Pastry Competitions

[cbarre02]

How much progress has pastry competitions brought to the every day pastry chef, the 4 star pastry chefs, restaurant cunsultants, teachers, and pastry in gerneral?

[Wendy DeBord]

Hum...I'm not sure how to answer that question.........other then......ARE YOU KIDDING..........? Kind of a 'different' question, are you writing a school paper on this topic and looking for help?

Seriously-I'm not trying to be rude-it's just an unusual question.

[Carolyn Tillie]

I'm curious about a clarification on your question as well. Are you asking if techniques used in competitions trickle down into daily pastry use?

I might hazard a guess that it may be more than you think -- I remember seeing one of my first pastry competitions (15 or 20 years ago?) where one of the contestants was using <gasp> a paint gun to spray cocoa! Now they are common-place.

During the last pastry competition I saw on the Food Network, someone had come up with the idea of using sugar cylanders in hot glue guns and how THAT technique will be seen in the next year or two amongst pastry chefs.

Does that help?

[cbarre02]

Sorry about the confusion, let me clarify.

Are competitions used as the pastry world, inventive engineering. Or are they just a way to prove who is better than the other. I my self have competed in a couple of pastry competitions. Out side of finding new centerpiece techniques, I don't know how much I learned that could be applied to my career.

However I do know that for the competitor that the organizational skill that they acquire, are very important. It is one of the things that I find very important. But what in the way of cooking techniques, and flavor. Do competitions help?

One more thing… Do you think that pastry competitions and molecular gastronomy share any common ground?

[Michael Laiskonis]

In some quarters this becomes almost a political issue... I can only speak for myself, having never seriously competed, that my inspiration tends to come from other sources- and I rarely closely follow the competition scene. Surely I appreciate the techniques being developed and the design aesthetics that have evovled. To use your example, while those innovations may share some spirit with what the Molecular Gastronomy guys are doing, I draw the line of relevance on the side of making things taste good, or better.

I definitely share your belief in the importance of organization, as what I've seen on the national and international level blows my mind. Seldom, when looking at the actual items made for tasting (bon bons, petit fours, entremets, etc) do i see much in the way of exciting flavor development. As has been mentioned on this board over the last year or two, while evolving, the competition system still has one foot firmly planted in 'tradition'.

I hope Steve sees this and responds, as he is one of the rare chefs who has both solid competition experience and an affinity for progressive restaurant pastry...

[cbarre02]

Competition chefs... fine dining pastry chef... why can't we all just get along?

[Steve Klc]

Cory--are you kidding? Sorry, at first blush I'm with Wendy! At least as far as competitions and their value in the US.

You've actually asked a very broad question by phrasing it the way you did: "How much progress has pastry competitions brought to the every day pastry chef, the 4 star pastry chefs, restaurant consultants, teachers, and pastry in gerneral?" That covers a lot of ground, a lot of jobs. Quick assessment--competitions have had little to no impact on the progress of "most" pastry chefs or on how "most" pastry chefs are perceived here.

There is some media value, some minor bump for those pastry chefs who play the competition game--and especially for those working in the hotel, foodservice and teaching segments. But the US public has such a poor appreciation of dessert--let alone pastry chefs--let alone competing--that competing is actually irrelevent in most anyone's worldview/grand scheme of things/career arc. (Yes, this from someone who has enjoyed competing, who has competed very successfully and who has judged competitions.) No medal or competition has even approached the direct media value of a great restaurant review, mainstream glossy feature or ever helped a pastry chef win the James Beard award for best pastry chef--and it's getting more and more media mentions like the James Beard which leads to book contracts and celebrity gigs--why do you think it is the likes of Karen Barker, Gale Gand, Claudia Fleming and Sherry Yard who win the Beard and write the books? Do you think it has anything to do with competing? No, they've never competed in the manner you're referring to--though they all have competed--and competed darn well--in the pastry career game, haven't they? Competing doesn't help you put interesting creative desserts on the menu, doesn't help you touch your clientele, doesn't attract the attention of your local critic, doesn't lead to big photo spreads in Bon Apetit wearing an Armani suit or wearing too much makeup in a local newspaper food section feature!

