N'western U's cafeteria honors MLK w/fried chicken

[tryska]

EDIT - and.... I see that the alteration of the very post I responded to with the above says something not so different now... "North don't know South"

oh and jon - the scary thing is - I'm a transplanted Northener! I never htought i would be having this conversation, but I guess with almost 10 years south of the Mason-Dixon, perceptions change.

[Busboy]

What complicates things is that a style of eating that is damn near universal in the south is marginalized as "black food" by some in the north instead of simply being seen as southern cooking.

I think "marginalized" is something of a loaded word. Once you get north of Baltimore, there was very little white southern migration into the northern industrial cities, while blacks moved north by the millions. Most yankees who came across this type of cooking would likely have seen it in a black household or neighborhood, because there just weren't that many non-blacks eating greens, or ribs, or whatever iconic food you want to select, up north. It's not as though people were particularly enlightened about any food -- other than their own home cooking -- until just a few years ago.

It seems like some of the white folks just feel bad because they're not getting their share of the credit for some good cooking.

[tryska]

mmm...that works for then, busboy, but in 2004?

[Busboy]

mmm...that works for then, busboy, but in 2004?

In terms of home cooking or ethnic cuisine, up north, you're still going to find that type of food served predominantly in African American homes or establishments and proudly claimed by the black community as "soul food." And as such, it is not "marginalized", it's respected and celebrated by most people who care about these kinds of things.

Since it is food that was eaten by black southerners and which was brought north largely by blacks, I'd say that people who don't understand the food broadly as "southern food" are not so much dumb or blinded by stereotype as they are "not fully informed." Education, rather than outrage, thus being the appropriate response.

[tryska]

ok - i can accept that.

[reesek]

as someone from barely south of the mason dixon i have to try to put a stop to whatever of this is my fault. i think all this is stemming from my hasty "stereotypically black food" comment.

i'll just say it now - it was a dumb thing to say - i didn't mean for it to read the way it did. though certainly the menu served is as (stereo)typically southern white as it is black - my experience does not reflect that - i apologize for making my experience into the only experience.

and maybe there was nothing wrong/racist/potentially offensive/politically incorrect/whatever about what northwestern did, but it made me wince when i read it.

[hwilson41]

What complicates things is that a style of eating that is damn near universal in the south is marginalized as "black food" by some in the north instead of simply being seen as southern cooking.  That's a problem that goes far beyond these theoretical black students at Northwestern who theoretically might be offended, and into a general Northern confusion about African-Americans, southern culture, where they intersect, and where they don't.

Precisely. It strikes me that this is a "north meets south" issue, and north doesn't bother to try to understand the cultural background of the south (notwithstanding the fact that everybody is paying tribute to a Southerner). Perhaps the late Bill Neal said it as succinctly as anybody could. Writing about dried beans in general and pintos in particular, he wrote

To almost all southerners, black or white, rich or poor, a bowl of hot pintos, cornbread, and a glass of cold buttermilk is a simple but complete meal.  (Bill Neal, Bill Neal's Southern Cooking, Rev Ed, Chapel Hill: UNC Press, 1989, p. 67)

Note that race is totally irrelevant in the above statement. What color your skin is doesn't matter a whit (isn't it a pity we can't say the same in general?). Southern food is southern food, period. And it transcends race in a way that many not from the South obviously don't comprehend.

THW

[Pan]

Dr. King's work was all about race.

I know this is a tangent in this context, but I'd have to disagree. Dr. King focused not only on campaigning for civil rights, but also for the poor of all colors and creeds, and against war and oppression generally and the Vietnam War particularly. And one of the biggest crimes against the memory of Dr. King is when people who know better falsify his history by pretending that he was not a radical and ignoring everything he did that wasn't focused on simply integrating black Americans into a preexisting mainstream. He wanted to change that mainstream, too, by making it more just, more peace-loving, and more egalitarian. And in those respects, he actually had a lot in common with another great American who was assassinated at great cost to race relations and the country: Malcolm X, in his post-Haj days.

OK, end of rant. Carry on with the food talk.

(And, of course, nothing personal to you, Sam!)

[ExtraMSG]

To expand it just a little...

Do you think, especially you southerners, that whites have to some degree stolen soul food by not recognizing that without slaves they may have never had many of their precious dishes? Without house slaves and Jim Crow culture, the cuisine may have been as distinctly black in the south as it is in the north.

