Chipotles

[tryska]

If you watch Bobby Flay consistently, you might get tired of anchos, too, since it's apparently his favorite pepper and he puts it in everything along with honey.

*lol*

i was gonna snark on bobby too, but you beat me to it.

[stovetop]

Ah... question; Is not chipotle smoke Jalepeno(sp), so is the smoke that you are tired of??? I love ancho too!!

Creole sauce with a variety of peppers is my fav

julliene onions browned with garlic then sweet peppers, then tomato, beer, then add canned plum tomato ( hand crushed) add a whole array of peppers hot if you want but i like to keep it med. then you are not leaving any one out.

stovetop

[ExtraMSG]

Chipotle is a smoked ripened jalapeno (there's actually an n with a tilda, but it's a bitch on a PC to make such things; when I write in Spanish, I wish I still used a Mac). But they also often come in cans swimming in a tangy adobo sauce, which people often don't like.

[bbq4meanytime]

I'm not tired of chipotles, maybe just a bit leary of overusing them.

I keep chipotle paste in the fridge (fried, rehydrated and pureed) and add it to a bunch of things-I just no longer tell people or descibe the dish as being "chipotle this or that."

[stovetop]

What is "adobo sauce" i want to make sure that i am thinking the same thing.

thanks

stovetop

[ExtraMSG]

It's a vinegarry sauce, a lot like a bbq sauce.

[theabroma]

Adobo:

The basic, universal components of adobo are chiles anchos and mulatos, toasted, seeded, deveined, soaked in boiling water, and ground to a paste, along with some white onion and a few small cloves of garlic, and of course, salt. Beyond that, it can contain Mexican oregano (Lippia graveolens or Poliomentha longiflora), and perhaps some other dried herbs. Sometimes guajillos or chile pasilla are also added to the ancho/mulato base.

This paste is diluted a bit with a fruity vinegar - pineapple is common. It is used as a rub on cuts of meat to be grilled or stewed, and acts as a light preservation agent, a tenderizer, and certainly a flavoring.

The piles of brick red meats you see in a Mexican butcher's case are smeared with adobo.

The New Mexican/Southwestern dish, carne adovada, is meat in a red chile stew. Other than having inherited the adobado name, it is rather different than Mexican adobado meats.

[stovetop]

that's more like it.

thanks

stovetop

Is not this same mixture mixed with chocolate??

[theabroma]

Chipotles

I still love them, but I also understand what Foodie52 is saying. I am over their overuse and abuse, but not the chile itself.

First, there are several varieties of chipotles. The meco, which is made from a corked (those 'stretch mark' looking things on jalapenos), dried and smoked big jalapeno. They are commonly used for stuffing, and they are wonderful. In Puebla and Tlaxcala, in the rural areas, mecos are also used for moles, giving them a lighter color, and less heat.

The ones we can buy easily here in the States, the chipotle, is also good toasted, rehydrated and stuffed, as well as used in salsas.

The little ones, called moritas (although in Hidalgo they ripen and smoke dry serranos and call them moritas), make a killer salsa - toasted with a few cloves of garlic in the husk, in a heavy cast iron pan or griddle, then ground with some water and a bit of salt. It'll snap you to attention and give you convent posture right quick.

I think that we've all had too much chipotle mayonnaise, and other abominations created by people who had to rush to use the hot, trendy thing and did not want to be bothered by understanding it. Although I will be the first to admit that I love a bit of toasted, ground chipotle in my hot chocolate and sprinkled on jicama, with lime juice and queso cotija.

Theabroma

[theabroma]

Is not this same mixture mixed with chocolate??

I'm not sure what you mean by mixed with chocolate? Do you mean something like mole poblano or mole oaxaqueno?

[ExtraMSG]

Adobo:

The basic, universal components of adobo are chiles anchos and mulatos, toasted, seeded, deveined, soaked in boiling water, and ground to a paste, along with some white onion and a few small cloves of garlic, and of course, salt. Beyond that, it can contain Mexican oregano (Lippia graveolens or Poliomentha longiflora), and perhaps some other dried herbs. Sometimes guajillos or chile pasilla are also added to the ancho/mulato base.

This paste is diluted a bit with a fruity vinegar - pineapple is common. It is used as a rub on cuts of meat to be grilled or stewed, and acts as a light preservation agent, a tenderizer, and certainly a flavoring.

But this isn't what's in most cans of chipotles, I don't think. Chipotles adovados or in adobo aren't the traditional ancho/guajillo or achiote marinades (adobo literally means marinade, if I remember right, in Spanish) that you would find in the full dishes. What's in cans of chipotles (at least the ones I get) is much closer to a bbq sauce. That's part of the problem, imo, with canned chipotles.

[stovetop]

Is not this same mixture mixed with chocolate??

I'm not sure what you mean by mixed with chocolate? Do you mean something like mole poblano or mole oaxaqueno?