There is one "competition" which is hot right now--and that's the competition to glom onto the molecular gastronomy bandwagon by hook or by crook--the real molecular gastronomy bandwagon or the media-perceived one. But that isn't the kind of "competition" you're referring to. It's merely the competition of staying current, staying relevant, placing your bets as the media tide changes--you gonna hold 'em, fold 'em or are you all in? There's no relation between pastry chefs pushing the envelope in this new arena or in their daily jobs and pastry chefs pushing the envelope in existing competitions--and there is often very little reward to try to do so in the latter arena. US pastry competitions are like an old-school board game with rules--they're not the latest first-person shooter on a computer--and rule number one is don't think too far outside the box. (Many judges don't react well to that--speaking artistically, creatively, degustation or form-wise--despite what they or the organizers say. Competitions usually reward obedience, obedience which reinforces vested interests, especially if you figure out the secret handshake.) I'm sorry to say "most" pastry chefs don't have support, need or time for showpieces, they don't have an audience which appreciates them, they don't have the budget for equipment like a paint sprayer even if they were to entertain trying to perfect that already-decades-old chocolate spraying technique--let alone some hot new glue gun technique. They're still trying to get their staff to bake the creme brulees and chocolate souffles right--the brulees and souffles which outsell all their other mildly more creative dessert offerings 8:1 and, oh yeah, their chef now wants them to start doing petits fours, etc. That is if they even have a staff!

As we discuss often on eG: fewer and fewer chefs and restaurateurs care about dessert--or pastry chefs themselves--or the pastry chef "position"--let alone the silly proposition whether pastry chefs "compete." However, the value of competing increases exponentially if you have an ACF orientation or affiliation, or a foodservice or hotel job: I have friends at the junior college/community college/state university level who teach who literally have to compete to advance their teaching careers--and have to lead their students to compete--as a function of their job survival. Many in this hotel/foodservice/culinary school realm see competing as a valid educational tool, in other words.

That said, attending and watching a competition live has some educational value for the "rest" of us, especially for younger pastry chefs. It can be fun, stressful, exciting and there is often tremendous value in ancillary networking--which usually is a by-product of going to a competition--other pastry chefs, media, suppliers and vendors and movers and shakers convene around a competition. It is often much better to attend than to compete yourself--when you compete, your focus and time is elsewhere.

But when it comes to progress, generally, it is a tough thing to measure--there's 1) personal development and then there's 2) professional development and/or media relations and then there's 3) the effect competitions might have on raising awareness of society as a whole. As Michael said I have been kind of omnivorous when it comes to getting involved in many different aspects of our profession--my current assessment is once you get past a certain level of achievement I don't think competitions rank very high on any of these 3 criteria--as opposed to other things you can do with your time, focus or money. The main thing to be gained from competing is exposure and self-promotion--you compete you get your name in Pastry Art & Design, perhaps in Food Arts in their yearly wrap-up issue, it might help open a few doors, get a new job, you win you may get your picture in a few magazines and newspapers--many pastry chefs have used competing to create new opportunities for themselves. It is a serious time commitment (if you actually try versus just going through the motions to get the exposure) and it is like anything else--there's no guarantee you will get the return on your investment. Whether they compete or not, complete no-talents will continue to get media exposure while some consummate talents continue to work under the radar. The organizers and sponsors of competitions don't owe you anything they are merely trying to sell more product and leverage themselves on your backs. If you can use that to your advantage, do so.

Having done it, I'd say you're better off going to Spain or France, eating your way around Herme, Conticini, Adria, Butron etc or spending a few weeks staging alongside other pastry chefs here, like Michael or Patrice or Gale Gand or Bill Yosses or Nicole or paying a weekend visit to Wendy, Ted, Colleen, Neil, Jason, Alana, Karen to see what they're up to or to anyone else you admire here or those un-named in your area. You'll progress quite nicely--and likely share and learn more meaningfully--that way.

So, ultimately, I'd say competitions are a low-risk/low reward tool--competing can be used by some to their advantage--but as far as progress, impact and relevance on 1) most pastry chefs and 2) society and culture as a whole--I wouldn't ascribe too much to it outside a very narrow vested industry segment and nothing to it in the world at large. The new book by Emily Luchetti, which Suzanne F recently reviewed for TDG, will have more impact professionally and have greater effect on "progress" in this country than all the pastry competitions and competitors combined. (And it's not like that book treads on unfamiliar ground.)

