Sichuan Food

[Carlovski]

Does anyone know of any restaurants specialising in Sichuan cuisine, or chinese in general with a decent selection of Sichuan dishes?

I've been reading the descriptions of Grand Sichuan in the New York thread, and it's making me hungry.

[Jon Tseng]

No.

Yes, I agree, it is FLIPPING annoying. Market opportunity anyone??? (especially given how much english like spicy food)

some cantonese places might do so sichuanese dishes. Have had mapo tofu and strange-flavour (or fish flavour, can't remember) pork in this country - done proper with tingly sichuan peppers etc.

cheerio

J

[MobyP]

Did I read that the sichuan peppercorn, being a member of the citrus family (??!!?), has been made illegal in the states for import, and their supplies are about to run out?

Also, fmi, could anyone give a basic run down of the entire culinary history of China over the last 3000 years, taking into account the socio-theatrical influences of Beijing Opera, and the proliferation of well-made hats? Is the difference between Cantonese and Sichuan purely regional, or is it also class-based? Is, or was there a Royal cuisine? Excuse ignorance.

[Carlovski]

My knowledge of the cuisine is pretty much limited to reading Sicuhan cookery by Fuschia dunlop, along with numerous introductions to regional cooking in chinese cookbooks.

It is correct that the sichuan peppercorn is banned in the US - it is thought to be a carrier of a disease called citrus canker (Can't lose all those Florida oranges!) There is a very extensive thread on the subject somewhere.

As far as I am understand, there is a royal/banquet cuisine in sichuan cookery, which is more refined, and makes a greater use of ingredients from outside the region.

I have seen the odd reasonable interpretation of sichuan dishes in the better restaurants, the odd gong bao chicken and quite a few 'Fish Fragrant' dishes but normally Sichuan style dishes in UK chinese restaurants/takeaways appear to be covered in sweet and sour sauce, jacked up with a spoon or two of chilli powder.

I'd like to be able to try a bit of the authentic stuff though. I think the closest I have come was a reasonable version of something like Pock Marked Mother Chen Beancurd at an all you can eat chinese buffet place in Milton Keynes (I was on a training course)!

Anyone been there? It's very strange, they have at least 50 different dishes, but the quality is actually quite good. They had about 6 or 7 beancurd dishes, and a fair few seafood dishes which I approved of, and one of those hotplate bar things where you pick your ingredients, and they cook it for you. Not bad for about £13. I'd stay clear of the Sushi though.

[Jon Tseng]

Sichuan also has its riffs on street food/snacks/dumpling joints. Sort of like dim sum, but much less known

There are places in Chengdu where you go in and order a set menu of 15-20 little dishes. very well worth it

J

[Carlovski]

So is that a complete strike out for Sichuan food in the UK?

[MobyP]

Has anyone read Sichuan Cookery by Fuchsia Dunlop?

Maybe we need to do it ourselves.

[Carlovski - my sincere apologies. I just reread the thread, and saw that you'd mentioned the Dunlop book above. So, the stupid idiot award goes to....]

[John Whiting]

Hunan in Pimlico serves a closely related cuisine. It's been brilliant when I've been there, though Fuchsia, who first recommended it to me, says it's reported to have become a bit uneven.

[circeplum]

hunan has been a huge favourite of mine, one of the few restaurants in london i go back to time and time again.

however, my past couple of meals here (the leave-it-to-mr-peng specials) have seemed a little tired and formulaic, like they're resting on their laurels a bit.

having said that, if you've never been, it's leagues ahead of most of the 'chinese' operations about. and the tea and camphor smoked duck is definitely worth the price of admission.

x

[oenomania]

I happened to run into Fuchsia Dunlop today and she said she was not particularly aware of any Sichuan restaurants one would recommend in London. Anyway I pointed out to her that there is this thread...