Yes a mole poblano

stovetop

Edited March 16, 2004 by stovetop (log)

[Mudpuppie]

Yes, I work at Central Market. I've been told that Berkeley Bowl is like CM but on a smaller scale. And our customer service is better.

Agreed.

I thought I'd never get over Central Market ( ) until I met Berkeley Bowl ( ). 20 different kinds of radishes!! BB doesn't replace CM, but it's certainly a suitable West Coast substitute.

As for chilis, I love pasillas but have a hard time finding them. (Had an even worse time growing them.) Would love to be able to replicate Curra's pasilla enchilada sauce.... *hint*

[theabroma]

Actually, the way adobo is used puts it closer to the recados from the Yucatan - moist, almost halvah-thick pastes of spices and herbs that are rubbed on meats for much the same purposes as adobos, and then the meat is pit cooked, roasted, or braised. Although the recados are not diluted with vinegar, they are often diluted with the juice of sour, or Seville, oranges - which it not as acidic as vinegar, but it is pretty stout stuff.

Moles, on the other hand, generally do not contain vinegar or any other souring agent, and are, if anything (and I generalize a bit here) on the sweeter side of the divide. Markets sell mole pastes of all colors, including green (pumpkin seeds), and black (everything is charred). Generally speaking the meat (typically chicken or turkey) is boiled and pieced out or shredded, and the broth is used to dilute the mole paste. The fowl is then put back in the sauce.

Obviously, the most famous mole here is mole poblano, famous for containing chocolate. Mole negro oaxaqueno also has chocolate in it. Neither have a lot of chocolate, and what is used is Mexican table chocolate, containing sugar, cinnamon, and almonds.

That said, I had two great mole binges on my trip, 5 houses each, after a festival of the Virgin in Acuitlapilco and again in San Francisco Tlacochcalco. All of the ladies referred to their moles as 'mole poblano' all contained anchos and mulatos. Some also had pasillas and some had chipotles - either mecos or regular red chipotles. But no chocolate. And no tomatoes. They were all the same, but remarkably different at the same time. I have only recently retracted my vow never to eat mole again ... I had nightmares that I was drowning in oceans of it.

Regards,

Theabroma

[birder53]

I'm not done with chipotle just yet!

[Brad Ballinger]

Cascabels are my current fave. They have a gorgeous nutty flavor and moderate heat. I also like deArbol- hot and flavorful.

I totally forgot about cascabels. Thats a great chile.

I'm with the two of you. Cascabels are my favorites of the dried chile world. They have a nutty quality that I don't find in other dried chiles. I like them ground to flavor chili, and pureed with liquids for sauces in particular.

[badthings]

Foodie52, Berkelely Bowl has at least all the produce options that Central Market has, maybe more, I would say, but in smaller quantities so there's more turn over.  Whenever I've been to CM, the quality of the produce was a mixed bag.  At BB, it's all awesome.  Probably a better selection of meats at CM, though.  Although the many tuna grades at BB are impressive.  I guess that's a Tx vs Ca thing.

Judging from a single trip to the Austin Central Market many years ago, the Bowl is better. I would still be pretty happy if I "had" to shop at CM. The produce may be fresher simply because we are closer to where much of it is grown (and because of the turnover), but it does not compare to the local farmer's markets. It is also, however, very cheap. On the other hand, shopping there is like Thunderdome. An ordeal that takes many days to recover from.

Returning to dried chiles, I love chilhuacles, which are hard to find, though I know eGullett's Rancho_Gordo grows them. I am also on a quest to track down the rare pasilla de Oaxaca, which will probably require going to Oaxaca. And no, I'm not sick of chipotles, but I never buy prepared foods (because I get to shop at the Bowl), so that's not a problem. I am, however, tired of people pronouncing the word stupidly.

[rgruby]

Nope. Definitely not tired of chipotles, in adobo or otherwise. I haven't read the whole thread, but I'll add my dos pesos and say that the quality of the adobo sauce that accompanies canned chipotles varies greatly. (I like the Herdez version, but I haven't seen it in these parts lately).

Also, I'm a Canuck - we have a pretty small Mexican population, so Mexican food generally is not all that common. Even Tex-Mex is not really that common, unless you count bad roadhouse/ pub natchos smothered in chili. As a result, we haven't been overdosed with chipotles. In fact, I'd say the chipotle is still relatively undiscovered here. But not by me. I put em in/on everything.

Cheers,

Geoff Ruby

[Mudpuppie]

Forgot to mention that my dad makes his own chipotles. (Well, he makes them inasmuch as a person who can't pronounce "chipotle" can make them.) They're awesome.

You omnivores will blanch, but I add them to anything that cries out for bacon. They give a very definite bacony quality, without being too spicy. I even fooled my mother, the pork fiend, with some chipotle-tinged collard greens.

