Ice Cream Machines

[paulraphael]

10 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I've had three compressor ice cream makers.  I recommend the Cuisinart ICE-100.  I spin my ice cream in the ICE-100 for 15-20 minutes.

 

 

That's impressive. Much faster than I've seen reported elsewhere.

[paulraphael]

28 minutes ago, ccp900 said:

There is the whynter icm201sb that looks like a winner. I haven’t tried it but a review I saw that ran it side by side with the ice100 had it winning in speed of churn and lower iciness. It might have a bigger motor that’s probably why since it is 2.1 qts.  It is a vertical design so it uses a smaller footprint which always helps in the kitchen. Kitchen space is always a problem

 

Mitch (Weinoo) was just telling me about this machine. I'd suggest seeing if any reviewers report how much overrun it generates. The older, popular Whynter machine supposedly spun fast and made fluffy ice cream. If this machine is similar, make sure you're ok with that.

[ccp900]

3 hours ago, JoNorvelleWalker said:

 

I was not aware of the ICM201sb.  Try it and report back.

 

I am trying to get it but It does not exist where I am from.  Frustrating to tell you the truth

[weinoo]

7 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

Mitch (Weinoo) was just telling me about this machine. I'd suggest seeing if any reviewers report how much overrun it generates. The older, popular Whynter machine supposedly spun fast and made fluffy ice cream. If this machine is similar, make sure you're ok with that.

 

Yes, indeed.  There are a number of reviews out there, certainly on the older Whynter machines. I am basically interested in the newest Whynter because of it's smaller footprint and the fact that it will make 2 quarts; even if it won't make 2 quarts, it'll make more than 1.

 

Quote

The dasher on the Whynter ICM-200LS Stainless Steel Ice Cream Maker rotates at 25 rpm, resulting in overrun of about 8%. This is the lowest of the three machines and produces ice cream that is slightly heavier and denser than that produced by the Cuisinart ICE-100 and the Breville BCI600XL. 

 

I would think there might be some ice cream geeks who will love those reviews linked above, since they contain shit like this:

 

Quote

To test the three machines, 3 ice cream mixes were formulated to contain 54.9% total solids, 23.3% milk fat, 10.8% milk solids-not-fat (the lactose, proteins, minerals, water-soluble vitamins, enzymes, and some minor constituents), 16.3% sucrose, and 4.4% egg yolks. All mixes contained fresh cream, fresh milk, skimmed milk powder, sucrose, and egg yolk solids. All mixes were heated to 72°C (161°F), held at that temperature for 25 minutes, cooled, and aged overnight at 4°C (39°F). Mix composition was kept constant for all 3 mixes but mix volume varied from 700 ml (0.74 quarts) for the Breville BCI600XL Smart Scoop Ice Cream Maker and the Cuisinart ICE-100 Compressor Ice Cream and Gelato Maker, to 900 ml (0.95 quarts) for the Whynter ICM-200LS Stainless Steel Ice Cream Maker. Results from the 3 tests can be seen in section 5.2 of this review.

 

Edited July 29, 2020 by weinoo (log)

[teonzo]

14 hours ago, paulraphael said:

I've never had ice cream made with raw milk, but have hesitations about the whole idea, separate from the safety-related ones. 

 

Uncooked milk proteins behave very differently in an ice cream than cooked ones. When the proteins are denatured by  the right degree of cooking, they take on new properties that are helpful in terms of texture and emulsification.

 

I know the theory behind ice-cream. But I talk from first hand experience. The 2 times I made fiordilatte with raw milk/cream were by far the best ones ever. Absolutely no troubles about texture.

 

 

 

14 hours ago, paulraphael said:

Meanwhile, anyone could tell the difference by tasting the milk and cream straight. The reasons are that the sugar overpowers the subtle dairy flavors, and that our sense of taste is just less sensitive to cold things (although in this case, we couldn't even taste the difference when tasting the melted ice cream). 

 

They did a similar experiment at Serious Eats and came to the same conclusion.

 

We did a blind test and people recognized the difference between raw, no cooking from pasteurized, cooking from pasteurized. Probably we are starting from different stuff, every professional I know that worked in the USA said that milk and cream are noticeably different there.

 

 

 

Teo

 

[paulraphael]

6 minutes ago, teonzo said:

 

I know the theory behind ice-cream. But I talk from first hand experience. The 2 times I made fiordilatte with raw milk/cream were by far the best ones ever. Absolutely no troubles about texture.

 

 

 

 

We did a blind test and people recognized the difference between raw, no cooking from pasteurized, cooking from pasteurized. Probably we are starting from different stuff, every professional I know that worked in the USA said that milk and cream are noticeably different there.