[Ian]

Fuchsia is quite correct. The last one I went to was in Paris, which is only 2 hours and 35 minutes away from London via Eurostar :-)

All the best,

Edited February 20, 2004 by Ian (log)

[Jon Tseng]

If anyone sees fuschia ask her when shes going to open her restaurant

i could kill for some dan dan mian right now

and don't get me started on the dumplings...

J

[Suzi Edwards]

I can report that Waterland on Upper Street serves some horrible food under the guise of being "sichuan"

Maybe we need to widen this thread a bit. I am constantly disappointed by Chinese food. I always have high hopes and they end up being drowned in a sea of black bean sauce. The only place i like is Hakksan. I know I need to go to Hunan, but really, where else serves really good chinese food?

[MobyP]

If anyone sees fuschia ask her when shes going to open her restaurant

i could kill for some dan dan mian right now

and don't get me started on the dumplings...

Preach it, baby! Preach it!

[Adrian York]

Maybe there should be a seperate Mr Peng thread. Is he the only f-o-h person to sport an orange turtleneck married with a cricket sweater? His best line is, "have you had enough? Guilty or not guilty?" The nosh is however v. good with interesting use of chillies.

Edited March 7, 2004 by Adrian York (log)

[Carlovski]

Could this place be at least a partial answer?

[origamicrane]

Have you guys checked out Chinese Experience on Shaftesbury avenue?

http://www.chineseexperience.com/general.htm

I think its pretty good as they have some interesting dishes and little of that run of the mill pseudo-chinese stuff.

Been there twice for dinner and the things i really like are the

Peking ravioli in chilli sauce and the Braised organic pork belly in five spice

they also have dan dan mein too.

next time I go down I'll write a review.

Edited June 13, 2005 by origamicrane (log)

[Jon Tseng]

Yes

Good overall standard

A number non-cantonesey dim sum things - bread pockets, baozi and the like. chef a southerner but claims to have worked on the mainland

Killer xiaolongbao

A cut above the Chinatown mob (for the moment at least!).

J

[Ian]

Hi guys,

I have found a restaurant serving genuine Sichuanese food. I took Fuchsia Dunlop to it a wee while ago and she told me she was impressed. They serve Gong Po Chicken, Ma Po Tofu, Double-cooked Pork and other dishes the authentic way.

The restaurant's details:

Blue Thames

Dolphin House

Riverside West

The Boulevard

Smuggler's Way

Wandsworth

London

SW18 1DE

Tel: 020 8874 9878, 020 8871 3881

Fax: 020 8877 0693

If you are travelling by public transport, get the train from London Waterloo to Wandsworth Town. The restaurant is 5 minutes walk. It's a large, modern restaurant set by the river.

Their current main menu is very westernised and full of Cantonese dishes so the best thing is to call ahead and speak to the owner, Helen Li.

All the best,

--

Ian

[GeoffC]

A number of good points have been made about Szechwan (Sichuan) food; it is truly fabulous when done properly, although like most cuisines dangerous in the wrong hands trust me you can quite easily have too much fish flavoured sauce.

Two examples of the right hands spring to mind, one, inappropriately enough for a UK board, is Z&Y which used to be Sam Lok’s on Jackson Street in San Francisco, a mere two weeks ago I feasted on wontons in chillies, pot stickers (sorry but I like pot stickers authentic or not), twice cooked pork, lamb stew (better by far in actuality than in translation) and a dish of shredded eel with vermicelli topped with whole Chillies that turned out to be a great big bowl of elvers (so again better in translation), with a carafe of red under $50, although I appreciate more expensive if you include the ten hour flight in each direction.

Closer to hand, and a place a lot of people seem to be heading in the next two weeks, Edinburgh has a fabulous Szechwan restaurant called Szechwan house (hence my confusion with the correct spelling).