[stovetop]

Actually, the way adobo is used puts it closer to the recados from the Yucatan - moist, almost halvah-thick pastes of spices and herbs that are rubbed on meats for much the same purposes as adobos, and then the meat is pit cooked, roasted, or braised.  Although the recados are not diluted with vinegar, they are often diluted with the juice of sour, or Seville, oranges - which it not as acidic as vinegar, but it is pretty stout stuff.

Moles, on the other hand, generally do not contain vinegar or any other souring agent, and are, if anything (and I generalize a bit here) on the sweeter side of the divide.  Markets sell mole pastes of all colors, including green (pumpkin seeds), and black (everything is charred).  Generally speaking the meat (typically chicken or turkey) is boiled and pieced out or shredded, and the broth is used to dilute the mole paste.  The fowl is then put back in the sauce.

Obviously, the most famous mole here is mole poblano, famous for containing chocolate.  Mole negro oaxaqueno also has chocolate in it.  Neither have a lot of chocolate, and what is used is Mexican table chocolate, containing sugar, cinnamon, and almonds.

That said, I had two great mole binges on my trip, 5 houses each, after a festival of the Virgin in Acuitlapilco and again in San Francisco Tlacochcalco.  All of the ladies referred to their moles as 'mole poblano'  all contained anchos and mulatos.  Some also had pasillas and some had chipotles - either mecos or regular red chipotles.  But no chocolate.  And no tomatoes.  They were all the same, but remarkably different at the same time.  I have only recently retracted my vow never to eat mole again ... I had nightmares that I was drowning in oceans of it.

Regards,

Theabroma

Thanks for the info.

I am not tired of chipotles as of yet, i still have a lot of things to do with them, I love blending them with other peppers, I am updating on a creole sauce that I used for po-boys also I have a corn meal crusted red snapper with creole and cajun tarter that every one seemed to love on my last menu at my old restaurant the Rajun Cajun

As for mole (adobe mole) I am just getting started I tried mixing it with a little chicken stock and it was a great sauce for charbroiled chicken marinated in a little lime, garlic, tequila, olive oil. yum

There is some great product out there, when I go on my next trip to Vancouver I must go to que-pasa it is a great mexican store in Vancouver.

stovetop

Edited March 17, 2004 by stovetop (log)

[rancho_gordo]

Returning to dried chiles, I love chilhuacles, which are hard to find, though I know eGullett's Rancho_Gordo grows them. I am also on a quest to track down the rare pasilla de Oaxaca, which will probably require going to Oaxaca.

My new batch of chilhuacles are germinating now, almost at 100% (I take these things personally). Even more importantly, I think I have a source for those Oaxacan pasillasa and should have them within a month or so, but they are imported, not mine.

Chipotles are fine but I sell many dried peppers at farmers markets and there's a typical customer, usually a guy with classic yuppie trappings. He sees my burlap bags full of fresh, pliable anchos, de Arbols, cascabels, etc and only wants to know if I have chipotle, or "that smoky one". He knows sh*t from a tree but thinks he's an expert because he knows what chile this is. I try and talk to him about chiles but he's only interested in chipotles. I imagine he is the type that has caused my beloved tequila to be so expensive and cigars so costly. If this were an occasional occurence, I could live with it, but this "guy" shows up as many customers throughout the day and frankly it's heartbreaking.

But then someone will come up and see my papaloquelite and exlaim they've been looking for this for years after seeing it in cookbooks and all is well with the world. Can you tell I need a vacation?

[Edited for spelling x2]

Edited March 17, 2004 by rancho_gordo (log)

[fifi]

Does anyone have a clue as to why seeds for the Oaxacan peppers can't seem to be found? I have googled every which way from Sunday and the only thing I get is recipes and not many of those either. Even this exceedingly cool site doesn't have them. And these guys have probably more variety of peppers than I have seen anywhere. What is the deal rancho_gordo?

[ExtraMSG]

rancho, you just need to get your shipping department in order so that we can all make up for that guy.

[rancho_gordo]

Does anyone have a clue as to why seeds for the Oaxacan peppers can't seem to be found?

There's probably little demand for them. I brought mine back myself from chiles I ate. (Burp). Remind me at the end of summer and I'll try and save some for you.

rancho, you just need to get your shipping department in order so that we can all make up for that guy.

One day... hopefully soon.

I'm in a much less cranky mood today! Now if only the price of tequila would go back down...

[fifi]

Does anyone have a clue as to why seeds for the Oaxacan peppers can't seem to be found?

There's probably little demand for them. I brought mine back myself from chiles I ate. (Burp). Remind me at the end of summer and I'll try and save some for you.

That is odd. A lot of recipes you see for the mole that uses them says something like "you can't get these pepper in the US so subsitute blah blah..." I always take that as an immediate challenge and hope that the ever increasing variety of peppers coming available I will score some. No such luck.

How much do you want us to read into how you transported those pepper seeds?

Oh yeah... An please get with the mail order plan Pepper Man. Those of us in the farmer's market wasteland are waiting. I want beans, too.