Spice Market

[jogoode]

On the other hand, Jewel Bako uses top notch ingredients all the time and it doesn't have a three star rating.

Jewel Bako is, somehow, a $25 and Under.

[SobaAddict70]

And another thing:

I don't think that the "complexity" argument, an old chestnut on eGullet, even needs to enter the picture at least with relation to Hearth. Can't simplicity compete against complexity? Does complexity need to necessarily win out everytime?

Sometimes a still life needs to be appreciated for what it is, as opposed to a comparing it to a da Vinci or a Picasso.

Getting back to the thread (and after having read the review -- note that when I initially posted the preview post I skimmed it briefly), a thought struck me this morning as I was on the subway train: you could perhaps explain the rating and the review if you think, as many people have noted before, that the Times is shifting its focus to a younger, hipper crowd than before. There has been a slightly noticeable shift in attitude, writing selections, writing style and authors over the past few years that seems to suggest that the paper (or at least some parts such as the Styles section) is trying to make itself more relevant to parts of its audience and the generation that part represents.

I don't know about you, but the review (apart from being a rubber stamp for JG's latest venture) practically screamed out "Generation X hype" to me.

Soba

[Pumpkin Lover]

Don't mean to interrupt the convo, but: I fell for the reviews of Spice Market, and made a reservation for me and my sister. We're poor. I know that, as a poor person, I shouldn't attempt to eat at places like these yet (places associated with big names, etc.... you know what I'm sayin'), but I couldn't help myself. What dishes would you guys suggest for poor people like me? Should I stick to cocktails and appetizers? Try out some of the entrées? Hesser listed some of the entrées as being $6. Is this for real, or are they just really tiny? Should I plan to buy a falafel afterwards?

I guess, for my sister and I, we'd like to stick to the $50 and under range. If this is impossible at SM... well then, we're screwed.

[Daniel]

I dont know i havent been. But chances are this place is going to be expensive. This place is well hyped, has a multi million dollar over head, and has a famous duo hard at work. What about this place particularly appeals to you. Is it the experience or the food. Because perhaps someone could suggest something in the same genre, which would be less expensive and better tasting.

[Pumpkin Lover]

What about this place particularly appeals to you. Is it the experience or the food. Because perhaps someone could suggest something in the same genre, which would be less expensive and better tasting.

I dunno, actually. I mean, the food sounds really good, but I know I could go to Chinatown and eat at Jaya, or something like that. I realize it's probably a dumb decision to try and not spend too much money, but... oh, I don't know. I've never been to a hip place while it's still new--never could afford it. Perhaps I'm just trying too hard? Blarg.

[SobaAddict70]

Spend a little, live a little is the motto I would use.

Probably not applicable or appropriate in your situation but on some level -- perhaps in the not too distant future -- you might be able to.

Many of the menu selections in the review sound interesting. Whether they're actually GOOD or well worth getting is another story. Fwiw, I'd sooner trust the opinions of some on this board than...well, you get my drift.

Soba

[Bux]

I've been to restaurants I couldn't afford and with that in mind, very small disatisfactions have ruined evenings. There's good wisdom in the saying that if you have to ask the price, you can't afford to eat there.

If you have a need to be where it's hip when it's hip, you should go with the knowledge that the hip rarely care about the food at all and even less about value.

[Daniel]

Well said!

[Pumpkin Lover]

If you have a need to be where it's hip when it's hip, you should go with the knowledge that the hip rarely care about the food at all and even less about value.

Too true, man. That kind of thinking led me to believe, in my first post about all this, that the servings would be skimpy anyway.

Looking back at the NY Times review, I realize that the drinks, wings, and Thai jewel dessert were the dishes/drinks that really caught my eye. Worse comes to worse, my sister and I will go there to get wasted and eat wings. Not that far a departure from my life now, drinks and wings.