Dismissed out of hand by Scotland’s List food guide because the food is spicy and the staff don’t have Scottish as a first language – that’s bad how? - The chef is indeed royal banquet trained, and is brilliant as is his wife (?) who does front of house; she’s unflappable and very sweet. Thye do a roaring trade in Chinese coach parties so the air is always thick with smoke and Szechuanese chat, looks like the set menu for a table of eight is a big fish, some spicy aubergines and lots of bok choi. On a good night it’s as far away from Edinburgh as you can get and still be next door to the Cameo cinema. There is of course the special menu written in Chinese but I’ve yet to convince the staff I’m ready for that (my guess is it says ‘big fish and spicy aubergines, minimum order eight people’).

The general menu contains such gems as ‘Won Ton soup Szechwan style’ get a good chicken stock, a few wontons, a bit of lettuce and an enormous slick of chilli oil - we usually play a game and the first one to have enough of a coughing fit for the matre d’ to bring them a glass of water pays - sounds easy (the soup not the coughing fit) but you need the stock to be well made and the hand on the oil to be trusty. Next up, the in-house smoked duck with home made buns, I once went with a celiac who enquired about the buns, ‘made with rice flour’ we all heard, that’s ok then we thought, “self rice flour” the waitress expanded, less good suddenly (look it happened its not a homage to Benny Hill, honestly). The buns accompany a tea smoked half duck that is just fabulously moist but splendidly smoky, and shows a cuisine that isn’t all about blowing your head off with chillies.

Main courses include gung bo lamb; lamb, to me, seems the benchmark for good Szechwan cooking (although for all I know in the province itself it may be as authentic as chips with curry sauce), if its on the menu you’re likely to be in the right place. The gung bo lamb has a strongly reduced lamb stock some chillies some carrots and some peanuts, again simple but getting the stock to that point and keeping the lamb itself moist in the dish seems to be the skill. A similar dish ‘boiled lamb with Chillies’ also relies on producing that gunky thick delicious sauce that you know lamb will produce eventually when you cook it but are never exactly sure at home how long it takes to reach that point, thankfully they do here. Lots of things in fish flavoured sauces are available as well as dishes with home pickled chillies, but two more dishes need mentioning, the ‘ringing bell’ dishes where crisp wontons have a sweet, slightly vinegary sauce poured over them at the table, balances nicely with the more fiery sauces, and probably best of all, ‘twice cooked pork in yellow bean sauce’ bacon like pork served with leeks, carrots and pickled chillies, bacon and leek is such a great combination but here coupled with the sweetness of the carrots and the bite of the chillies, again very simple in concept but excellent in execution. We usually do soup, duck, two main courses, rice with a bottle of wine for about £50. If the previous paragraphs sounded a little meat-centric they also have a vegetarian set meal, as well as various non-vegetarian set meals to break people in gently.

On the negative side, and in an attempt to put you off so I can still get a table any given Sunday, the décor is old school artex, the cigarette smoke filled room could be a problem to anyone with lungs, and the desert menu is one of those laminated cards with lemons and coconuts and plastic bottles of baileys all filled with ice cream. They also close twice a year for two weeks at a time so they can go on holiday, this only being a bad thing because I have to go without smoked duck. Oh and it’s in Edinburgh, which admittedly is only bad news if you live in Kent, but it’s an hour away by plane, which makes it nine hours closer than San Francisco.

Geoff.

[Ian]

Thanks GeoffC. I'm visiting Edinburgh in August so I'll visit Szechwan house and compare it to Blue Thames.

All the best,

--

Ian

[Jon Tseng]

Little steamed buns with tea-smoked duck is very authentic

J

[Carlovski]

Typical - looks like my best bet in the UK is now Red Chilli in Manchester, and I don't live in Manchester any more

Have to give it a try next time I'm up there though

[thom]

Typical - looks like my best bet in the UK is now Red Chilli in Manchester, and I don't live in Manchester any more 

Have to give it a try next time I'm up there though

←

Carlovski, you're right. It is absolutely my new favourite restaurant, with the only downside being the fact I didn't discover it two years earlier when it opened.

