Birthday Trip to Paris - Merged topics

[Girl415]

I am heading to Paris at the beginning of April with my two sisters and best friend for my 40th birthday and would greatly appreciate some assistance in selecting restaurants.

Currently I have reservations at the following restaurants:

La Braisière

Le Violon d'Ingres

Chez Georges (Sunday eveing)

La Regalade

L'angle du Faubourg (birthday dinner; wanted to eat at L'Astrance but could not get a reservation :(--

I have a couple of questions that I would love to get some opinions/thoughts on:

1. Are there any names on the list that we should delete?

2. Does anyone have a better suggestion than Chez Georges for Sunday dinner?

3. Will we really miss out by not eating at Epi Dupin or Les Bookinistes (I took them off the list after reading reviews that led me to believe they are over-run by Americans).

4. Can anyone suggest a good restaurant for my 40th birthday. I am not sure L'angle du Faubourg is the best choice, however, given how weak the dollar is I don't feel up to splurging at a three star.

I have read so many reviews on egullet.com, chowhound.com, zagat.com and Patricia Well's site that my head is starting to spin. Too much information seems to have paralyzed me... I would truly appreciate thoughts/suggestions/ideas.

Thank you!

[John Talbott]

I would strike La Braisiere where I had a very disquieting experience on Feb 23rd. They over-charged me (1 E, but it's the principle [of course it's the money]) for a glass of wine; and this happened after a friend warned me they had over-charged him for a bottle earlier that month so I was forewarned and found out how much.

Les Bookinistes is full of tourists but Ledeuil's second restaurant, Ze Kitchen Galerie, next door is not, at least at lunch time.

As for Sunday night, I think I'd rather go to Le Petit Pontoise (written up in the same NYT's article as La Braiserie).

Regarding your 40th, oh boy. I think you have to better define what your ideal would be in terms of ambiance, setting, food, price, etc.

[OAKGLEN]

Goumard, 9 r. Duphot, in the 1st, one block from the Madeline metro, is an excellent seafood specialist. Michelin one star, no tourists, no write-ups on web sites or tourist guides, we greatly enjoyed it. Tables widely spaced; attentive service and at prices one-half or less of those seen at the more noted spots. The crab soup entree is to die for! Goumard is open Sat. & Sun. JP

[Bux]

Places that have recently come to fame or a star can be a problem. Often they don't know how to handle the popularity that attends it and service can fall precipitiously. Obviously that's not the norm, or no one would go the starred places, but it's something to pay attention to.

My guess is that Violon d'Ingres will be more expensive than l'Angle de Faubourg, and that chez Georges may be as well. Don't equate bistro with inexpensive or stars with expensive, although the latter is more likely to be the truth.

There are too many excellent restaurants at all price points in Paris to fear missing any one of them.

[MiguelCardoso]

Girl415: Figaroscope is a reliable resource for finding out where Paris restaurants stand at the moment. It certainly seems to approve of Goumard, for instance - best bathrooms in Paris, apparently!

Let me know if you can't access the Goumard review (it may be a session link or whatever) and I can e-mail you the text, unless one of eGullet's copyright nazis is watching. ;)

Thanks a lot for the recommendation, OAKGLEN!

Membership of Figaroscope was free last time I checked. Although it has its quirks and bugbears I've found it to be well reported and fairly judged.

Happy 40th birthday, when it comes! Or why not start enjoying it now, come to think of it?

[Girl415]

La Braisiere was recommended by the hotel where we will be staying (The Victoria Palace Hotel). The concierge recommended La Braisiere (he said it recently recevied its first star). Based on what I have read, it seems as if Paris bistros have been through a major transformation over the last ten-plus years and are currently all the rage; so I thought it would be fun to try some of the better ones.

This is my first trip to Paris in about 15 years. The last time I was there I was with a friend who treated me to Jules Verne, Lucas Carton and La Tour D'argent. I originally made a reservation at Taillevent for my birthday but later cancelled as I think we can have a fantastic meal without paying $250/pp.