It may truly be rude not to honor southern home cooking as originally African-American -- at least as much as not recognizing that jazz, blues, and rock are a gift from black people as well.

[Mayhaw Man]

To expand it just a little...

Do you think, especially you southerners, that whites have to some degree stolen soul food by not recognizing that without slaves they may have never had many of their precious dishes? Without house slaves and Jim Crow culture, the cuisine may have been as distinctly black in the south as it is in the north.

It may truly be rude not to honor southern home cooking as originally African-American -- at least as much as not recognizing that jazz, blues, and rock are a gift from black people as well.

I don't understand. What kind of recognition do you suggest?

I have responded to MSG's comments about Southern Food being somehow stolen in another thread from last summer. The subject here (which of course I was part of the problem) has badly strayed from the original topic of Northwestern University and a letter written by a student.

Southern Foods-Is They or Ain't They?

[ExtraMSG]

To expand it just a little...

Do you think, especially you southerners, that whites have to some degree stolen soul food by not recognizing that without slaves they may have never had many of their precious dishes?  Without house slaves and Jim Crow culture, the cuisine may have been as distinctly black in the south as it is in the north.

It may truly be rude not to honor southern home cooking as originally African-American -- at least as much as not recognizing that jazz, blues, and rock are a gift from black people as well.

I don't understand. What kind of recognition do you suggest?

I have responded to MSG's comments about Southern Food being somehow stolen in another thread from last summer. The subject here (which of course I was part of the problem) has badly strayed from the original topic of Northwestern University and a letter written by a student.

Southern Foods-Is They or Ain't They?

Well, eg, not just passing off soul food as merely lunch. It has connection with Martin Luther King, Jr, through his black activism not only for northerners, but for southerners even if they don't acknowledge it.

I have a friend from Texas who has made similar comments. But soul food stems from black culture as much as Tex-Mex stems from Mexican-American culture. That we all eat it now is great. But when the opportunity arises, acknowledging and honoring its founders would at least be polite.

[Alex]

As Sam so astutely pointed out,

Really, while I don't think this menu is inherrently any less appropriate than any similarly constructed menu, I do think it was poor judgment on the part of the cafeteria simply because "fried chicken, collard greens and cornbread" has been used in a pejorative sense, and is taken as such by some people.

Perception is everything, yes?

Did the NU food service folks ever considered asking MLK III what his father's favorite foods were? Just wondering.

[tryska]

first, let's stop calling it soul food. it's southern food. imo, the term "soul food" is racially divisive, as to many people it's code for "black people food".

second, yes - southern food, has a lot to do with the cooking styles of Afro-Caribbean slaves (and Free People of Color). That is understood by most in the South.

The point is - Southerners have moved it past it and gone on to enjoy the food, understanding the roots, and understanding that good food is a good thing.

Slavery happened. None of us were there to participate, suffer, or emancipate anyone in/from it. the legacy, among other things that are not so good, and some things that are, is Southern Food. It's part of the fabric of this country (altho perhaps only south of the Mason-Dixon).

You can rail about the wrongs of people hundreds of years ago, or you can stop to appreciate that at least something positive came out of a very ugly time - and do what you can to make sure injustices such as slavery, jim crow, and racial segregation NEVER happen in this country again.

and before anyone makes any assumptions about me, I am a yankee-bred minority woman, who has spent the last 10 years in the deep south, and don't necessarily speak for anyone but myself and my perceptions.

[Busboy]

I utterly disagree that "soul food" is racially divisive. I have never heard or seen it used in any way other than as a descriptive of a type of food, like "Northern Italian" or "Tex-Mex". The mainstream acceptance fo the term, used in innumerable cookbooks, restaurants, and a successful movie and TV show indicates that it is an accepted and understood term.

On the other hand, to wholly ascribe all the delights of southern cooking to the slave trade might shortchange the contributions of many other groups of people who contributed to the emergence of this cooking -- Cajuns, mountain people, etc., all of whom contributed to its emergence and evolution.

PS, while we're on the subject, anybody got a good red beans and rice recipe? I promice to refere to by whatever lable you prefer.

[tryska]

i dunno busboy - "soul" as an adjective to me is code, just like "urban" is code.

[JPW]

I'm with tryska on this one.

The question is - What is the way in which it is being used?

In my experience of the South (my wife is from Atlanta, and my MIL's family is still largely in Lynchburg VA) you never really hear the term "soul food". It's just everyone's food - Southern Food. In most of the North, however, soul food is distinctively black food. I imagine mainly because there tend not to be many white southerners who move north of the Mason-Dixon line (with the obvious exceptions of NYC/other big cities).