[Daniel]

That is pretty funny stuff. I often order take out from places. I dont know how super hip this place is, but i would even see if you could get an order of wings to go.

[Foodguy]

Spice Market Dinner tonight.

My wife made reservations at Spice Market a few weeks ago for today and I have been looking forward to it despite the somewhat mix set of reviews that have been posted on the board. Also, I have always enjoyed Ms. Hesser's writings in the Times magazine and thought that she can not be that off. I also figured she would be an ideal woman (or at least second most ideal aftermy beautiful wife): cute and writes about food! I was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt as to the recent controversy regarding her review and was eager to check it out myself.

I must say that I was slightly dispointed in the experience and seriously have doubts regarding her credibility given her 3 star rating. The room was nice, but in that overly hyped, psuedo Asian, let's try and recall the world of Suzie Wong kinda way that one sees at places like Tao or Buddakkan (Philly). The service was very good - everyone was polite and efficient. If anything they were overly efficient- for example the table starter of mini-papdams came with a very tasty sambal like sauce that we would have liked to have kept for the meal, but was wisked away so quickly that we never got a chance to ask them to leave it.

On to the food, there were three of us there (served family style) and so our meal consisted of:

Apps:

Thai Chicken Wings - a very good dish, maybe the best of the night. Had a very good kick

Vietnamese spring rolls - desspite Mrs. Hesser's raving, very bland and slightly greasy

Black pepper shrimp - a very good flavor combination, but very little shrimp

Main courses:

Vietnamese chicken curry - very average, but tastiest main course

Monkfish - not so great, coconut crusted with a Tamarind sauce, but verged on something that could have come from Mrs. Paul's

Short ribs - again ok, very fatty and tender, which I normally like, but this was really fatty and really mushy

Drinks: 3 mixed drinks; again ok, no reason to run out there

We had no dessert

Total damage: ~$150

Overall, sort of cool vibe - the downstairs lounge seemed like a good place to meet for a drink, the service was good, the food was not worth the price (and I thought the portions were fairly small).

Having lived in Asia, I would say that this version of street food can not compare with the real thing

Edited March 26, 2004 by Foodguy (log)

[tan319]

Today, Manhattan User's Guide asks Hesser, Why?

(Click on "Weekend Pleasures" and scroll to the bottom.)

That's a weird one.

Feel kind of bad for her.

[Pan]

Today, Manhattan User's Guide asks Hesser, Why?

(Click on "Weekend Pleasures" and scroll to the bottom.)

That's a weird one.

Feel kind of bad for her.

Why do you feel bad for her?

[Pan]

What struck me most about Hesser's review is that she described a bunch of things that sounded like stuff I've had in inexpensive Chinese, Thai, Vietnamese, etc. restaurants, but she never seemed to explain what was so special about them at Spice Market and I almost felt like she was asking her readers to accept the truth of the assertion that they were special on faith. Granted that it's hard to describe what it is that makes a dish great, but it would be wonderful if a food critic did that for us. Do any of you find my reaction unjustified by the language in the review?

Edited March 26, 2004 by Pan (log)

[jogoode]

That's a very interesting take, Pan. I agree.

[tan319]

Today, Manhattan User's Guide asks Hesser, Why?

(Click on "Weekend Pleasures" and scroll to the bottom.)

That's a weird one.

Feel kind of bad for her.

Why do you feel bad for her?

Because I think she's going to get a raft of shit for it, and even though the NYTimes position is one of the heaviest ones in the country (IMO), I don't think she was prepared for all of the artillery fire this has brought down.

The J-G-V connection was pretty obvious to a lot of people in here, I wasn't aware of it but she probably should have thought about it, it doesn't make her look very good.

And that mention in MUG just highlighted the whole mess. On top of that Eurotrashblog thing.

Just made me squirm a bit.

[ghostrider]

"Artillery fire?"

A rather funny coal-raking in one of a hundred thousand blogs + a tiny paragraph buried at the bottom of a page on Weekend Pleasures in whatever this Manhattan User's Guide thing is = artillery fire?