We will be in Paris for 5 nights and so I was hoping to find find 5 restaurants with excellent food that aren't prohibitively expensive or too touristy. My sister thought it would be fun to enjoy one meal at a "celebrity chef" restaurant, however, some of the lesser priced spots, such as L'Atelier du Rubuchon, Spoon, food & Wine, seem to garner mixed reviews.

I have read positive reviews on the following and was wondering if any might be a good birthday dinner choice:

Au Bon Accueil

Au Camelot

Au Trois Gascon

Chamarre

Jamin

Le Bristol

Le Pre Catalan

Le Repaire de Cartouche

Le Carre des Fueillants

Atelier Maitre Albert

Aux Lyonnais

La Table du Lancaster

I am also curious if any of the restaurants listed above would be good substitutions for La Braisiere on our first night?

I am definitely at a point where I have read too many reviews and find myself going in circles second guessing my decisions. At this point, personal recommendations would be very helpful, and greatly appreciated.

[Mark Sommelier]

I spent a week in Paris last November and the best meal I had BY FAR in France was at Le Bristol. Nothing could be faulted - perfect, gracious service, out of this world food, elegant ambience. My main course of squab and foie gras pot au feu may well be the best thing I've ever eaten in my whole life.

Happy Birthday.

[Bux]

Personal recommendations are very subjective. I'd certainly like to hear an abstract description of what you want for your birthday meal as that list is confusing to me. Of the restaurants in which I've eaten for instance, Au C'Amelot (on the rue Amelot) and le Carre des Feuillants are so different from each other. Although not quite at opposite ends of the scale of luxury and formality, they are certainly far enough apart to make comparisons almost impossible. You can have a fantastic meal without paying $250/pp, but it won't be the same kind of fanatastic. At the same time, I've had some great disappointments by trying to eat economically at the top restaurants. Sometimes it works, and at other times you're better off going for the best menu at the second best places. There are places in Paris where it seems as if the first hundred dollars is going towards the flowers and overhead. You will never have as swell an evening at a place where dinner runs fifty dollars, but you may well have better food there than if you try to eat for $125 at the first place.

You will probably not recreate your experience of fifteen years ago at la Tour d'Argent for much less than $250 a person today, but you can have excellent food for not much more than $50 a person. I'll rave about my meal at Ducasse for $500 and I'll rave about my meal at Aux Lyonnais for $100 (prices approximate and for two) but they're not the same kind of raves. If you have access to a Michelin guide or even their web site - http://www.viamichelin.com/ - you can get some idea of the relative prices and comfort (look for the crossed forks and spoons) of your choices. The better values may be at the low end, but the more "special" occaisons may be suited to the high end, if you're thinking of one meal as celebratory.

[docsconz]

I also went to Paris for my fortieth, but that was five years ago! Epi Dupin was perhaps the best restaurant that we went to, but we didn't do any of the fancier restaurants. We actually celebrated my birthday by getting some great cheeses, bread, pate' and a bottle of wine and sitting under the Eiffel Tower. I was happy.

[Girl415]

Thanks for all of the thoughful comments and suggestions. In terms of the trip overall, my preference would be to enjoy the best menu possible at second best places than to eat economically at the top restaurants. I am happy to splurge, I just don't want my sisters to spend 5 days complaining!

For my birthday, its easier to describe what I am not looking for than it is to tell you what I am looking for since I haven't been to Paris in a long time. I would prefer not to eat at a top restaurant such as Taillevent, Guy Savoy or Le Grand Vefour, nor do I want to eat at a casual bistro or brasserie, no matter how fabulous the food may be. What I guess I was looking for was something in between.

In addition, I would prefer a more traditional French meal to a Haute cuisine meal, though eating at one haute cuisine establishment during the trip would be fun and variety is the spice of life...

