Messy Pastries

[Jay Francis]

Subject: Messy Pastries

Idea by Jay Francis. Ideas Wanted.

There is a virtue in making precise, beautiful French pastries. But often, the

taste of these is not spectacular. The fondant is too sweet, the cakes are too

dry.

My thinking is that it is time to invent a new kind of pastry. A messy pastry

as it were. Creamy, flavorful, sacrificing good looks for good taste.

Jack Daniels soaked bread pudding meets my criteria for a messy pastry.

One that comes to mind: one would make a domed chocolate cake, core it out from

the bottom, and fill it with the finest chocolate mousse.

Or, one might break a cake into chunks and serve it with creme anglaise.

I am looking for ideas for messy pastries. What do you think?

[Gifted Gourmet]

Homestyle, peasant desserts sometimes qualify as "messy" ...

I have made freeform apple croustades which are delicious, but not particularly neat... freeform anything is not always symmetrical ... but don't tell Martha ...

The creme anglaise with pieces of cake is something I have done ... sort of a pastry "oeufs a la neige" ...

and the hollowed out domed cake filled with mousse? Hasn't that been done and given various names? Rather an unfrozen bombe?

[Moopheus]

I do this all the time. It doesn't require anything more than not worrying about details that don't affect the taste of the dessert. Anything that doesn't directly improve the taste of the dessert is pretty unimportant when you get right down to it.

[Jay Francis]

What becomes important is mouth feel and stimulation of as many different taste buds on the tongue. I'm reminded of a recipe that shows up on the internet for kids around halloween, where you create a a dessert that looks like kitty litter, with bits of tootsie roll, torn off pieces of cake, etc. Visual presentation taking a back seat to what happens on the tongue.

[cbarre02]

Though ascetics may not be quintessential to a great tasting dessert, they could play more of a roll than we would like to admit. The consistency of all the layers of a beautiful entremet must be just right, for it to be structurally sound. These precise layers (when done correctly) have a wonderful contrast of textures.

Don't get me wrong I love bread pudding, betties, and cobblers, but when executed properly modern "pretty" dessert can be just a wonderful. Besides why can't a "Messy" dessert be one of the components in a beautiful dessert.

[Steve Klc]

Jay--I think you have hit on something--an unstoppable force--but it is something which is already here and well underway. Modern cooking and pastry are well into overthrowing the supposed heirarchy of these formal French forms and what have become labelled as "architectural" desserts championed in some media outlets--and "messy" desserts are part of the future. (All desserts are inherently architectural.) It just seems the French pastry folks have been allowed more of a stranglehold on pastry form and perception than the French savory cuisine folks have. I think, though, that even with successful messy pastries, as you term them, there is a very calculated design and artistry behind the mess--there's just as much aesthetics to the mess, in other words. It's not spontaneous--and often requires much more thought and work behind the scenes precisely because you are not aping other codified forms.

First we have to keep shooting down this canard in the minds of some media and many diners that form itself necessarily and/or generally dictates flavor somehow--it doesn't, at all. We have to do a better job educating and raising awareness of dessert, of what it means to be a creative pastry chef, of what it means for something to be "good." Something isn't rewarding or good-tasting because it is in the form it is. Just like organic produce doesn't necessarily taste good because it is organic. Messy, avant-garde, architectural, formal French, whatever style--a good, rewarding dessert is just that--good-tasting and rewarding, it follows the meal which preceded it and flows well with the ethos of the chef or cuisine.

One thing we've talked a lot about on eG pastry--is a la minute construction of components more like a savory chef--which is largely antithetical to this older-school, more traditional French/Swiss/German dessert method of almost entirely assembling the core of a dessert in advance and then holding it for service. Come in early, do your work, go home. I won't go over that but likely embracing the tenets of this method will be a key to your developing successful "messy" desserts--you do also have to start thinking differently but it seems you already have! Well done and welcome to eG pastry.

A lot of your options will depend on your venue--be it a patisserie/takeout shop or a restaurant. It's difficult to serve messy pastry in a shop--you often have to entice with form--your customers have to carry it away and sometimes consume it later. It has to travel well--so you build something in a glass perhaps--you even see this in France now--Herme or Conticini with little pre-layered cups of cream, sauces, cake, etc--some very messy to eat, but very unctuous. Conticini tried some a la minute things, like little messy parfaits or sundaes as desserts in a glass, at his little Petrossian NY pastry shop with Chris Broberg, even using the Pacojet for a la minute servings but that proved too troublesome in the end. Creamy, flavorful, but according to whose definition are they "sacrificing good looks for good taste?" Only those who have rigid rules or a very narrow view of form.

