Corian vs Marble vs Granite

[Dave the Cook]

Nothing a quick squirt from can of Painless Stainless couldn't fix.

Could you elaborate on "painless stainless"? Something easier, better than Barkeepers Friend?

Where does one find this stuff?

Where to buy it -- or check a good hardware or restaurant supply store.

[Marlene]

Thanks. I guess I could've done that I aksed because I've never heard of it here in the Great White North, but I'll find out if it exists.

[robyn]

My personal experience with Corian has been fair to middling. I had it installed maybe 4-5 years ago, at roughly the same cost as granite -- I saved very little money; I bought it because I believed all the lies about why it was going to be better. My Corian is blue with white specks. Aesthetically, I'm not pleased with the artificial look -- of course that's my fault for buying plastic that looks like granite in a color that doesn't exist in the natural world. But the fake-factor has become more and more of an eyesore to me with each passing year. In terms of utility, I'm a heavy user of the kitchen and sometimes have professional chefs over to cook, so there's quite a bit of banging and whacking and clanging. The Corian just can't take it. It was heavily scratched before my first dinner party was over, and it gets duller and duller with age. A couple of years ago I decided maybe I'd have it sanded and repolished. Haha. That turned out to be a humorous proposition to everyone I called, even though one of the main selling propositions was that this would be a simple process. I've put some moderately hot pots on the countertop and there hasn't been any terrible damage -- I also never work directly on the counters (nor would I work directly on any counter except for chocolate work on marble or other low-impact pastry-type applications). Most everything in my kitchen is probably going to last for 20+ years, but I'll be damned if I let those ugly-ass piece-of-crap overpriced Corian countertops survive that long. They'll have to be replaced, probably with granite, whenever I can afford to do so. At that point I'll also switch to an undermount sink.

My previous kitchen, by the way, had marble countertops. I only ever had two problems with them: first, during installation, a piece of the backsplash cracked -- it was glued back together but I always could see the barely detectable crack and it annoyed me; second, it took a lot of wear and tear on the front edge, but the edge was square not rounded. I could probably be happy with the right specimen of marble, but next time I do countertops I'm not settling: it will be as much granite as I can afford, and if I run out of money I'll put a marble slab (I still have the old countertop, so this would be a low cost process) in a pastry area and I'll put some butcher block in the lower-traffic space away from the sink and stove. If I can't afford any of that and my Corian continues to crap out on me, I'm going to learn to do DIY concrete countertops.

OK - I understand your disappointment. I never thought Corian was cheap compared to granite - or "better". Just a different look. With somewhat different characteristics. I agree that granite is somewhat tougher - and that Corian scratches more easily (my current counters are 8 years old and they have some fine scratches on them - but the finish is still shiney). Both can chip if you drop things on them (not always but sometimes).

Particularly with light colors - I think it's easier to get stains out of Corian if you're the kind of person - like me - who sometimes doesn't get around to cleaning up for 12 hours after making a mess (like last night - my husband thought he would be nice to me and make me a milk shake because of all my dental work - but he didn't screw the blender together properly and everything wound up covered with chocolate ice cream and strawberry syrup - which I cleaned up this morning). I've seen some pretty badly stained light granite counters in friends' houses.

Unlike you - I have to categorize myself as a "light user" of my kitchen. I use it a lot. But there's little in the way of "banging and whacking and clanging" except in the sink when I'm cleaning up.

I've never had to refinish any Corian counter I had. Once had to repair a chip in a counter in another kitchen - and that was a relatively easy proposition. My installer in this house did tell me - like you were told - that he could come back to "redo" the counter if I needed it - and that it would be easy. Of course - he then moved 1500 miles away - so I doubt I'll be seeing him anytime soon. With the pace of construction in most parts of the US today - it's hard to get anyone decent even to install something - much less fix/repair something. I think the next time I need a major appliance repaired - I will simply throw it in the trash and buy a new one.

Considering what you say about how you use a kitchen - for your next kitchen - you might skip all the "residential" finishes and go straight to a commercial setup - like stainless steel - with specialty areas for things like baking. That will of course have its limitations too. It is easy to keep clean (and very sanitary) - but sometimes hard to keep from spotting unless you keep wiping it down. It will develop a patina of scratch lines over the years (I like stainless steel sinks - but they do develop a patina of scratch lines very quickly). I suspect you know enough chefs to ask to be taken on tours of lots of commercial kitchens that aren't brand new - so you can see what they'll look like down the road. If you want something that is very heavy duty and functional though - I suspect real commercial materials will make you happiest.

As for aesthetics - perhaps you don't like what you got because you were trying to "imitate" granite - and what you got was "real Corian" - i.e., fake looking granite". I have taupey gray flecked Corian counters in my bathrooms. I like the look - but never thought about whether they looked like real stone of any kind. I just went in to look at them. I suppose you might mistake it for stone if you gave it a quick glance - but I think I'd be unhappy if what I really wanted in the first place was stone.