I understand this world a little less every day, I fear.

Though I suspect that all this will only help Ms. Hesser's career.

[tan319]

"Artillery fire?"

A rather funny coal-raking in one of a hundred thousand blogs + a tiny paragraph buried at the bottom of a page on Weekend Pleasures in whatever this Manhattan User's Guide thing is = artillery fire?

I understand this world a little less every day, I fear.

Though I suspect that all this will only help Ms. Hesser's career.

well, she's kind of getting it a bit in here too, don'cha think?

A lot of people read this stuff in here, it get's around, and a helluva lot of of people read the times.

Don't get me wrong, she made the bed, the whole lot, but, I have a bit of compassion in me, blah,blah.

I loved the blog, BTW.

I understand this world a little less every day,  I fear.  :sad

Me too...

[bloviatrix]

Manahttan User's Guide reports further on the Hesser review.

Here it is. Scroll all the way down.

[jogoode]

I don't think she was prepared for all of the artillery fire this has brought down.

She's being dealing with some pretty harsh criticism ever since Mr. Latte came to the pages of the Times Mag. I think she's used to it -- and perhaps bored by it at this point. (David Leite gets to the bottom of Hesser bashing.)

[Suzanne F]

So all of you who have questioned the reasoning behind Hesser's review have eaten at Spice Market many times, right? If not, do you really have a right to question her critique?

And on reflection, that "tousled-hair" opening sound to me uncomfortably like Ruth Reichl. Gah.

Hesser's review told me what I wanted to know -- as did Cuozzo's, with his "'blah blah blah,' the waitress chirped." Now was that any better?

Carry on. I'm off to Jim Dixon territory for a few days.

edited for errors of grammar, and one important word.

Edited March 26, 2004 by Suzanne F (log)

[Fat Guy]

So all of you who have questioned the reasoning behind Hesser's review have eaten at Spice Market many times, right? If not, do you really have a right to question her critique?

What does the failure to mention Kunz have to do with eating at the restaurant? What does pointing out the sycophantic, obsequious tone of the review have to do with eating at the restaurant? To review a restaurant or make substantive comments about the quality of the food served there, you need to go to the restaurant. To critique a piece of writing, you need to read that piece of writing and evaluate it on its own terms and in its media context. We're engaging in media criticism here.

[Bux]

So all of you who have questioned the reasoning behind Hesser's review have eaten at Spice Market many times, right? If not, do you really have a right to question her critique?

It would have been good to have some reference to those things that you feel were unfairly said. The thing about restaurant reviews is that by and large, they're written precisely for people who have not been to the restaurant being revieweds, so who better to review the review than someone who hasn't been there. The review left me puzzled, and less eager to dine at Spice Market than I was before I read it. That's peculiar for a three star review.

[Pan]

So all of you who have questioned the reasoning behind Hesser's review have eaten at Spice Market many times, right?  If not, do you really have a right to question her critique?

What does the failure to mention Kunz have to do with eating at the restaurant? What does pointing out the sycophantic, obsequious tone of the review have to do with eating at the restaurant? To review a restaurant or make substantive comments about the quality of the food served there, you need to go to the restaurant. To critique a piece of writing, you need to read that piece of writing and evaluate it on its own terms and in its media context. We're engaging in media criticism here.

Indeed. And what does questioning whether Hesser explained what makes the food at Spice Market special compared to seemingly similar items I've had at inexpensive restaurants have to do with whether I've eaten at Spice Market?

[SobaAddict70]

Indeed. And what does questioning whether Hesser explained what makes the food at Spice Market special compared to seemingly similar items I've had at inexpensive restaurants have to do with whether I've eaten at Spice Market?

The fact that you missed out on a Vongrichten fantasy?

All you need is Mr. Roarke and Tattoo, and you're all set.

Soba