Q&A: Stuffed Pastas

[JosephB]

As the pasta gets longer, first of all, where do you put it? I drape it along the length of my left forearm, sometimes folding it over by the elbow (it won't stick if it's well floured). The end you feed into the rollers with your left hand.

This sounds unwieldy to me, and may justify the case people have been making to me to buy the KA attachment, which frees up both hands. On the Altas, when I get to 6 I simply cut the dough in half and do each piece on 7. Voila!

[slkinsey]

I have a few impressions:

1. There is no reason to always go to the thinnest setting on the pasta machine every time. I reserve this setting for only the most delicate stuffed pasta dishes and lightly sauced narrower cuts of strand pasta. For tagliatelle, papardelle, lasagna, etc. I wouldn't go anywhere near that thin.

2. If the pasta is so damp that it's sticking together whenever it touches itself, if nests of pasta are turning into blobs of dough despite a healthy dusting of flour, if they need to dry before they can be be run through the cutter or, better yet, rolled up and cut by hand... then the dough is too wet. Pasta dough can absorb a lot more flour than you think, and what seems very dry when you first start kneading can actually turn out to be quite moist after the dough is worked for a few minutes.

[MobyP]

What I was trying to stress was that you can vary the texture of the dough, and the moisture content, depending the nature the finished product. For papardelle or taglietelle, you want a thicker final dough with a lower moisture. For stufed pastas, a more fragile, thinner dough, with a slightly higher moisture to prevent it drying out before you seal it.

And yes, if I'm dealing a large piece, I'll also cut it in two before running it through the thinnest setting.

[MobyP]

2. If the pasta is so damp that it's sticking together whenever it touches itself, if nests of pasta are turning into blobs of dough despite a healthy dusting of flour, if they need to dry before they can be be run through the cutter or, better yet, rolled up and cut by hand... then the dough is too wet. Pasta dough can absorb a lot more flour than you think, and what seems very dry when you first start kneading can actually turn out to be quite moist after the dough is worked for a few minutes.

Exactly. The dough can seem pretty dry before you rest it, but 2 hours later it can be sticky again. Just work in more flour and you'll be fine.

[Abra]

Wow, Moby, this is a beautiful course! I didn't get to make pasta this weekend, but I did look at the bag of Perfect Pasta flour I have from King Arthur, which lists flour, durum flour, and semolina flour as ingredients. Has anybody in the U.S used this, and how do you think it compares to just using AP flour?

That grating of chocolate sounds irresistable - I might have to make half arugula and half squash with chocolate when I find some ravioli-eaters to help me out.

Hey, sequim, we roast our own coffee pretty regularly - it's not only for geeks anymore!

[sequim]

That grating of chocolate sounds irresistable - I might have to make half arugula and half squash with chocolate when I find some ravioli-eaters to help me out.

Hey, sequim, we roast our own coffee pretty regularly - it's not only for geeks anymore!

"ravioli-eaters to help" you out? I know someone....

Yikes, is roasted coffee going to be next, espresso machines, foamed milk...where does it all end?

Actually this weekend I got out my well worn Sunset Italian cookbook and found a recipe for spinach pasta that uses homemade mascarpone for its sauce. So I decided to make the mascarpone, putting the ingredients together on Saturday, and after waiting and waiting for it to thicken, I got up this morning and got it out of the oven and lo and behold it had finally curdled! I think it just hadn't been warm enough. So tonight will be spinach pasta with the mascarpone sauce. I'm going to use a higher proportion of semolina than I did before, in order to try and get more texture and flavor in the noodles.

It's funny how one thing leads to another. The making of pasta leading to the making of mascarpone - and this would naturally lead to the making of ricotta for which I have a recipe as well.

[MobyP]

Thanks Abra.

Personally I wouldn't use the King Arthur for the same reason I wouldn't use "Corn Bread Mix" or "Pancake Mix." I prefer to have more control over the elements in my cooking - but others may have had good experiences with it. Also, I thought Durum and Semolina were synonymous (I could be wrong).

What city are you in? If you can't find Tipo '00' anywhere, then I'd go with AP, and if you can't find semolina for dusting, then maybe you use that King Arthur stuff?