I had a similar but worse experience with marble. This was for a bath counter in a master bath - maybe 12 feet long. It was supposed to be a monolithic slab. First the contractor drilled the sink holes in the wrong places. Then he got the sink holes right in the next slab - but the slab cracked in half during installation. So now we have 24 linear feet of marble and no counter - and the contractor is going broke on our job. We wound up cutting up those slabs into smaller runs - so the counter had 3 seams instead of none. They were grouted - and could be easily seen - but they didn't bother me. Still - I developed a phobia about marble cracking - and never used it again (for that reason - and also because it wound up covered with ring marks which were impossible to remove).

By the way - I always like a full bullnose on residential counters - no matter what they're made of. Gives them an elegant look in my opinion.

And I'd be careful about concrete. From what little I've seen of it in other peoples' houses and their discussions about it - it seems like an architect's perfect dream surface (i.e., one which photographs beautifully but isn't really designed to be used).

It's good to talk about mistakes. My current kitchen is the third one I've done - it was built when we built this house - and I still have mental notes of mistakes that I will correct next time. You'd think I'd be able to get it right by now! Robyn

[Varmint]

How are stainless countertops made? Does someone fabricate a piece of stainless sheet metal around a slab of plywood? Is it expensive?

[Fat Guy]

Robyn, just to clarify one point: granite is a "real commercial material." Most every one of Alain Ducasse's restaurant kitchens, for example, has black granite counters. For that matter, so is Corian -- but only in pastry kitchens as far as I know. At Lespinasse they had a big piece of Corian in the pastry kitchen, and I think it had cooling elements installed underneath. But it was only used for chocolate work, etc., so there wasn't any impact to worry about.

[Dave the Cook]

How are stainless countertops made? Does someone fabricate a piece of stainless sheet metal around a slab of plywood? Is it expensive?

I'm not sure how it's done now, and it probably depends on exactly what you need. I'd bet some has to be hand fabricated, but standard sizes and edges are probably done by a computer-driven machine.

John Boos makes them in a bunch of different sizes. They start at about $50/square foot and go up from there. There are probably less expensive vendors.

[robyn]

Robyn, just to clarify one point: granite is a "real commercial material." Most every one of Alain Ducasse's restaurant kitchens, for example, has black granite counters. For that matter, so is Corian -- but only in pastry kitchens as far as I know. At Lespinasse they had a big piece of Corian in the pastry kitchen, and I think it had cooling elements installed underneath. But it was only used for chocolate work, etc., so there wasn't any impact to worry about.

I guess I've only had the privilege of going "behind the scenes" at local joints. They can't afford granite .

I like the look of black granite in a "city kitchen" that is used mostly at night. Very elegant. So the Alain Ducasse kitchen must look great. In Florida - during the day - when it's sunny (and that's when I do most of my cooking) - black granite makes your kitchen look like a relic from Miami Vice in the 1980's.

It's hard in Florida to get any type of suitable surface for baking/pasta whatever. Everything is too warm and too humid. So I don't even try to do stuff like bread. When my husband and I make pasta - we use wax paper to minimize sticking. Cooling elements would probably work - but it doesn't make sense installing $1000 worth of cooling elements for the $25 worth of pasta we make a year . Take care, Robyn

[Betts]

For Fat Guy- when I was choosing granite yesterday, there is a natural granite that is bright blue with emerald green spots that looks more garishly artificial than any Corian ever could.

I am still listening to all the opinions and husband would consider all granite if cost does not spiral out of control which it is threatening to do. Black granite on the perimeter would look spectacular.

[Fat Guy]

For Fat Guy- when I was choosing granite yesterday, there is a natural granite that is bright blue with emerald green spots that looks more garishly artificial than any Corian ever could.

More artificial than this?

(Hangs head in shame . . .)

[Mayhaw Man]

Varmint,

You have now (finally) hit on something in your project I can be of help with. There is someone in your area who does "food grade stainless work". This person is talented, reasonably priced, and looking to do something for fun besides work in a factory repairing and installing food equipment. This person would love to come over and look at your job. I don't know the guy but I promise there is one.

The reason I know this is that in every city I have ever built a brewery in I have been able to find one of these guys. A lot of cities, a bunch of breweries, and a bunch of welders. Stainless guys are not cut out of the same cloth as the guys that repair trailers and do ironwork. They are pleasant and seem to take a great deal of pride in their work.

Actually, I have a guy in Charlotte that I have used on a couple of jobs. If you would like I will call him and see if he knows anyone up your way. I bet he does.

Incidentally, I believe that you will find stainless to be pretty inexpensive. The prices on sheet metal are reasonably good right now, so labor is the issue. You will also find custome made to be much less expensive (generally) than what you find as ready made. Stainless countertops will generally be formed over wood and you will be suprised if you decide to do a little more research what can be formed out of sheet metal by someone who knows what he is doing.

[fifi]

Fat Guy, WHAT were you drinking... er... I mean thinking?

