ISO Chocolates in NYC

[matcohen]

I would like to purchase some chocolates (as opposed to cooking chocolate) in New York City.  I went to Fauchon and they said that their chocolates were imported once a week.  I have heard that chocolates must be very fresh to be good.  I have had longer dated chocolates (Godiva and some from Belgium) which taste like colored, flavored wax to me.

1) How long after creation can chocolate be eaten if it is to be in peak condition?

2) Where would you suggest that I purchase chocolate in New York City?

[Steve Klc]

You have heard correctly--handmade and artisinal chocolates--using the freshest and most natural ingredients--deteriorate rapidly and are best when purchased and eaten within days of manufacture.  At the moment, my highest recommendations are for chocolates from the masterful Jacques Torres (718.875.9772)

http://www.jacquestorres.com/jacquestorreschocolate.htm

and Pat Coston, the excellent pastry chef of Ilo restaurant in the Bryant Park Hotel (40 West 40th Street, NY or call  212.642.2255)  There's a nice blurb and picture of Pat's boxed chocolates in the October 2001 issue of Gourmet on page 76.  I've had alot of Pat's stuff and his taste and palate are impeccable. (And yes, you can buy the chocolates separately!)

In NYC I've also had very good chocolates from La Maison du Chocolat, Payard Patisserie and Richart--and also been disappointed, at times, with each of these three sources.  Of these three--only Francois Payard and his team produce, dip and enrobe chocolates on site.  

But don't forget mail order--I can wholeheartedly recommend Richard Donnelly in Santa Cruz, Michael Rechiutti in San Francisco and Larry Burdick in New Hampshire.

So, no matter where you live in the country, fresh artisinal chocolates are available next day, so walk right on past the pretty Godiva display in the mall and get online or make a phone call.  

It's not just a matter of freshness, though.  I'm including Richart and Maison du Chocolat on my list, though they are made ahead, at times deep frozen, and flown into the US, because the end product is still very, very good.

There are handmade, artisinal chocolates being produced in this country, that have gotten exposure in glossies, like Martha and Food & Wine, and are sold at upscale gourmet outlets like Dean & Deluca--that are either made with inferior brands of chocolate or not made skillfully enough--that I cannot recommend.

Commercial chocolates, like Godiva, Neuhaus, the other sweet Belgian and Swiss crap in the city and even once-legendary Fauchon (which is mostly private label stuff, produced by other manufacturers) often have preservatives, have been deep-frozen and flown over to the US, or have had their recipes altered to use ingredients that don't deteriorate so rapidly.  Ever wonder why fillings are so sweet in these chocolates? Don't settle for "colored, flavored wax."

I am also leery of any boxed chocolates where you cannot see the chocolate--it's size, shine and shape. (Shine, small size and fingerprint-free tend to be good tip-offs to quality). Avoid all these pretty packages and wrapped boxes as we approach the holidays--you can't open them to see how dull or cloudy the chocolates are and so much of it will taste old.

This is obviously a vast, subjective subject and one we'll return to often, I am sure.

(One caveat:  Fauchon in NYC has just hired an extremely talented pastry chef in August, Florian Bellanger, and it remains to be seen whether he'll create his own chocolates and bon bons in-house.)

(Edited by Steve Klc at 9:05 pm on Oct. 5, 2001)

[Bux]

Following that professional post, I'll have to be careful not to say much that makes my taste buds appear numb. I may even be justified in worrying that my questions appear stupid, but here goes.

Chocolate may mean one thing or different things to different people, but chocolates are something else and there are different kinds. I'm prepared for good arguments as stereotyping is always a sure way to get into trouble. I think of Belgian chocolates (and I think the Belgians refer to them as pralines) as filled with delicate butter creams and as having a very short shelf life. There are artisanal Belgian chocolates, factory made Belgian chocolates and way down the list there are factory chocolates made in the USA under license from a Belgian factory such as Godiva (look at the label, see where they're made). I think of French chocolate as a more intensely chocolate product stressing chocolate rather than filling. Bernachon in Lyon is a prime example. These have a geater shelf life as long as they're well kept. Of course the French and the Belgians make both sorts,  but the French also seem to use less cocoa butter. Bernachon's chocolates are often too intense to gobble. It's serious stuff. Perhaps it's a question of emphasis and possibly my own mistaken impression. The preference for one or the other may be a matter of taste.