It does get more interesting with plated desserts, another area the traditional French factions have lagged behind because they're stuck on form--it's an ingrained part of their dessert culture and very few dare to step outside it. They're only now discovering the freedom other countries have shown them in form--like you see with the Spanish and the US.

"Jack Daniels soaked bread pudding meets my criteria for a messy pastry." I agree, and I think if you were working in some modern american restaurant down south you could easily serve this as an a la minute parfait, perhaps, with a warm anglaise in the bottom, some traditional bread pudding mixture scooped in the middle maybe with some vanilla-molasses gelee, some caramelized pecans for crunch, topped with a warm caramelized Jack syrup and sea salt. You could take all those ingredients and spread them out on the plate as well--arranging maybe toasted cubes of cake in a row along a rectangular plate--and then saucing, drizzling and sprinkling along the length of the plate. As you said: "one might break a cake into chunks and serve it with creme anglaise." Do it that way and guess what you have?

That's right, a presentation Balaguer and Adria did 10 years ago. Why not arrange a dessert like a chef might arrange several sardines freshly grilled and sauced on a plate? Why not? Well, form and convention was holding you back, that's why. Desserts weren't supposed to look like a plate of sardines. Look in any of the Spanish pastry books--say the Albert Adria Postres book, which directly threatens this old-school French formula and which seemed to some like an atomic bomb being dropped on the stuck in time nature of French pastry--look how avant garde, organic and messy some of them are? Like his very simple coupe glass of raspberry espuma. Damn if that doesn't look wonderfully messy yet ethereal and inviting. Realize, though, that there's often a very personal, very expressive plan behind the mess--artfully arranged and conceived so when you scoop it up with your spoon you get 3 or 4 elements at once--a cube of cake, a creamy sauce, an infused sauce, a gelee, a crunchy bit sprinkled on top, etc. You find that hidden surprise inside or on the bottom. It uses the same components familiar to anyone who grew up in a French patisserie--but twists and turns them creatively.

I think one thing is paramount--the form of a "messy" or free-form or rustic presentation doesn't guarantee anything either--your skill, your sense of flavor, of palate, your staff, your audience, all blend together to guarantee that.

As far as ideas--they're limitless--start with something you know that exists in some sort of codified form--like a slice of baked apple pie. What do you like eating it that way, what don't you like? It might be the sameness of the apples--so twist that around. Disassemble that--get at the core components and flavors and then reassemble it as an a la minute plated dessert which expresses your idea of flavor and taste. An apple pie "magnified" in a glass, an apple pie stretched out in a bowl, a liquid apple pie which you drink but which says "Mom's apple pie" on your taste buds all the way down. Use apple juice, apple gelee, apple croquant, sparkling apple cider, Calvados if you happen to like Calvados, maybe little diced cubes of warm pie dough crumbled on top, etc. Then think about how you want your customer to eat it--scoop it up with a spoon? Then figure out a messy way to present it but that which also somehow invites your customer--presented with this mess--to somehow scoop it up the right way and get all the flavors you want them to get. Start with a thin layer of creme anglaise or a thin layer of apple gelee ladled into a wide shallow bowl and build a "mess" upward. Make sure they'll say "Mom's apple pie" and you'll get some media exposure and hopefully more encouragement to go further down this road--if it is good.

[phaelon56]

I'm a pastry klutz but really appreciate this discussion. Steve - the movement you're describing sounds much like some of the driving forces behind the Arts & Crafts movement.

Form follows function but once the artisan has ensured that the functional requirement has been met (in this case it tastes really, really good).... there's an imperative to deliver a nice clean visual presentation that is soothing to the eye and the spirit. Excessive and ornate ornamentation is not deployed simply for the sake of visual appeal but subtle decorative elements that enhance the object are desirable.

I wonder if there was ever an extension of the Arts & Crafts movement to culinary areas.... with in William Morris' time in England or during Gustav Stickley's era here in the US. I doubt that such is the case bvut I see interesting parallels.

[Jay Francis]

Well said, Steve.

[bleudauvergne]

I'm on a mission this weekend to find photos of messy French pastries. They're not all so prim and proper, you know.

[I82Much]

Thought this was an interesting discussion deserving of a better location