I had been using Zagat as a price guide, however, having filled out their restaurant surveys before, prices are subjective based on each consumer's experience and memory of what the bill totaled. One of my biggest challenges has been figuring out what one restaurant costs versus another try and narrow down the choices. I will try www.viamichelin.com and see if the site proves more useful.

Thanks again.

[Bux]

I"ll probably be of little help in recommending specific places as I tend to bounce between the very casual bistros and the top places these days, so I hope I've at least been helpful in focusing your request here.

Au C'Amelot is very casual. It's excellent food, but there's no choice. Most nights there's only one set menu and the decor is almost absent.

Aux Lyonnais may also be too casual a bistro, but it does serve some truly excellent food.

I don't know about Carre des Feulliants. It's pretty fancy, but not so luxe. The food covers a lot a ground, assuming it hasn't changed and Dutournier's heritage is solidly rooted in the good food of the southwest of France.

I'm not sure why you're eschewing the brasseries. I don't know any that have really great food, but I like Vaudeville for oysters and simple food such as steak frites and andouillette (the French tripe sausage, not related to Louisiana sausage by that name).

[dlc]

As I have been following this thread, I have had some of the same qualms about suggestions as Bux. I was thinking back over the anniversary meals we have had in Paris and would like to suggest Benoit as a possibility for the big event.

[Girl415]

I apologize for not being able to better articulate what I am looking for. Having not been to Paris in fifteen plus years I am not able to provide examples of the type of restaurant I am looking for. Ideally I would like to find a restaurant that has excellent food, isn't too stuffy (I don't want to feel as if we need to whisper when we speak) and isn't too loud -- I know, that narrows it down from a thousand to several hundred... Perhaps something similar to Boulevard in San Franciso (if that reference is helpful).

I am currently thinking about La table du Lancaster, which I believe is the new restaurant of Michel Troisgros. Has anyone been there?

[Andy Lynes]

Aux Lyonnais may also be too casual a bistro, but it does serve some truly excellent food.

I'll second that. For what its worth, I'm starting to think about my 40th birthday trip to Paris (not till next January, but I'm allowed to dream) and at the moment I'm planning a meal at Aux Lyonnaise followed by one at Plaza Athennee. My guess is that Aux Lyonnaise will be a very tough act to follow.

[Bux]

Just a word about l'Epi Dupin. We had dinner in NY last night with Friends who had just been in Paris for a week. They were very disappointed by l'Epi Dupin. Although they had a couple of swell meals in Paris, they are most familiar and discerning about restaurants such as l'Epi Dupin, so I note it here as I did in another thread.

[tighe]

I went to Pre Catelan in September, and could hardly imagine a better place for a celebration dinner. Grand setting, quite formal, but not at the price point of a 3*. If you want to steer clear of haute cuisine though, it may not be the right place.

[Bux]

In addition, I would prefer a more traditional French meal to a Haute cuisine meal, though eating at one haute cuisine establishment during the trip would be fun and variety is the spice of life...

I am in full agreement that haute cuisine has it's place in life and is not what we want everyday, but I also sense that haute cusine is changing and that much of what we've thought of as haute cuisine has filtered down to become just restaurant cuisine. I also feel that French restaurant food is changing. Many moderately priced restaurants in Paris have menus that are not all that distinguishable from what I'd expect to find in NY, SF and surprisingly (for someone who remembers the 60's) in cities all over this country. The techniques are classic and French, but the styles are influenced by neighboring countries as well as Asian ones. Amid all this, there seems to be a revival of old fashioned rustic country food and an interest in preserving this French tradition. I think Ducasse's investment in Aux Lyonnaise is precisely of that mold. The retro bistros of the past decade are still continuing with Constant's cafe and they are a mix of old fashioned rustic and new lighter far with little fuss and brighter flavors in the international style. La Regalade for the rustic and offhand Eric Frechon's now closed restaurant is what comes to mind for the latter style. He's now at the Bristol making luxury menus again.