Some of the best chocolates I've had have been Teuscher in Zurich. I've been pleased with the ones I've had here as well. A Belgian friend visiting the city once gave me two boxes of Belgian chocolates. They were excellent although I was told she wouldn't dare subject the best artisanal chocolates to the conditions of a flight. The Godiva chocolates were not the better of the two, but they were definitely a cut above the Godiva one buys here. I forget the other brand, but it was also well known here.

[Steve Klc]

Hi Bux--actually pralines and butter creams, though delicate when done well, tend to be examples of fillings that keep well and keep longer.  Alcohol-based fillings, too.  That's why you see them in all those crappy boxes of chocolate, regardless of origin.  Ganache fillings--more the province of the French--are the fillings that are more perishable due to the perishability of heavy cream.  But the French do pralines--mixtures of caramelized ground nut pastes--quite well, too.

Bux--you rightly hit on something else when you begin to try to delineate national styles--and corresponding individual palates and preferences.  To me, the Belgian/Swiss tends to be sweeter, by degree, all across the board--whether commercial or artisinal--and rely on more milk and white chocolate; the French (and some cool newer Spanish stuff) are much more interested in darker chocolates, that push more of the envelope and explore that darker edge of bitterness.  The French (and alot of Americans, like me, even want their milk chocolates to push the envelope--and approach 45% cacao content, rather than the more typical 30%)

The ideal--to a traditional French or French-influenced chocolatier--is to create something small, flavorful, yet subtle--where you almost have to search for the flavor, the infusion--and that stays in harmony with the, predominately, dark chocolate.  La Maison du Chocolat is the most-accesible example of this classic style for most people.

American chocolatiers that are French-influenced--which include everyone that I mentioned in my first post--are keeping the form, the size and the techniques--and beginning to push the boundaries of flavor--becoming less subtle and at times more assertive, where the flavor, the infusions, sometimes go out in front of the chocolate.  It might be passionfruit first--then chocolate in the back.  For the classic French--the goal would be for the passionfruit and the chocolate to be completely balanced.

I've had impeccably "enrobed" chocolates--the covering of the filling--from all countries--regardless of whether that covering was hand or machine made.  So this is one critical aspect.

How the covering relates and interacts with the filling, too, is another critical aspect.

Tough to generalize here--but since most of my experience with chocolate is French influenced, both in training, technique and palate--I don't think you can say the "chocolate" coating is more important to the French--when a good artisinal French-style chocolate aims for the thinnest wall, the thinnest covering, of the filling.  To my mind, that makes the filling the most important--by weight and as a vehicle for potential flavor--and often, French chocolatiers use the better, more expensive chocolates in their ganaches--and then enrobe all of them, regardless of filling, in a lesser expensive, though still quite fluid, chocolate.

Cocoa butter % used is very tough to figure out--but the only way you can get a thin wall is to use a couverture--that's a chocolate that has alot of cocoa butter in it.  Compare a French, dipped chocolate like La Maison du Chocolat--with the thinnest walls imagineable--with a thick walled "commercial" candy of any origin.  Which has more cocoa butter?  well, the thick walled one, even if coated in an inferior  chocolate (low cocoa butter %) since it is thick.  Which one is more skillful--and actually used a chocolate with a higher % of cocoa butter, a more expensive and "better" covering?  The Maison one.

The better questions might be to ask, regardless of origin, whether the filling and shell are in balance?  how do they interact with each other flavor-wise?  Do you enjoy eating a thin-walled vs. a thick-walled chocolate?  Once you have had superior examples of small, French-style chocolate--are you more or less satisfied with those chocolates, of any origin, that are large, thick-walled, and overly sweet?  And I know you don't mean this Bux, but gobbling chocolates is somewhat like chugging jug wine.  Both may have their place, sometime, but neither should be held out as the ideal.  Another analogy that we've explored elsewhere on eGullet might apply here--the difference between an espresso and a typical cup of brewed coffee--which is better? more satisfying?  Is a question like that even relevant?

The beauty and joy, when you start evaluating chocolates like this, is that you'll find a whole interesting world has just opened up where there are no definitive answers.