[tan319]

Ahhhh, Steve Michael

A breath of fresh air...

Thought provoking, as usual.

Really good to read you again.

And thanks for inspiring me ( and I'm sure the others), again.

[Wendy DeBord]

I can't add a word, just my support and respect for the answers given.

[cbarre02]

Thanks for the input. I guess that I don't have as broad of a spectrum as you do, as I still see some things from the educational/ACF side of things. While teaching we are told to promote competitions and even compete ourselves, I guess I have always wondered why. I under stand that the competitor as a whole has little to nothing to gain as far as monetary rewards, as they seem to put as much or more into the competition as they can get back. I know that major teams are back by large companies, but I am sure that a bit of their own change is in the mix (let alone allot of time). I also understand that winning a pastry competitions will accomplish very little in the way of furthering ones career, except the occasional hotel gig (Which I tend to think hotels like there chefs to be a billboard, just as much as competition sponsors).

What I trying to get at is this: "Has there been any new techniques, or ideas, in recent competitions, that can be applied to today’s modern pastry chef?" Recent meaning with in the last two years.

I am sorry for being so vague before; from now on I will get to the point.

[Steve Klc]

Cory--I don't have time to respond to your post right now, but I think you are misreading me a bit. I answered generally because you phrased your question generally. It seems like you may be one of those in a position to benefit from competitions--especially if you are younger, have that ACF school and teaching background, work under or with others who are from that ACF background, etc. It can be expensive to compete--meaning you have to lay out some cash for travel, ingredients, downtime away from work and home, if your costs are not picked up by your school or place of employment--but you can win prize money, you can more easily cozy up to sponsorship money, demonstration gigs, getting deals on products--why do you think all these old ACF guys do this? They do it for the judging/sponsorship/corporate gravy train.

Winning a competition can further the career of some.

Techniques and ideas that have come out of competitions in the past few years--that can be applied to the modern pastry chef of today--depends on who you are, what your level is already, whether you plan to compete, and what you do day in and day out--like do you make showpieces? do you teach chocolate or sugar? are you asked to do plated desserts or bon bons? That isn't as easy to answer--it also depends on how much you know already. There are pastry chefs who have never sprayed chocolate well before and then there are pastry chefs just dying to try that sugar glue gun idea--yet neither the old technique or this new one might have any relevance for the job you have to do. Still, never hurts to be voracious and well-rounded. 5 years from now you might find yourself asked to do a drop-dead showpiece.

That said, there's no list of "ideas" to come out of a competition that comes close to rivalling what you can take away from reading and cooking from Adria or Balaguer, for instance. Competitions are pretty basic and straightforward comparatively.

[cbarre02]

Steve, thank you for your response and you patience.

I don't really have any more questions about this, and feel as though I may have annoyed my reader. If I have I appologize.

[Wendy DeBord]

Although I agree with what Steve has written I think you have to remember that he's on a completely different level as you and I. He has a name internationally known (so does Micheal) so the value of competeing means little to them. It actually might take away from their reputation if they don't do very well and if they do well-it really doesn't help them either.

But a pc working at my unknown level -awards- can give you an edge over another pc when competeing for a job. In fact I think competing could and should bring ALOT to your career. There's alot of chefs that I would never have heard about if they didn't compete. They don't get the glossie write-ups in national magazines but being well known in the trade is definately important.

Reading between the lines.....I'm thinking your looking for a argument against having to compete, and your job wants you to. NO?

I think getting out and networking among your peers is invalueable. Just going to monthly dinners where everyone brags about what their doing isn't nearly as valuable as proving it side by side. I've yet to stop learning from observing others, even mistakes have educational value.

"Specific techniques that can be applied to todays modern pastry chef?"

Yes there are! Like Steve said it depends upon the chef and what they already know and are doing, etc.... I'd like to think I'm sort of a modern pc. I'm still greatly interested in whats happening in competitions because I haven't surpast that level (and I don't think MOST of us have)-I don't have a close up seat and only get snipits from trade magazines and foodtv shows so my knowledge of what's happening at these competitions is greatly limited.

