types that take longer. I do typically add a little extra pectin just to make sure the fruit sets though which may be the reason it sets quickly. Also, I cook for a long time until the fruit has thickened and lost volume with the evaporation.

One thing I'm toying with is a layers of different fruits (strawberry and banana) for example...has anyone done that and was it difficult? The other thing is maybe doing a layer of pate with a thin layer of marshmallow and then ganache and enrobing it. Maybe too much going on but I've done Passion Fruit marshmallows and they had a great taste (You probably can tell now I like Passion Fruit).

I can't stress enough having the right ingredients to start. Powdered Apple Pectin really helped and also using quality purees. I've tried using fresh/canned fruits and it just doesn't get the same results. If you cook it long enough, it should thicken...if not just add a little more sugar/pectin mix. If it is too sweet from the sugar...try the citric acid to give it some zing.

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The layer idea sounds neat. I'm thinking you'd need to pour one flavor, give it just a few minutes to start to cool and set, then pour the second right on top. They should then stick together like glue.

We make our batches on half sheet pans with a silpat and a pan extender (to give us straight sides). The size is perfect, as you know, for a kilo batch of puree.

We've had great success making our own purees. And because we don't pre-Pasteurize the fruit, there's tons more flavor. Up here in NW Montana the local summer fruit is just amazing. Our pate flavors are so pure you can taste the difference between an early season raspberry and a late season one. Other local fruit includes sweet and sour cherries, blueberries, chokecherries, red and black currants, gooseberries, and, of course, huckleberries (always wild - there is no way currently to cultivate hucks).

One thing that seems to make a difference is adding sugar to the pureed fruit to bring the level up to the ranges shown for Boiron purees. This gives us more consistency and more control over the final product. Typically we don't have to add more than about 10% sugar to the fruit to get it to the set point.

We then put a kilo of puree into an H pan lined with freezer paper, cover it with plastic wrap and work out all the air bubbles. We pop it into the freezer and once frozen, we remove the block of fruit from the pan, stick it in a bag and vacuum it. Our final product is a one kilo brick of long-life fruit, ready to defrost and go into the pate bowl without any further prep.

Thanks for sharing.

Cheers,

Steve


Steve Smith

Glacier Country

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gee thanks.. a lot i am back at work tom and i will try the recommendations.

yes i do use apple pectin, liquid pectin wil just waste your time and hack your brain wondering what went wrong.

I forgot to say that i do add a little sugar to the pectin because it obviously clumps. I do use a medium heat.....i will let u know..what i get

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Does anyone have a recipe or advice on tracking down the elusive delicious fruit jelly?

I don't mean jelly in the jam sense . . .

The best ones I ever had were bought in Venice -- shaped like the fruit they tasted like, about the size of a small plum, covered with a very fine coating of very fine sugar, so that they appeared . . . frosted. Beautiful transparent colors. And subtle flavors, nothing easily identified.

I've searched the Internet for already made ones and came up with this --

http://www.payard.com/prodslist10.php

Not a candy many people go for, I suppose, but I love them.


I like to bake nice things. And then I eat them. Then I can bake some more.

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Did you mean this?

Payard Pates de fruits

You can order this online and they'll deliver anywhere in the US.

This thread on Pates de fruits may be interesting (I'm sure there are others as well): Pates de fruits


John DePaula
formerly of DePaula Confections
Hand-crafted artisanal chocolates & gourmet confections - …Because Pleasure Matters…
--------------------
When asked “What are the secrets of good cooking? Escoffier replied, “There are three: butter, butter and butter.”

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Thank you, John, the thread is very interesting. Your link to Payard doesn't work for me, but I'm sure it's the same thing -- I might go there this weekend and get some; just talking about them has made me hungry for them.

The "tablet" form, though, is nothing like the delightful miniature fruit shapes found in Venice, but I suppose this is the tantilization that gives us hope -- just knowing that the idea exists, we can strive for it.

Speaking of which, your chocolates are exquisite.


I like to bake nice things. And then I eat them. Then I can bake some more.

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Lindacakes, you can get the fruit shaped molds from Chef Rubber

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Are you looking to buy them or make them? I have a recipe but I haven't found the money for a flexpan for making the flower shaped ones. They've been on my long to do list.


Pamela Wilkinson

www.portlandfood.org

Life is a rush into the unknown. You can duck down and hope nothing hits you, or you can stand tall, show it your teeth and say "Dish it up, Baby, and don't skimp on the jalapeños."

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Ah, Chef Rubber, well, that gives a person ideas, all sorts of ideas.

I was thinking make, but truly, I'd prefer to buy.

But I get these ideas in my head, of how it could be. I was disappointed to go to the chocolate show. In my mind, there were fountains of chocolate burbling away, and everything a deep mysterious dark brown, and Sophia Loren-like women with mesmeric cleavage would offer you trays of the most delicate and exquisite chocolates.

And, of course, it wasn't like that at all.

Flower shaped fruit jellies would be beautiful.


I like to bake nice things. And then I eat them. Then I can bake some more.

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Forgive my odd style of typing up a recipe, but you should be able to follow it. I believe this makes about 240, 1 square inch jellies.

Strawberry Jellies

1. 6 quart strained strawberry puree

2. 13 ounces strained apple juice

3. 1 cup glucose

4. 7 ½ cups sugar

5. ¾ cups sugar

6. 5 tablespoons pectin powder

7. 1 cups sugar

8. 1 teaspoon citric acid

Combine ingredients 1, 2, 3, 4 and bring to a boil.

Combine ingredients 5 and 6 in a bowl and temper with some of the hot liquid. Whisk the tempered pectin mixture into the remaining puree. Boil for 1 minute.

Take 2 half-sheet pans and pour hot puree onto the pans and let cool. Cut the hardened jellies into 1 square inch pieces. Roll the jellies in a mixture of ingredients 7 and 8.


WhizWit.net -- My blog on Food, Life, and Politics

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Demarle has a cute flower mold and the recipe is in their book for the perfect amount to fill their pan. It's the one I keep going back to as the one on the top of my wish list. It might be fun to make custom molds for it too.

Pamela Wilkinson

www.portlandfood.org

Life is a rush into the unknown. You can duck down and hope nothing hits you, or you can stand tall, show it your teeth and say "Dish it up, Baby, and don't skimp on the jalapeños."

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Hello all! I've been a long time reader of the forums but this is the first time I've ever posted. I'd like to take a moment before I get into my question to say thank you to everyone who participates in this forum. Your willingness to share your experiences is greatly appreciated. I only hope that some day I wil be able to offer the same wisdom and energy I've gleamed from reading these pages. Thank you again. Now to the question:

I'm working with a pate de fruit recipe from the Jean Pierre Wybauw book and it states in the instructions to cook to 225 F. I cooked and cooked but never got above 205 F. Although, in other recipes I have read, it says to cook till "stringy" or "pearls on a whisk" which I definately went past. I also kept stirring the puree (is this right?) for fear of scorching and I am afraid that I did not achieve that Pate de fruit consistency I so love. The jelly set fine, despite the lower cooking temperature and the fact I forgot to add the citric acid solution at the end. I'm assuming the mango puree contained enough acid to set the pectin. I'm using a pate de fruit pectin I purchased form chef rubber and I used 25 g for 1 k of puree and 1100 g of sugar with 200 g of corn syrup.

Another consideration is my higher altitude (Eugene, OR). I'm unsure of the exact calculations for altitude temperature conversions.

Any help is appreciated.

Shane Tracey

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