[Lesley C]

From what I saw on a recent trip to Belgium, the most reputable commercially made chocolates are Neuhaus. The best artisanal chocolates come from Wittamer in Brussels (I toured their pastry shop -- incredible). At Wittamer they sell pralines and creams separately. The creams have a shelf life of one week. I tried one 8 days after purchase and the interior was like Roquefort.

Some chocolates -- like a nougat Parisian or a straight praline -- have a long shelf life. Ganache has a pretty decent shelf life if the cream is boiled, but an egg-based ganache is only good for two weeks. And when I say shelf life, I mean cool shelf.  

The French make the best chocolates right now but the Belgians still have the big reputation (thanks to some brilliant advertising by Godiva in the 70's and 80's). Most Belgian bon bons, in my books, are awful: sweet, granular and moulded -- not cut or piped. Moulded chocolates are a no-brainer for real chocolatiers (I believe they are not allowed in competitions such as MOF). Also, when poorly executed, the walls, and base, are thick -- a huge faux pas for serious chocolatiers (thick walls on any chocolate can also be due to poor tempering).

What makes Bernachon chocolates so special is that, for the most part, they are made with their own couverture (rumour has it the Sharffen Berger guys worked there and stole all the secrets). Everyone else is buying from either Valrhona, Barry, Callebaut or other. But besides the couverture, the Bernachon's chocolates are classic and not as sophisticated as those of La Maison du Chocolat, Jean-Paul Hévin, or Michel Chaudun (I was not impressed by Christian Constant's chocolates).  

What makes French chocolates so good? Intensity of flavour, size (small), enrobage, quality of ganache, creativity (Belin in Albi may be the best for that). The Belgians are considered the masters of "pralines" but the French are the masters of "ganache." When well executed, both are superb.

[Steve Klc]

Lesley--anything of note going on in Montreal with regard to handmade chocolates?

[Lesley C]

The best chocolate in Montreal comes from a place called the Patisserie de Gascogne. Its chocolate department was opened by Jacques Bélanger in the eighties. Very good, but classic, and more into volume than innovation. Many of their departments (decor, mousse, glace and the like) were opened by MOFs, especially Bellouet and Bélanger. They now work quite a bit with Chevallot of Valrhona.The pastry is excellent but has suffered in quality with every store opening (they have 4). It's probably still the best pastry shop in Canada -- a notch lower than Payard, but considering the ground they cover, impressive.

Though in cooking the gap is now practically non-existant, when it comes to chocolate and pastry, we North Americans are still far behind the French.

[Bux]

And I know you don't mean this Bux, but gobbling chocolates is somewhat like chugging jug wine.

What I tried to express was that gobbling chocolate is like chugging wine (or some liquid). Actually few wines are made for chugging, but some are made for easy quaffing. Others derserve sipping, but can be chugged. Still others demand sipping. From my limited experience many good chocolates deserve the sort of tasting that is precluded by gobbling, but some French chocolates I've had are just too intense to gobble. They not only deserve, but demand slow appreciation. I'm weak on my definitions here, but some of the most intense chocoates I can remember are the simple palets from Bernachon, which I recall as being just chocolate. Perhaps these are not the ultimate example of the chocolatier's métier, but they seem like such a pure form that they stick in my impressionable mind. It's also been a while since I've tasted these. We were in Lyon this past winter, but didn't get a chance to do all the things we wanted to do.

My reference to cream and butter in chocolates and a resultant short shelf life was based on the (mis?)understanding that in the best Belgian and Swiss chocolates, the cream is fresh and uncooked and therefore more perishable. I could be very wrong on this. Keep talking. If I don't learn about chocolate, I'll at least learn enough to ask the right questions.

[Steve Klc]

Bux--the cream angle is mostly a moot point--it's either been heated during processing to homogenize and pasteurize it or is boiled then poured over the chopped chocolate during the preparation of a ganache.  Some chocolatiers make a ganache by adding room temp cream to already melted chocolate to save time; most, however, add cream just off the boil to solid, but chopped chocolate or pistoles.