There hasn't been a book that shows me how to make the molds they've been using in competitions (although I have my eye on buying a newly released book on the topic) from a pastry chefs perspective. So I study what materials and method they use...hoping the camera stays longer. Although I'll never be interested in making showpeices exactly like they do in competitions I do make my version of showpieces for every buffet many times a year and I'm always looking for new presentation ideas for all my work.

Sure Adria and Balaguer are doing cutting edge work but how much of it can the average pc's bring into our work? Not that damn much-we rely on sales from non-gourmet diners.

So this 'traditional' work at competitions might seem boring in comparision to Adria but there's subtle happenings. If you can't take something away from just observing these on tv your either at Micheal and Steves level or your blind.

[tan319]

Steve, thank you for your response and you patience.

I don't really have any more questions about this, and feel as though I may have annoyed my reader. If I have I appologize.

Don't mistake Steves passion for annoyance ( although it can make you feel a little 'zinged' at times.).

You can take and apply just about anything from anyone and work it into your repetoire if you want

A quick confit of berries, ala Balaguer or Adria comes to mind.

Gourmets or Non- Gourmets can enjoy that.

[chefette]

Well, I think that your original question was dealing with whether competitions actually have an impact on what PCs do in their kitchens -yes? I think that Steve has a point - many chefs, pastry chefs, and diners (especially in the US) are completely unaware of pastry competition work. Most of them never even contemplated the real artistic aspects of pastry. So what happens in competitions might as well be on Mars for all the immediate impact it has on them.

I actually DO think that there is impact though. In sort of the same way that technology and products developed for the Space Program or the military eventually find their way into our lives there is cross over.

Showpiece work - new techniques, materials and tools are brought into play (from silicon to paint sprayers, to plastic hoses, PVS pipes, blow torches, X-acto knives, scalpels, clamps, insulating material, neoprene, and molds) chefs in competition use these stuff to create showpieces. Whether you see the work or the finished product your awareness of what is possible and how to do it is expanded. People who want to make your life easier create shortcuts, forms, templates, locate and package stuff specifically for pastry chefs eventually. Restaurant owners and diners see things on TV and want more. They want it at their special parties and weddings, so there is impact. Plus you find new uses for things and ingredients. Maybe it expands the types of things you push yourself to do.

Cakes, Ice Creams, Chocolates, Petit Fours and Plated Desserts - in competitions there is alot of innovation in presentation (from decoration to plates and platforms), you see wild new styles and concepts and these show up in magazines, newspapers, TV shows, cooking classrooms they impact the life of the PC. There are innovative flavor combinations, innovative use of ingredients, sometimes new ingredients that become made available in more convenient new ways. This impacts your life.

I think that pastry competitions force PCs to push the envelope of technique, creativity, artistry, presentation, and taste to distinguish themselves. You may not be successful in a competition but ultimately I think the work that is done, the ideas expressed, and the tools, techniques, and ingredients utilized affect many ordinary pastry chefs. I would contend that they affect all PCs, but perhaps there are those who chose to shut out those influences as irrelevant, but even so there is impact.

[bripastryguy]

As someone who was never really into the competition scene, i have found new excitement in it. I recently under went entrance into a local competion (long island) sponsered by Paris Gourmet and Cacao Noel, it was to benefit the CODY foundation (a very worthwhile charity).

The requirements:

1-showpiece comprizing of atleat 60% chocolate and the rest maybe completed with sugar work of any kind.

2-Plated Dessert

3-200 Tasting portions.

*All with the Valentines Day Theme

I had never really competed in anything like this before, I was apprehensive as to my skill level (as are most of us-tempermental unsure, some time cocky, but always passionate about what we do). My sales rep lead me down the path. I saught out a friend of mine who has really taken an interest in showpieces and with his aide we made a very nice showpiece, the plated dessert was my gig.I decided to do a tasting for 2 consisting of:

Chocolate Passion Trio

Semi-Frozen Chocolate Malted with Praline Crunch and Bananas Foster

Passion Fruit Creme Brulee with apricot-passion Jam

Illegal chocolate pudding (super rich) with homemade marshmallow (which i toasted for the guests and peanut butter biscotti.