 

 

 

Teo

 

 

That's certainly interesting. I'd like to try it someday. It's a mostly moot point in the US; you can't even buy raw milk here unless you're a member of a farm co-op that produces it. 

 

Jeni's Splendid used to buy and process raw milk; they stopped after they found the sanitation requirements were just too difficult. They had to shut down and recall their product twice after finding lysteria in the kitchen. 

[weinoo]

I’m sure @teonzo would love to host us to try the raw milk products in the Veneto!

 

And we also see some Veroneses while we are at it!

[paulraphael]

3 hours ago, weinoo said:

I’m sure @teonzo would love to host us to try the raw milk products in the Veneto!

 

And we also see some Veroneses while we are at it!

 

I'm in.

[teonzo]

Unfortunately now I'm facing some personal troubles, so I can't be a good host.
When I'll open my own pastry shop I'll be sure to write a post here, so any eGulleter visiting Venice will gladly be my guest.

But I'll have to find a new source for raw milk. We have some raw milk dispensers around here. They are a wood box on the side of a street/square. You put your money, open a small door with a nozzle, put your bottle under the nozzle, press a button and get the raw milk you paid for. After you finished you close the door, so a vapor jet will sanitize the nozzle and everything inside the door after each use. The farmer (owner of the dispenser) goes every evening to collect the remaining (day old) milk and add the new one.
A month ago I got 2 liters of milk, since I wanted to make some hand churned butter made from raw milk (you know, when you wake up with a strong need and decide to fix it). I was unable to skim the milk to get the cream. Same the 2 times I tried again. Don't know what the hell they changed, but this isn't the raw milk I'm used to. When I was a child one of my duties was to go to our neighbour and buy 1 liter of raw milk each evening (they had a farm with cows and so on), then help my grandmother churning butter. Another piece of my youth that's gone with industrialization.

 

 

Teo

 

[weinoo]

I had to go to the farm and milk the cows.

No wait, that was my grandmother.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

Thinking yogurt and cheese, I tried to buy raw goat milk from several goat farms near us in the country.   By telephone.     I was met with panicky sounding voices repeating that "NO, NO, NO WE DON'T SELL GOAT MILK!   NEVER.    EVER!!! "     Strong regulation in California.    

Edited July 29, 2020 by Margaret Pilgrim (log)

[Yiannos]

I'm in California just outside of Sacramento, and I believe at least a couple of the natural food stores around here sell raw milk. We are among a handful of states that allow retail sales, according to a quick search. Have never tried it but this site always has a way of piquing my curiosity...

[mgaretz]

3 hours ago, Margaret Pilgrim said:

Thinking yogurt and cheese, I tried to buy raw goat milk from several goat farms near us in the country.   By telephone.     I was met with panicky sounding voices repeating that "NO, NO, NO WE DON'T SELL GOAT MILK!   NEVER.    EVER!!! "     Strong regulation in California.    

 

 

I saw goat milk the other day in Sprouts.

[Margaret Pilgrim]

41 minutes ago, mgaretz said:

 

I saw goat milk the other day in Sprouts.

Yes, thanks.  I see Meyenberg brand but I believe it is pasteurized.    I was hoping for raw.

[paulraphael]

3 hours ago, Yiannos said:

I'm in California just outside of Sacramento, and I believe at least a couple of the natural food stores around here sell raw milk. We are among a handful of states that allow retail sales, according to a quick search. Have never tried it but this site always has a way of piquing my curiosity...

 

I stand corrected. I thought law was federal but it's state by state (in NY raw milk can be sold by the farm that produces it). Here's list by state.

 

Please be careful if you decide to work with raw dairy, especially if you're serving anyone who's immune-compromised. This means labelling everything with dates and checking the temperature of your fridge at the location where you'll be storing it. 

[weinoo]

I want to thank @paulraphael et al. for learning me the "draw" temperature of ice cream. Something I really never knew or if I knew, never thought about. 

 

Yesterday's ice cream experiments led me to stop the Lello when I first saw what looked like ice cream in the machine - this took place after a mere 11 minutes of spinning (I was only doing a pint).  And It was already at a proper draw temperature, so I drew it.

 

It appears that the Lello will make a pint of ice cream in well under 15 minutes. Of course, it was well-chilled (like 6 hours) from the fridge. And everything else was icy cold - I give the Lello about a 15 to 20 minute cool down.

 

Interesting. You CAN teach an old dog new tricks.

[chromedome]

45 minutes ago, weinoo said:

Interesting. You CAN teach an old dog new tricks.