This is not as easy as it sounds--but hey, this is a cooking forum--there are subtle skills and temperature keys at play all throughout the preparation of ganaches that would take too long to go into here.  But, just to give you an idea--to get a smooth ganache that does not break or go grainy--after you pour the boiling cream onto the chopped chocolate--you let it sit for awhile and don't touch it. Stirring it right away, too vigorously, stirring it haphazardly or heaven forbid, whipping it! results in a grainy or separated mess.

To do it properly, stirred gently and gradually from the center out with a whisk, like creating any culinary emulsion, is a delicate balancing act but the rewards of a ganache are so great to warrant it.

What causes problems, potentially, is the balance of fat (cocoa butter and cream) in the mixture--and this is why we add things like liquid invert sugars and butter to ganache recipes--to get the right balance of fat and water and to create a stable emulsion.  Every chocolate brand and every recipe will behave differently because their composition is different.

Only chocolate amateurs or food writers dumbing things down for you at home--think an excellent ganache is just cream and chocolate.  

What extends the shelf-life of chocolates with ganache are most commonly 1) deep freezing, 2) potassium sorbate or 3) specialized and expensive equipment--for instance, Jacques Torres is perhaps the only chocolatier in this country to use an imported vacuum mixer that draws all the air out of the "mix" and prevents oxidation.  He doesn't need to deep freeze and his stuff truly keeps for months.

There are lots of methods and techniques, what I've described is by no means inviolate.  But a true French "ganache" as Lesley and I are describing it--is not anything resembling that grainy American bastardization called "whipped ganache," promulgated mostly by several chocolate charlatans in this country.

(Edited by Steve Klc at 11:32 am on Oct. 7, 2001)

(Edited by Steve Klc at 11:34 am on Oct. 7, 2001)

[Lesley C]

Oh I think the palets from Bernachon would be the "ultimate example of the chocolatier's métier," as the couverture is made from scratch. Any other chocolaterie selling a palet would just be chopping up some commercial chocolate, tempering it, and moulding it into a disk emblazoned with their logo.

When it comes to cream and butter in chocolates, keep in mind that sugar and fat are conservation agents, so as Steve Klc said, some of these chocolates (sweet buttercreams) do have a prolonged shelf life. I would think that any smart -- responsible -- chocolatier would boil the cream used in chocolates (they might be using UHT cream anyway). Also, chocolates made with spices will deteriorate quickly (ferment) and if a chocolate is not completely sealed, air can get to the filling, and it will spoil.

Is there still a Le Notre in New York? We had one here, and sometimes their imported chocolates were iffy quality-wise.  

[Lesley C]

To add to Steve's post on ganaches:

Frédéric Bau (the chocolate God chef of Valrhona) aligns the making of a ganache to that of a mayonnaise. He says to add half the cream to the solid chopped chocolate (never melted), let it sit a few minutes, stir, and slowly incorporate the remaining hot cream to the mix in a thin stream stirring all the while with a spoon ( he shuns the whisk) to incorporate as little air as possible. According to Bau, a proper ganache with retain smooth tooth marks when bitten. Test this out next time you eat a chocolate. To make an even creamier ganache, many chocolatiers will add a few drops of product called Fralase, which breaks down sugars from a solid to liquid state. They put it in those cherry blossom chocolates as well to transform a solid fondant to a liquid within the chocolate's shell. Next we'll be divulging the Caramilk secret (do you have Caramilk chocolate bars in the States?)

[Steve Klc]

Lesley--LeNotre and Michel Richard, his pastry chef at the time, failed in New York City.  He hasn't been that relevant or influential in quite a while here, though I do think the series of books his school has put out recently are quite good.  The newest, actually, is a two volume work on Chocolates and Confectionery, which covers ganache and other chocolate work well and is accessible to home cooks, too. (JB Prince has them for ็ each, 800.473.0577)

And if I could disagree, most respectfully, with Lesley on the issue of sourcing, roasting, grinding cacaco beans and making one's own chocolate "couverture" from scratch as the "ultimate example of the chocolatier's metier."  Personally, I think that's overblown and a media distraction.  There are wonderfully made chocolate couvertures available from any number of high-end manufacturers--which allow the most finicky and particular chocolatier to mix, match and blend his own flavor and performance profile.  (At some of the chocolate conglomerates, like Barry-Callebaut, they have hundreds of bean varietals, couverture blends and profiles on file that can be combined for just the right effect--if you are a significant enough customer.)