Maybe we should set up a service - people tell us what city they're in, and we all google it like mad, finding a place where they can find '00'?

[MobyP]

Actually this weekend I got out my well worn Sunset Italian cookbook and found a recipe for spinach pasta that uses homemade mascarpone for its sauce. So I decided to make the mascarpone, putting the ingredients together on Saturday, and after waiting and waiting for it to thicken, I got up this morning and got it out of the oven and lo and behold it had finally curdled! I think it just hadn't been warm enough. So tonight will be spinach pasta with the mascarpone sauce. I'm going to use a higher proportion of semolina than I did before, in order to try and get more texture and flavor in the noodles.

It's funny how one thing leads to another. The making of pasta leading to the making of mascarpone - and this would naturally lead to the making of ricotta for which I have a recipe as well.

I did exactly the same thing! Within a year I was making my own ricotta, using a Batali recipe.

You know, I went through a 'trying to get more texture' phase with my pasta making, and it took me a while to realise that I was cooking it too long. As fresh pasta, it needs much less time - when I realised that, my pastas and raviolis had much more texture and bite to them.

If you knead the pasta sufficiently, it should have a good bite.

Could you pm me the mascarpone sauce recipe? I'd love to see it. Making spinach pasta is a blast - remember to either really squeeze it dry before you put it into the food processor, or chop it finely, or cut down on the eggs or oil.

[sequim]

I did exactly the same thing! Within a year I was making my own ricotta, using a Batali recipe.

You know, I went through a 'trying to get more texture' phase with my pasta making, and it took me a while to realise that I was cooking it too long. As fresh pasta, it needs much less time - when I realised that, my pastas and raviolis had much more texture and bite to them.

If you knead the pasta sufficiently, it should have a good bite.

Could you pm me the mascarpone sauce recipe? I'd love to see it. Making spinach pasta is a blast - remember to either really squeeze it dry before you put it into the food processor, or chop it finely, or cut down on the eggs or oil.

Actually here in Seattle, we have Mario B's own father's restaurant to go to and the other day some of us eGulleters went to a lunch there and at the end he brought out a huge bowl of homemade ricotta that we put on the slices of bread with some chestnut honey. Oh heaven! So when I came upon the two recipes for mascarpone and ricotta in my book and saw how easy they were, I have to try them. If you are able to share the ricotta recipe you have, I'd love to see it. My recipes only involve buttermilk and whipping cream.

I'll get my recipe at home tonight for you tomorrow. It's quite simple involving pine nuts and basil.

I think I kneaded my pasta quite a bit as I not only did about 10 minutes by hand, but then ran it through the machine several times. Perhaps I did overcook it a tad which is quite easy to do if you're used to the very dried out store pasta.

[sequim]

What city are you in? If you can't find Tipo '00' anywhere, then I'd go with AP, and if you can't find semolina for dusting, then maybe you use that King Arthur stuff?

Maybe we should set up a service - people tell us what city they're in, and we all google it like mad, finding a place where they can find '00'?

Actually Abra and I live in the same part of the country - Seattle and environs. We have DeLaurentis Italian food store downtown and when I went there checking on the pasta flours, they said semolina is different from durum so I got a bag of each. Plus they also had '00' flour. I did notice that semolina gave a different feel to my pasta than using the durum which made a very soft pasta. The semolina/ap mix had more gritiness in it.

[MobyP]

Mario Batali's Ricotta couldn't be easier - but of course it's not real ricotta (which means re-cooked), which involves only the leftover whey once the curds have been removed. I sometimes use organic skimmed milk to emulate this. Having said that, if you find great organic cream or milk, the result is fantastic. Wholefoods in LA had some raw milk for a while, which worked really well.

Actually here in Seattle, we have Mario B's own father's restaurant to go to and the other day some of us eGulleters went to a lunch there and at the end he brought out a huge bowl of homemade ricotta that we put on the slices of bread with some chestnut honey.

That must've been fantastic.