All my desserts had a great reception from all the guests. I came in 3rd, not too shabby for 18 contestants. Through this competition I have met many new collegues, vendors, friends and possibly even a distributor that wants to handle my dessrts.

So, for me I think this competition had only positive effects and will continue to help my business grow and I have a really nice plaque and medal to decorate my new store with.

Edited February 6, 2004 by bripastryguy (log)

[chefette]

Congratulations Bri. It is good to see that you put yourself out there in a public competition, and your desserts sound interesting and tasty. What was your showpiece? Will you post pictures?

Bri’s post raises an interesting question for me… When is a competition a competition? What are the elements a potential competitor should look for in determining whether to participate in a competition?

1- What are your goals and expectations in participating in a competition? Publicity? Advertisment? Peer advancement in the craft – Participation in the peer community? To push yourself in your technique? Contribution to a charity?

2- Venue: where will the competition be held? Is this a peer event or a public event?

3- Audience: Is it an event primarily for the pastry community to explore excellence that also has an opportunity for the public to view and sample to raise awareness?

4- Judging: Who will be judging the competition? What are their qualifications to judge pastry? Are they individuals whose skills and opinions hold value?

I ask these questions because there are many types of competitions and naturally in the end – it is up to the individual participant to determine the value and real purpose of the competition. Some competitions are opportunities to demonstrate your skills and vie with other professionals to demonstrate technical, artistic, and culinary excellence. Some are beauty contests and parties for which you are providing the organizers desserts and decorations as well as servers at no charge. Assuming that the chef is aware of the nature of the event and willing to make such a contribution, and gets publicity and an award out of it that is great.

Brian – how would you have felt about your participation in this event if you had come in 5th, or 10th, or last and not received any award?

[Steve Klc]

Brian--thank you for being so forthcoming and I applaud you for having the courage to take such a step. Reading your post takes me back to 1996 when I dipped my nervous foot into the waters of a local ACF competition for the first time and had to do my very first judged showpiece (a croquembouche with pulled sugar.) A specific question: how much of your costs were provided by ParisGourmet/Cacao Noel, the "sponsors" of this event/competition? Did they at least provide all of your ingredients?

[PastryLady]

I am entered in a chocolate competition (very basic) later this month. Still finalizing my ideas for the end of this month. I am fairly new to the industry you could say (less than 3 years), but decided to give it a shot. Figured if I didn't like the experience at least I could say I tried it out. I am in the cheesecake competition and am doing a turtle chocolate cheesecake. Tried it out twice now and the candied pecans make the dessert beyond its creaminess. Anyways, I am looking at this competition not really so sell myself or the company I work for (but will definately say both if asked ), but mostly this is a personal stepping stone for me. Something to say I can do something new and go outside my comfort zone for a bit. I don't know where this will lead, but I am so far enjoying coming up with new ideas, using some things I have learned both in school and at my jobs, and trying to keep enjoying what I do. To me this is a reminder of how blessed I am to be doing everyday what I love to do and not stuck in a dead-end job emotionally/professionally.

[bripastryguy]

To answer the questions:

I was not planning on placing at all ( I know my desserts are good, but there are many who are better). I went with a positive attitude and the notion that I would have my goods tasted by 350 possible customers. So if I placed 1st or 18th I think my attitude would have been the same. I had a great time, many new friends and introduced my company.

Paris Gourmet & Cacao Noel gave us nothing! We had to purchase the chocolate. It was fine, evrybody said the same thing, they all used what they had and used some of the chocolate from Cacao Noel. What they are doing is, "An Evening of Good Taste" (local event) www.eveningofgoodtaste.com is having a Chocolate Pavillion and Cacao Noel is donating 2 boxes of chocolate to every participant (not a competition, more like a massive tasting)

Chefette's questions:

1-Promotion, testing my metal against my nearest competion. Networking, etc.

2-Competition held @ The Watermill caterers (they also participated and took 2nd?)

3-4 Juding was not professional, general public-people's choice (which to me and my business at this point is very important to know what potential customers think)

The competion was some of the top pastry chefs from my area, some with far superior talent, marketing etc... and some with less