Making chocolate, the ingredient, is not the metier of the chocolatier--though there is nothing wrong, nor inherently more valuable, with a chocolatier expressing his preference for certain beans or processing--and arranging for a company to manufacture it or produce it himself.

Making chocolate "products"--the bon bons and truffles and enrobed and dipped chocolate candies--is much more the "ultimate" metier of the chocolatier.  

[Bux]

This is not as easy as it sounds--but hey, this is a cooking forum

But one populated by eaters as well as cooks. Knowing it's hard, doesn't make it taste any worse. I find this sort of knowlege invaluable in appreciating food from a consumer's perspective. It's evident however, that many food writers, and worse yet editors, find this sort of information irrelevent or just uninteresting.

There is something inacessible on first bite about an intensely bitter solid French chocolate, that makes the eater sit up and take notice. It tends to command some respect, although inaccessibility is hardly the benchmark, or at least it shouldn't be, of "ultimate."

As long as chocolate remains an art, or perhaps as long as it is ingested orally, there will be some disagreement even among professionals about what's really the ultimate. Most of us will enjoy the research more than coming to any conclusion. I suppose that's the thought I've first heard applied to the question of which is better, Burgundy or Bordeaux. Personally I might choose a Rhone and maybe I should sut up before it's known that I've been opting for fruit desserts more often these days. ;)

Thanks for the info. Wish it came boxed with bonbons to illustrate every point.

[Lesley C]

Oh I agree Steve, couverture making is not part of being a chocolatier. But if ever I was to buy a plain chocolate bar or palet from a chocolatier it would be from Bernachon. And you have to admit, the fact that Bernachon continues to make their own couverture (on the premises no?) is impressive. There are certainly better pastry shops in Lyon but Bernachon has a nice way of preserving the past (a bit like Bocuse who has no interest, really, in changing his style of restaurant).

Concerning Le Notre: They also died a slow death here (is there still a shop in Dallas?) but in France they are still considered one of the top ten chocolatiers. The Club des Croqueurs de Chocolat rates Le Notre's Palais Or  "perfection."

(Edited by Lesley C at 1:11 pm on Oct. 7, 2001)

[Steve Klc]

I'm not sure Lesley--I don't have the most recent guide.  But I think that group holds out Linxe and La Maison du Chocolat as their ideal, overall--with 5.  Hevin, Dufoux and Ferber get 4 and then a bunch of my favorites get 3--Mulot, Belin, Mulhaupt, Chaudun.  I "thought" LeNotre was a 3, also, but I shouldn't speculate too far afield.  Perhaps someone has the guide?

And I am not always against a pastry chef or chocolatier taking on cumbersome tasks--tasks I think are better left to those manufacturers with serious equipment and a track record of superior end product.  I have argued elsewhere that this confuses the issue too often--why make your own puff in house when you can buy excellent frozen puff?

Perhaps the Bernachon story has been recycled too often and is affecting my judgement; you are correct that it's impressive--I'd add charming, as well.  I was just trying to say that it's just not as significant or even important in the larger scheme of things.

To mention Jacques Torres, again, I believe he's grinding his own almond pastes and pralines--because commercially available products have chemicals in them that he'd rather not inherit.  That's admirable--or for me, more admirable-- than doing it just for the sake of preserving the past.  I have not seen how he's doing it--but if it is anything like the way the Cluizels still do it in their factory in Damville--it's literally out of the "stone" age, with large rolling stone wheels grinding and squeezing and grinding and squeezing down to progressively smaller particles, measured in microns.

I don't mean to rant on this--but I think it is important to make these distinctions--and even our disagreeing by degree on the relative merits of certain things is not bad, as Bux has pointed out.  The average consumer gains by hearing this stuff and filtering it through their own sensory system.

Is a true, artisinal hand-dipped chocolate--a cube of ganache on the end of a fork, dipped and removed from a big vat of chocolate one at a time--inherently better than the same cube of ganache passed, like thousands of other cubes, along a giant conveyor belt and through an enrobing machine? Of course not--and frequently, it is inferior.  But that's what I mean about potentially confusing the issue for some--the couverture used and the palate behind the filling is what's paramount.

And I always thought chocolatiers molded and sold their own blocks and bars of chocolate simply as a way to project the "myth" a bit and make money.