[sequim]

Mario Batali's Ricotta couldn't be easier - but of course it's not real ricotta (which means re-cooked), which involves only the leftover whey once the curds have been removed. I sometimes use organic skimmed milk to emulate this. Having said that, if you find great organic cream or milk, the result is fantastic. Wholefoods in LA had some raw milk for a while, which worked really well.

That must've been fantastic.

Thanks Moby. That's interesting that in place of buttermilk which my recipe uses, his has fresh lemons.

Salumi is fantastic and an eGulleter hangout...

[Abra]

I've got durum flour, and I've got semolina flour, but no 00. Thanks for the recommendation to DeLaurentis, sequim. I've never been there. Maybe you and I and agnolottigirl should have a pasta-making fest sometime soon?

Moby, I'm a no-mix-er too, but I do trust KA in general, and they claim their stuff is the best, so I gave it a try.

[sequim]

I've got durum flour, and I've got semolina flour, but no 00.  Thanks for the recommendation to DeLaurentis, sequim.  I've never been there.  Maybe you and I and agnolottigirl should have a pasta-making fest sometime soon?

That's a mahvelous idea Abra but if word got out, everyone would want to go.

DeLaurentis is a treat. They have all these great cheeses, too. But it is across the pond from you. I would think Central Market would have '00' flour though. Have you checked?

Damn, I don't want to be at work, I want to be working on my pasta!

[MobyP]

You guys should definitely have a pasta day - and take pictures! You could do different flavoured pastas - spinach, beetroot, black pepper, basil - the more people, the easier it would be.

Edited March 29, 2004 by MobyP (log)

[FoodMan]

Moby-

I've been making pasta for some years now and enjoy it very much. I also loved this class and the ideas for several fillings. My compliments on these pictures as well, they are perfect and look like they belong in a cookbook. Great work.

Elie

[FoodMan]

sequim-

Sorry to go off topic here, but can you paraphrase the Ricotta recipe for us (or PM it if possible)? I use Batali's recipe and although very tasty, I think it just has a little too much lemon/sour flavor in it which is not always welcome.

Thanks

Elie

[sequim]

sequim-

Sorry to go off topic here, but can you paraphrase the Ricotta recipe for us (or PM it if possible)? I use Batali's recipe and although very tasty, I think it just has a little too much lemon/sour flavor in it which is not always welcome.

Thanks

Elie

I'd be happy too, Elie. However, I haven't tried the ricotta recipe yet. I did try the mascarpone recipe, however, and used in a sauce with my spinach pasta last night and it was delicious. Like a very soft cream cheese or clotted cream with a hint of buttermilk, but overall creamy tasting, not sour at all.

Ricotta:

4 quarts whole milk

1 qt cultured buttermilk

salt, pepper, sugar(optional)

Combine milk and buttermilk in 6-8 qt pot. Place over medium heat until 180 on candy thermometer, about 40 minutes. Cook for about 20 mins for a very soft-curd cheese or about 35 mins for a firmer curd (1 to 1-1/4 hrs total). Do not stir while cooking as it yields poor texture. Recipe says a small scorched part on the bottom will develop but this is just part of the ricotta flavor.

To test curd, use back of spoon to gently press top of clot that forms, should feel like custard and the whey will surround it.

Finally, line a colander with cheesecloth dipped in cold water, wrung dry and pour cheese in, then cover. Do not scrape pan. Let cheese drain for 40 mins or longer, serve warm, sprinkled with salt, pepper or sugar. Cover and refrigerate for as long as a week. Makes about 1 qt cheese (2 pounds).

[FoodMan]

Thanks for the recipe, I will try it soon.

Elie

[Marco_Polo]

Moby, this is a brilliant class. Your text is excellent and inspirational; the photos are at once informative, instructional and atmospheric. You've made me want to get down my pasta machine (gathering dust in a top kitchen cupboard along with my ice cream maker) and have a go this weekend. Making pasta is always very therapeutic.

What is an equally impressive element of these classes is the expertise, knowledge and enthusiasm of those who participate in the Q & As. So many different individuals coming at a subject from different points of reference, different experiences to share, different sets of knowledge and different questions and problems. It is a real learning experience. So thanks too to all the other contributors!

