TDG: Xenofoodia

[Suzanne F]

Nu, so can you be a foodie and keep kosher? Oy! it's not easy to learn food when you're told that everything you aspire to is . . . TREYF!!! Chomp here if you dare!

Then come back here and we'll have a nosh and talk. Okay, mein susse kinderlach (sweet little child)?

***

Be sure to check The Daily Gullet home page daily for new articles (most every weekday), hot topics, site announcements, and more.

Edited November 29, 2006 by snowangel (log)

[fresco]

Rabbi, your contributions continue to be some of the most amusing stuff on eGullet.

Not to suggest for a moment that your family was not entirely unique in their craziness, do you think it would have changed dinner time in your home at all were your mother to have realized that almost everything that she overcooked was overcooked in exactly the same way in millions of non-Jewish households across North America and the UK by people harboring precisely the same suspicions about unfamiliar ingredients?

[Suzanne F]

As the sun sinks in the west, the Sabbath is rolling in. So we probably won't hear from the rotund Reb until later tomorrow.

But I'll bet it wouldn't have mattered to his mother. Maybe to her, what THEY did was anti-Sem ... while what she did was prudent. (THEY/THEM is how all others were referred to during my childhood, capitalized even in speech, to make the distinction unmistakable.)

[bloviatrix]

I found myself nodding in recognition as I read this article. To this day there are certain things my mom won't buy because they seem treyf to her (even if it's in a kosher store complete with rabbinical supervision). Her number one item to to stay away from is fresh tuna. It just doesn't seem kosher to her.

My mil is similar, but her kiss of death phrase is "it doesn't have a yiddeshe ta'am" (jewish taste).

[JFLinLA]

"it doesn't have a yiddeshe ta'am" (jewish taste).

And Chinese food does?!

That's funny.

[Pan]

My parents were adventurous in terms of cuisine and taste, so I didn't recognize them in this piece, but it was sure fun to read!

[wesza]

"it doesn't have a yiddeshe ta'am" (jewish taste).

And Chinese food does?!

That's funny.

The ONLY type of Chinese Food probably ever [MAYBE] eaten by a certain type of "Fromm" Jewish Families in America even in 2004 may be some "Kosher Chicken Chow Mein" that was prepared at a Wedding Buffet or at the Temple. Kosher Egg Rolls NEVER.

I know families that will not permit in their homes any of the Kosher Coffee Lightners or Whipped Toppings since it's disrespectfull? or spoiled? or seems Treef !!!

Even the Rabbi's or Kashruth will arouse the suspisions of the Matriach whose in charge. Better carefull, then FEH. I'm not sure if it's been inherited or just something thats so alien to their upbringings but the believe in only their OWN traditions. Never Compromise, no Margerine as it's Evil.

I've met Matriachs that argued why spend money on Prime Rib, since she can make Brisket Pot Roast that tastes better and more tender. [Costs Less]

This is not due to being thrifty, no it's got a reasonable explanation in only one word. "CAUSE". Just in case your not aware that is explanation enough. It's also all you'll ever get.

When I was growing up the most expensive food at our house was the Pike and Carp that was required for Gefelte Fish. That always had to be the freshest and best available. Lots of people remember the first time their eyes teared when cutting onions. That doesen't come close to my memory of having to assist in Grinding up Fresh Horseradish for Passover. That stuff attacks the unwary in your eyes, nose, darn it everywhere as it all seems to overcome everything you've never experienced. Tears, Running Nose, Affraid to Breath, and then Galloping Nose. The Mariach actually smiled at my distress, as if it was a coming of age. Maybe it was, since i've never Ground Horseradish ever again.

Brings to mind another Matriach experience, being taken to the Market, where I received a Cookie from the Baker, a Pickle from the Pickle Man. It was great to be a kid. But then came the catch.

The live Chicken Stall.

Since i'd never been to the Market before I wasn't aware that the Chicken in our Chicken Soup was actually selected from Live Birds in Gages, then Killed, defeathered and taken home to be Kashered and Cooked.

This was traumatic since there was no preperation before we walked into the shop. It was suggested that I be given the honor of picking the Chicken. The only honor I wanted was to be gone. The Chicken was picked, not by me since I held on as close to the Mariach as possable.

That night I didn't enjoy the Chicken as much, but rationized that the Matzoh Balls were okay.

Irwin

[JFLinLA]

Never picked out a live chicken but have experienced the cookie from the bakery as a kid, grinding of the horseradish, grating of potates and onions, etc.

Are latkes made from hand-grated potates and onions fleishig since they always end up with some "protein" (ahem) in them.

Thank goodness for the food processor.

[bloviatrix]

Are latkes made from hand-grated potates and onions fleishig since they always end up with some "protein" (ahem) in them.

Thank goodness for the food processor.