[Lesley C]

Pastry chefs can buy as much as they want, praline, puff pastry, almond paste, chocolate. They can all follow the same recipes passed out at Barry and DGF seminars. They can all do stages with the best chefs. But in the end, you'll just end up with a bunch of fine chefs producing the same product. When you bite into a Bernachon chocolate bar it tastes different, and I say Bravo to that. I also used to enjoy walking around the back of the shop and seeing the ladies hand-dipping the chocolates. In ten years, there might not be anybody in those windows.

[Steve Klc]

There is a book I should recommend at this point, for anyone that has slogged their way through this thread and said to themselves--hey, I wonder how I could learn more about chocolatiers and the craft of chocolate making?  (Rather than how to make a ganache.)  It's called "Crafting the Culture and History of French Chocolate" by Susan Terrio, a professor of French and Anthropology at Georgetown University.  It is not a light read, but nonetheless a revealing and accessible look at the politics, passion and culture of chocolatiers. I wrote about it in the April 2001 issue of Food Arts.

(Paper, 313 pp., UC Press, Berkeley)

[artisanbaker]

This is a good thread. I had some Bernachon chocolates this week that a colleague brought back from the World Cup Lyon thing. There was as good as I remember.

[sarah o]

Candinas ChocolatierWonderful artisanal chocolate!

[confiseur]

.........coming back to this interesting thread what is the word on your side of the pond about Larry Burdick.........I rarely, if ever see his name mentioned when serious chocolatiers are mentioned in the US yet some of my Swiss friends rate him very highly and I respect their judgement..........just curious.......an unbiased opinion from anyone please?

[Wendy DeBord]

I just wanted to bump this thread back up and see if anyone is knowledgable on Burdicks chocolates. I've never tasted them, myself. But I have to agree that I've never really heard them mentioned among American professionals when their talking about really good chocolates.

Anyone?

[Stephanie Wallace]

After making an enormous effort to try chocolates from all of Paris' top tier chocolatiers a couple of weeks ago (details and pics coming soon), I am still as impressed as ever by Larry Burdick. I think he easily matches--possibly even exceeds--Linxe, Hevin and Chaudun in terms of quality. His skill in matching flavors with the correct chocolates is extraordinary. His balance in subtlety is wild. The infusions are fantastically delicate, pulling at your senses, but they are never impossible to detect.

All-in-all:

A++++ CHOCOLATIER HIGHLY RECCOMENDED; DEF BUY AGAIN

[Trishiad]

I ordered some Burdick's chocolates at Valentine's Day and although I thought they were quite good, I have other favorites. I loved the rustic truffles, was disappointed by the mice and enjoyed the palets even though they were stacked upon each other and scratched up. I love Garrison Confections, there are things I love about Recchuti, La Dolce V is pretty great and so is Woodhouse in Saint Helena. I am spoiled by California and our fresh handmade products. All opinion, nothing more.

[rraaflaub]

I just wanted to bump this thread back up and see if anyone is knowledgable on Burdicks chocolates. I've never tasted them, myself. But I have to agree that I've never really heard them mentioned among American professionals when their talking about really good chocolates.

Anyone?

←

I realize I'm pretty late on noticing this thread, but I don't think enough people know about Larry Burdick. He is very good, and makes excellent French style chocolates.

[jennahan]

I'm a novice to chocolate (always loved it, but didn't know much beyond the commercially available ones in the US), but I have discovered the most amazing chocolatier here in London. The name of the shop is L'Artisan du Chocolat, and they make some of the most unusual chocolates. They make chocolates in the French style (small, principally dark and intensely flavoured) and really push the boundaries in terms of flavorings. I tried a tobacco flavored chocolate which, though not being a smoker, actually found quite pleasant. They do a leather flavored one which wasn't available (I hear it is also surprisingly pleasant). Other flavours include licorice, banana and thyme, lapsong soochong ( ), ginger, jasmine (one of the most intensely flavored jasmine chocolates I've ever had). Heston Blumenthal has worked with them in terms of brainstorming flavours (tobacco and leather were his idea) and they are currently working with Monmouth Coffee to come up with a pure, rich, coffee flavoured chocolate. Good news for those in the states...they do mail order now!