 

...but only if said dog is willing to listen.

[weinoo]

Well, when the treats are ice cream...

[paulraphael]

That's great to know, Mitch. I'd be curious to hear your impressions of ice cream drawn at 11 minutes vs. 20, or whatever you were doing. 

 

It isn't guaranteed that the ice cream will be better if you draw it earlier. It's just highly likely that if your machine gets it to that temperature faster than some other machine, you'll see better texture with the fast machine. I think it's safe to say that -5C is a good maximum draw temperature. But I don't think there's harm churning a little longer, if it doesn't cause problems (like making butter!)  It's possible that whether you get better or worse results by going longer will depend on how cold your hardening cabinet is (average home freezer? Extra-cold home freezer? Blast chiller?)

 

One thing to consider: deciding on a consistent draw temperature helps you make your recipes more consistent ... you hope to see them with roughly the same consistency at that temperature. 

[weinoo]

I have a bottom drawer freezer - I don't know if that helps, but I do have it set to -3F...I still like to let the ice cream harden for a good 4 hours.

 

The actual harm I can see letting the machine run longer once the mix has turned to ice cream is literally burning out the motor.

 

This ice cream had some of the best texture of ice cream I've made - probably making only a pint helps the machine as well.

 

[paulraphael]

Making only a pint almost certainly let it freeze faster, too.

[ccp900]

15 hours ago, weinoo said:

I have a bottom drawer freezer - I don't know if that helps, but I do have it set to -3F...I still like to let the ice cream harden for a good 4 hours.

 

The actual harm I can see letting the machine run longer once the mix has turned to ice cream is literally burning out the motor.

 

This ice cream had some of the best texture of ice cream I've made - probably making only a pint helps the machine as well.

 

This would depend on the machine. I’ve actually drawn at -11C with the cuisinart ice 100 granted I only loaded around 600g of mix but the motor was strong enough that it didn’t harm the machine.  Your mileage may vary though so pls don’t take this as a recommendation to copy.  Formulation is also a big factor here, if you have a lot of freezing point depressing ingredients you can run it to -11C but if not then your motor can break because the ice cream will be very hard in higher temps.

 

i drew my last 2 batches at -7 to -8C. I wanted a little more overrun hence I let it go a couple more minutes. Is it a tad icier? Maybe but it wasn’t bad as to distract from the flavor and enjoyment so I am good with that.  It is a balance at the end of the day unless you spring for the big boys like emery Thompson or the Italian brands then you can have your cake and eat it too....in this case ice cream.....

Edited August 11, 2020 by ccp900 (log)

[ccp900]

I was looking at a nemox crea 3k and nemox crea 5k. These things are expensive little buggers!!!!!
 

i wanted to have a commercial level maker for very small batches.  The cost is almost prohibitive!!  Where I am at, the 3k touch is a whopping 4,600 USD while the 5k is at 7,000usd

 

theres a cheaper seller but they aren’t the official distributor....they’re selling around 800-1000 usd cheaper.  Even at that price it is quite expensive......I can buy it but I’m second guessing lol.

 

will it make better ice cream, yes I think so. Why do I want to buy it? Maybe I can sell a pint here and there but I am  not really pushing this to be a business but I do want to see how it fares in the open market.....

 

there is no seller of musso here otherwise I might have gone musso 5030 but with the import tax that thing will end up to be 2,000 to 3,000 usd I bet

 

i so envy you guys there in the US for Amazon stuff

Edited August 14, 2020 by ccp900 (log)

[paulraphael]

On 8/14/2020 at 3:58 AM, ccp900 said:

will it make better ice cream, yes I think so.

 

Maybe. That can be a tough question. With countertop commercial machines it's hard to know if the ice cream quality will really inch in the direction of the big dogs (full-size Carpigiani machines, etc.) or if you're mostly buying robustness. 

 

I've been curious about machines like this but haven't had much luck finding reliable reviews. I assume they're made for a niche market, like very small restaurants or cafés that want to make their own, but at a fairly low volume.

[ccp900]

12 hours ago, paulraphael said:

 

Maybe. That can be a tough question. With countertop commercial machines it's hard to know if the ice cream quality will really inch in the direction of the big dogs (full-size Carpigiani machines, etc.) or if you're mostly buying robustness. 

 

I've been curious about machines like this but haven't had much luck finding reliable reviews. I assume they're made for a niche market, like very small restaurants or cafés that want to make their own, but at a fairly low volume.

Ruben has one in his site he was using the nemox crea 5k. Bigger brother of the 3k.

 

I want a Musso 4080:at least or better the 5030.