[Dave the Cook]

I've seen this pattern, and I don't think it's as bad as FG is making it out to be -- as long as you aren't expecting faux stone. To be honest, it never occurred to me that it was supposed to be granite. More than anything, it reminded me of the linoleum floor tile in a house we lived in in about 1963. I felt strangely at ease.

[Blondie]

I thought they were going for the terrazzo look with that speckled Corian, not granite. Does that make it any more acceptable?

[hjshorter]

For Fat Guy- when I was choosing granite yesterday, there is a natural granite that is bright blue with emerald green spots that looks more garishly artificial than any Corian ever could.

More artificial than this?

(Hangs head in shame . . .)

I think we have the same counters, excepts the pattern in our Corian is much smaller. Is your pic magnified at all?

The artificialness of the color has never bothered us. And the people buying our house love it, so that's all that matters.

[Fat Guy]

I think we have the same counters, excepts the pattern in our Corian is much smaller. Is your pic magnified at all?

That depends on your computer's monitor and settings, so I can't say. On my monitor at my resolution it's roughly to scale. The name of the pattern is Mediterranean Blue, I believe. The most awful thing about it is that it seems to be the favorite color of hospital and doctor's office renovations that were done around the time I renovated my kitchen. So for example if you go to Metropolitan Hospital there's tons of this exact same ugly-ass Corian in the reception area.

[Fat Guy]

Fat Guy, WHAT were you drinking... er... I mean thinking?

I don't think I was even 30 years old at the time, and I assure you it was the totally "in" product and we were the envy of our peer group. You could have opened up any design-and-decor magazine at the time and found this material and color used in kitchen and bath renovations. I hadn't quite figured out at that time that following trends is kind of stupid when you're buying something you have to live with for decades.

[Varmint]

Of course, Fat Guy has, what, 4 linear feet of countertop in his kitchen?

[Fat Guy]

I thought they were going for the terrazzo look with that speckled Corian, not granite. Does that make it any more acceptable?

I'm sure you're right. And no, it doesn't make it any more acceptable!

[Fat Guy]

Of course, Fat Guy has, what, 4 linear feet of countertop in his kitchen?

It's not that small -- my kitchen is about 18' long and has countertops on parts of both sides because it's a galley layout. I'm pretty sure I have 15 linear feet of countertops, 11 of which are in the ugly blue and 4 of which are wood. I only ever use about 3' of my counter space (the part adjacent to the sink), but I bought a lot of that stupid Corian.

[Varmint]

Of course, Fat Guy has, what, 4 linear feet of countertop in his kitchen?

It's not that small -- my kitchen is about 18' long and has countertops on parts of both sides because it's a galley layout. I'm pretty sure I have 15 linear feet of countertops, 11 of which are in the ugly blue and 4 of which are wood. I only ever use about 3' of my counter space (the part adjacent to the sink), but I bought a lot of that stupid Corian.

It's just that nearly every square inch of that countertop is covered with appliances and other stuff -- you don't actually see the beauty that is Corian.

[Varmint]

Our building is made out of granite. The interior lobby is lined with granite. And there are 3 large slabs of the same granite that have been sitting out in our parking deck for at least 5 years. I sent an email to the building manager today, offering to take the granite off his hands, as it's such an eyesore. I'm sure he'll jump at the offer.

[Fat Guy]

I'm thinking I might get my kitchen redone to look like a fire-engine-red labyrinth, but until then I'm sticking with the appliances-and-junk-atop-ugly-ass-fake-blue-Corian look.

[Varmint]

I'm thinking I might get my kitchen redone to look like a fire-engine-red labyrinth, but until then I'm sticking with the appliances-and-junk-atop-ugly-ass-fake-blue-Corian look.

Just make sure you get all your design tips from your "cyber-friends."

[Mottmott]

Of course, Fat Guy has, what, 4 linear feet of countertop in his kitchen?

It's not that small -- my kitchen is about 18' long and has countertops on parts of both sides because it's a galley layout. I'm pretty sure I have 15 linear feet of countertops, 11 of which are in the ugly blue and 4 of which are wood. I only ever use about 3' of my counter space (the part adjacent to the sink), but I bought a lot of that stupid Corian.

Me too. I wonder how many of us have the luxury of counterspace, perhaps acres of it, and always work in the same spot. I do 90% of my prep in the 3-4' corner between the stove and the sink or at the sink. It's the only spot in my 20 year old kitchen that is showing any sign of wear. The rest is parking space as I like my tools quick to hand.

[Betts]

FatGuy- yours is positively muted and tasteful compared to the showroom sample. Think bright blue- as blue as the top banner on my Internet explorer with coin sized algae- colored green blotches sprinkled with white, just for contrast. I think it was was somewhere in the Pacific. It made the lavender samples look sedate.

Personally, I think you have a big emotional hang up with your Corian. It is fine but the hospital association must be making you queasy.

What do you think soapstone runs? I'll have to do a little digging.