Jay's review is here and sums it all up pretty well. It was so good I returned the next week for my works do. The food was just as inspiring, and we had to wait 40 minutes of a Wednesday early evening for a table - always a good sign.

They've recently opened a bigger place in Leeds, so even those over the wrong side of the Pennines don't have an excuse for not eating good Chinese.

I did a rambling reportage for some other website when I first ate there, so for those to lazy to click Jay's link (and who are tolerant of lax grammar and punctuation) read on. It'll make your tastebuds tingle:

"I ate for the first time in the Red Chilli restaurant (Portland St, on the edge of Chinatown), and it was absolutely outstanding.

Basically its a Sichuan restaurant (Northern Chinese) rather than Cantonese (Southern/Hong Kong) which nearly all UK Chinese restaurants are. I'd eaten at a couple of pseudo-Sichuan restaurants before, as I like the spicy nature of the cuisine, but I realise now they represented just token dabbling in the food of the region - this was full blown authentic.

The main difference is that the Sichaun food is not sickly, or gloopy or 'samey' as many Chinese dishes can be. It is all about thin, intensely flavoured broths, lots of chilli and pepper heat, and really subtle fresh herbs and spices. The depth of flavour in fantastic, with space to taste every ingredient in the dish. Reminded me of Thai or Korean in a way.

The other bit which makes is fun is that half of the 150 so dishes were new to me, and included ingredients which I had never eaten or in many cases never even heard of. It also has things unusual to Cantonese Chinese cuisine, such as leeks, lamb, frogs legs and bread (or more accurately - 'spring onion bread - yum).

Although it is authentic and uncompromised, many of the dishes are very accessable. That said, I was keen to try something new, so here are some of the more adventurous dishes:

*Hot wok trotter

*Husband and Wife lung slices (a literal translation I presume)!

*Stir fried pigs's intestine with Chinese black pudding (essentially cubes of blood made jelly with gelatine and chopped into cubes)

*Blessed the family (didn't order this so have no idea what it was, but it's on the seafood menu)

*Stir fried eel with chilli

*Homemade sundried sea cucumber

*Mrs spotty hot and spicy tofu

The highpoints were the soups (hot and sour with a REAL sichuan pepper kick, and tofu and fish); the eel (served chopped into chunks, bones intact); the pork belly; smoked duck (posh duck pancakes) and the house special of a kind of casserole of lamb, with lots of wilted lettuce, as well as dried chillis, crushed garlic, and chopped coriander.

The pigs intestines and Chinese black pudding was... ok. Quite nice actually. We pretty much polished it off, but with so many dishes to choose from it didn't excel enough to make me pick it next time.

When you arrive you get an English menu (everything you would expect in a normal Chinese restaurant) and then a Chinese menu (where the fun stuff is). Don't be daunted by the latter, as it's translated to English, so give your taste buds a work out and go for the exciting stuff.

The decor is simple, the food authentic, and the service incredibly helpful and knowledgable. And the price? Well myself and my colleague ordered five mains plus two soups, and to be honest we had enough food for four hungry people. The cost? £53 including water, green tea and two coffees. Staggering.

So is it the 'best' Chinese in Manchester? Well in terms of refinement and 'posh' experience possibly not, but it is so honest and simple, and the cuisine as a whole is so exciting and unusual (and with the spice is suited to English tastes) that it is my new favourite restaurant in town, period.

This place has been open two years, and I have no idea how it has not been on my radar till now. Everyone should give go there as soon as possible!"

Cheers

Thom

[Ian]

Hi,

If I remember correctly, I was told by Red Chilli that their chef is from Beijing. The menu extends further than Sichuan dishes and whilst good, it's not authentic Sichuanese - more the Beijing take on it.

In other news, apart from my discovery 'Blue Thames', there are two other London restaurants now apparently doing Sichuanese food. I'll report further when I've visited them.

All the best,

--

Ian Fenn

Chopstix

http://www.chopstix.com/