[Girl415]

My group has come full circle and we have decided to go for the big splurge. Assuming we can get a reservation, which of the followng restaurants should we go to for my 40th:

Taillevent

Grand Vefour

Guy Savoy

Le Meurice

Les Elysees du Vernet

Pierre Gagnaire

Jamin

Remember we are four girls ranging in age from 35-41. We are looking for the best combination of food and atmosphere.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

[fresh_a]

Aux Lyonnais is a great place, but nothing to do with the vastly superior three-star Restaurant du Plaza Athenée. Two different types of establishments. I would forget Chez Georges, which I have found very disappointing and touristy recently. Jamin is great! Just had a fantastic meal there not too long ago: charming establishment, excellent service, and simple creative cooking, as good as any two-star I've been to in Paris, and , to me, even more enjoyable as an over-all experience than Arpege...

[Bux]

I would eliminate Gagnaire unless all four of you are interested in very avant garde preparations that might not even appear as food to the average diner. The diner who goes to Gagnaire for the first time has to be prepared to risk not liking food that's far removed from the traditional.

[Andy Lynes]

Aux Lyonnais is a great place, but nothing to do with the vastly superior three-star Restaurant du Plaza Athenée.

Apart from the fact that Alain Ducasse has interests in both of course!

[Bux]

Aux Lyonnais is a great place, but nothing to do with the vastly superior three-star Restaurant du Plaza Athenée.

Apart from the fact that Alain Ducasse has interests in both of course!

Intellectually, it's an interesting point, but one should not assume he's had Ducasse's food by dining at Aux Lyonnaise.

[paulbrussel]

My group has come full circle and we have decided to go for the big splurge. Assuming we can get a reservation, which of the followng restaurants should we go to for my 40th:

Taillevent

Grand Vefour

Guy Savoy

Le Meurice

Les Elysees du Vernet

Pierre Gagnaire

Jamin

Remember we are four girls ranging in age from 35-41. We are looking for the best combination of food and atmosphere.

Advice would be greatly appreciated.

As said before, it mostly depends on your personal taste and expectation.

Gagnaire indeed is avant garde (the 2004 edition of GaultMillau guide even thinks he is going too far...).

Le Meurice has a beautiful dining room, although I think the most beautiful in Paris is that of Hotel Crillon; both are big dining rooms in classic, almost baroque style. Le Meurice has gotten good marks lately since a new chef arrived (I haven't eaten there since he arrived).

La Grand Véfour is nice too, but there is not a quiet, intimate table to get, and during lunch time full of tourists.

Le Carré des Feuillants seems to me personally the most interesting, since it is quite possible to have an intimate table, it has been re-decorated last year in a more modern style, but the food is a mixture of cuisine de terroir and very modern influences; besides, it is perhaps the best value for money when you take the 138 € menu.

Le Bristol is really a very large hotel dining room (and I wasn't impressed at all by its 60 € menu in 2002).

Since I haven't been to Taillevent, Savoy, Les Elysées and Jamin, I couldn't comment on those. But on eGullet many more experienced diners have commented on those very eloquently.

[Andy Lynes]

Intellectually, it's an interesting point, but one should not assume he's had Ducasse's food by dining at Aux Lyonnaise.

Indeed, especially considering Thierry de la Brosse is co-owner and must have his own input to the place. However, chef David Rathgeber has been involved in Ducasse's various restaurants for some while now, most recently at Spoon in New York, so some of the great man's magic might have rubbed off on him.

[Girl415]

Many thanks to everyone for their thoughts and suggestions. We have finalized our list and are now counting down the days until we leave.

Friday - Jamin

Saturday - Le Violon D'Ingres

Sunday - L'Atelier de Joel Rubuchon (Crazy for a group of 4, but we want to go anyway)

Monday - La Regalade

Tuesday - Taillevent (birthday dinner)

Thanks again for all the help!