I'll try and let you know how I get on at the weekend. I've been rather hankering to have a go at crab ravioli (since the local crab from Budleigh Salterton is particularly good at the moment).

Marc

[MobyP]

Foodman - thank you. In the next section, which goes up tomorrow, the recipes get a little more involved - I was hoping to take a beginner level up to intermediate approach, for those who have gained some confidence: Pansotti of braised short ribs, chicken and pancetta tortelloni, and a raviolo of artichoke confit.

Marc - exactly! First came the fondu set, then came the pasta machine. "Oh, thanks, yeah, I've always wanted one of those....." (Honey - clear some space in the cupboard!) I can't tell you how many friends I have who have to think about it for a few minutes, and then realise they have one as well.

Also, I can't tell you how impressed people are to show up at your place for dinner, and have some course that involves hand made pasta. It's the most massive return (in appreciation, gratitude), for a reasonable investment in time. It also allows the imagination to wander.

The crab ravioli sounds brilliant. I know of one restaurant that uses a scallop mousseline to mix the crab meat with - it's like the frame of a picture - in the same way they would use scallop mousse for a lobster ravioli. I bet that would work really well if you were doing large raviolos also. I could look up a recipe if it would be of any help (I'm sure you don't need it). Let us know how it goes.

The classes here have been an inspiration to me as well. I think everyone has their favourites - but there are a few which are amazing (and there are one or two coming up which I still can't believe).

[Marco_Polo]

Marc - exactly! First came the fondu set, then came the pasta machine. "Oh, thanks, yeah, I've always wanted one of those....." (Honey - clear some space in the cupboard!) I can't tell you how many friends I have who have to think about it for a few minutes, and then realise they have one as well...

The crab ravioli sounds brilliant. I know of one restaurant that uses a scallop mousseline to mix the crab meat with - it's like the frame of a picture - in the same way they would use scallop mousse for a lobster ravioli. I bet that would work really well if you were doing large raviolos also. I could look up a recipe if it would be of any help

Nah, Moby, the pasta machine is definitely not in the class of the fondue set when it comes to useless (or hardly used) pieces of kitchen equipment. We DO use the pasta machine from time to time, just not frequently enough. But I agree, it is always worth doing and this class will inspire me to get off my butt.

Now about that scallop mousseline. Sounds an excellent idea! Now that the weather's improved, we're getting some great diver's scallops round here, not yet very large, not cheap (80p a pop on the half-shell), but sweet as anything. Probably too good to mince into a mousseline? But I'd appreciate a broad-brush recipe idea if you've got a mo just in case since mousselines and such fancy stuff aren't really my normal sort of thang.

Marc

[MobyP]

I agree - you don't need to make it fancy to have a good time (hmm, sounds like a song coming on). But there are degrees - so on one side you could go for a mousse, and use that as a base for the crab meat, and on the simpler side of the same equation, just roughly (or finely) chop a few scallops - even 2 or 3 - and mix it with an equal amount of crab meat - season with a squeeze of lemon, some salt and pepper. Some people use a sprinkle of cayenne. Mix in an egg yolk and a splash of cream maybe to bind. Bung it in the fridge for 30 mins to set. You'll have a great contrast of flavours - the texture of the crab meat is stringy, against the smothness of the scallop, and a strong flavour against a relatively subtle one. You might find the crab taste becomes more pronounced by having the scallop there.

Also, you only need a small amount of stuffing to fill a relatively large number of ravioli.

For a full fledged mousse, blend 100g (1/4lb / 3 1/2oz) of scallops with some salt and pepper until almost a puree, scraping down sides as you go. Add an egg yolk, and blend briefly to combine. Place in the fridge for 10 mins. Then fold in 50ml of cream, then the crab meat, a squeeze of lemon, and return to fridge for 20 mins to set. Then use in raviolos or raviolis etc.

[Marco_Polo]

Thanks, Moby! I'll be down to Exmouth docks first thing at the weekend and see what I can rustle up.

[curlywurlyfi]

my god, Moby - those wonderful photographs, and that crispy sea bass, and those artichokes - I am speechless. Absolutely world class. prosit, prosit.

Fi

PS 'Latvian squirrel'??