In this context, the term "Soul food" can be used as a celebration of southern cooking, which again is largely African-American in the North, or it can be used in a perjorative sense. In either way, it is pretty loaded.

[Cusina]

Interesting points here... it is an extremely complex issue.

But, I still am left wondering what should they have served for lunch? Should they just ignore the holiday and serve the usual? Why would it have been perfectly fine to have a Jazz concert in his honor but not a lunch?

I never realized NU was so "white". I worked for the NU med. school for a few years and their Medical School campus (downtown, not in Evanston) absolutely isn't. Granted, the African American population isn't huge, but other minorities are very present making for a wide racial mix. And NU is in a huge urban population, hardly tucked away in some backwater corner of the country, so I can't believe that they are just "ignorant" of racial issues.

[cakewalk]

Martin Luther King, Jr. was not about food.

I think the whole thing is misdirected. Why on earth would food, ANY food, be used as a vehicle through which to honor Dr. King? Was he a chef?

It seems to me that that is the basic disrespect here. It is a complete (and very stupid, IMO) denigration of who Dr. King was and what he actually stood for. It's not too far removed from having a three-day sale at department stores in his honor. I mean, he wanted to make things more affordable for the poor, too. So would that be an appropriate way to honor his memory?

[tryska]

everyone of all races sitting down at a lunch counter to eat a good meal of southern food?

[fresco]

Does a large food service company have the catering contract at Northwestern? Would it be possible to get someone from Northwestern or the catering company to discuss how they arrived at their menu decision?

[Busboy]

As I said earlier, I have never heard "soul food" used in a derogatory sense. Never. Not even in the sense that my kids will say "Daaaad, not Thai food again." And I don't think it's a code word, because everybody knows that "sould food" means "black southern cooking." It's a synonym.

A quick google reveals that the most famous black owned restaurant in NYC (that I know of, anyway) has no problem with the phrase. Neither do the producers, stars and, one assumes, the predominantly black viewers of the long-running TV show, or the movie upon which it is based. Search "soul food" at Amazon.com, and you get responses, ranging from cookbooks to novels to advice for the black entrepreneur to new-age-y psychic comfort food. It is a term that has entered the language with positive connotations and it appears to be embraced by the black community as a shorthand for much that that community treasures - church, family, strong values, hanging tough in hard times, etc.

I agree that "soul food" may be the same as "southern food" or, more likely, a subset of southern food, like cajun or the small game dishes my hillbilly grandfather used to eat. However, I think people who take exception to the term "soul food" are finding an affront that doesn't exist.

I also think that attempts to serve the stuff on MLK day can be a perfectly acceptable -- if awkward -- recognition of Dr. King's work. Far be it from anyone on eGullet to separate food from the larger issues involved.

OK, I'm done, except to renew my plea for a good red beans and rice recipe.

[ExtraMSG]

I'm pretty sure the term "soul food" was invented in the mid to late 20th century as a positive description most likely by African-Americans. Again, words only have meaning by how they're used, so any word can be used pejoratively. If I start saying: "You're such a damn eGulleter," the term "eGulleter" becomes negative.

I'm with Cusina. Why is serving a type of food associated with black culture any worse than playing music associated with black culture on a day that, despite being named for a specific person, is also a day appropriately used to honor an entire group of people in this country?

Answer me this: if it were for Black History Month, would you still find fault?

[fifi]

this just in from my favorite son... copied with his permission.

Well, you can tell all your foodie friends that your son works for NU and

has taken a poll.  Most of my staff is black women and none of them were

offended or put off by the menu on MLK Day.  Some were disappointed they

didn't know about the food to take advantage of it!  Lord knows I'm a

liberal Democrat and proud of it but that is just ridiculous.  They need to

get a grip.  Black people typically enjoy those dishes, as do I, and there

is nothing wrong with serving those dishes to celebrate an important black

holiday.  I say bring on the wings, greens and corn bread!

[tryska]

well alrighty then.

[Mayhaw Man]

And more evidence supporting the theory that "Soul Food" is neither an insulting term or a cuisine developed wholly by people of African American backgrounds -

This is a brief, incomplete description provided by Joyce White, the woman who wrote the book on the subject (literally).

Soul Food Q & A

I reccomend going back and reading some of the discussion on this topic during the Q & A as it covers much of the subject matter we are trying to politely stumble around with here.