Seriously, there's a 1/60th rule. So, if you're making chicken soup and you accidentally drop a little milk into it, so long as it's 1/60th of the total, you haven't treyfed it up.

[Pan]

Funny stuff about grinding horseradish, Irwin. These were my favorite lines:

The Mariach actually smiled at my distress, as if it was a coming of age. Maybe it was, since i've never Ground Horseradish ever again.

[QuinaQuen]

Anyone ever imagine what the world would be like if Sigmund Freud had been born before Moses? Ah, probably about the same. A food neurosis is a food neurosis, whether it is codified in an ancient text or not.

[KatieLoeb]

Funny stuff about grinding horseradish, Irwin. These were my favorite lines:

The Mariach actually smiled at my distress, as if it was a coming of age. Maybe it was, since i've never Ground Horseradish ever again.

I make fresh horseradish every Passover, only I do it in the food processor (first shred, the chop) instead of a grinder. The effect is the same. In fact, I've taken to wearing ski goggles while preparing it. Taking the top off the processor is akin to setting off a tear gas bomb in the kitchen. I've had my cats sit up on their haunches, take a sniff skyward and BOLT up the stairs like banshees when I'm playing with the Evil Root.

But if it doesn't make you cry it ain't worth a damn, I say!

[QuinaQuen]

Funny stuff about grinding horseradish, Irwin. These were my favorite lines:

The Mariach actually smiled at my distress, as if it was a coming of age. Maybe it was, since i've never Ground Horseradish ever again.

I make fresh horseradish every Passover, only I do it in the food processor (first shred, the chop) instead of a grinder. The effect is the same. In fact, I've taken to wearing ski goggles while preparing it. Taking the top off the processor is akin to setting off a tear gas bomb in the kitchen. I've had my cats sit up on their haunches, take a sniff skyward and BOLT up the stairs like banshees when I'm playing with the Evil Root.

But if it doesn't make you cry it ain't worth a damn, I say!

Yeah, food should hurt sometimes. Try doing Red Savina habaneros in the blender.

Just a hint: A touch of vinegar in the mix intensifies the atmospheric sneezles. Warm it up, and it's even more fun. Do it in a crowded kitchen, and go for distance!

[wesza]

Funny stuff about grinding horseradish, Irwin. These were my favorite lines:

The Mariach actually smiled at my distress, as if it was a coming of age. Maybe it was, since i've never Ground Horseradish ever again.

I make fresh horseradish every Passover, only I do it in the food processor (first shred, the chop) instead of a grinder. The effect is the same. In fact, I've taken to wearing ski goggles while preparing it. Taking the top off the processor is akin to setting off a tear gas bomb in the kitchen. I've had my cats sit up on their haunches, take a sniff skyward and BOLT up the stairs like banshees when I'm playing with the Evil Root.

But if it doesn't make you cry it ain't worth a damn, I say!

Katy: THAT STUFF IS FANTASTIC! HORSERADISH EFFECTS ALWAYS DOUBLE THINGS. Tear GAS Bomb is very appropiate. Possably more effective then MACE?

Just posting and thinking about it makes you double up your posts without rationale. Has this ever happened before?

Now we are learning what the good "Rabbi Ribeye" ment when he coined the word " Xenofoodia".

Also may explaying the term "Cat Footing".

But i'll always forgive the Evil Root and it's cousin "Wasabi". When applied to Gefelte Fish, Roast Beef or even mixed with Mustard or as i've been informed if dyed green and applied to Sushi as a modestly priced Wasabi.

My Aunt once planted it in her Garden, didn't pay attention and the Horse Radish took her garden over in no time. At least that's what she said.

Irwin

'

[KatieLoeb]

Funny stuff about grinding horseradish, Irwin. These were my favorite lines:

The Mariach actually smiled at my distress, as if it was a coming of age. Maybe it was, since i've never Ground Horseradish ever again.

I make fresh horseradish every Passover, only I do it in the food processor (first shred, the chop) instead of a grinder. The effect is the same. In fact, I've taken to wearing ski goggles while preparing it. Taking the top off the processor is akin to setting off a tear gas bomb in the kitchen. I've had my cats sit up on their haunches, take a sniff skyward and BOLT up the stairs like banshees when I'm playing with the Evil Root.

But if it doesn't make you cry it ain't worth a damn, I say!

Yeah, food should hurt sometimes. Try doing Red Savina habaneros in the blender.

Just a hint: A touch of vinegar in the mix intensifies the atmospheric sneezles. Warm it up, and it's even more fun. Do it in a crowded kitchen, and go for distance!

Erik:

You are a strange and demented man. I think I like that about you...

Atmospheric sneezles??? Now there's a turn of phrase!

I have heated up dried ancho chiles in a dry pan to toast them a bit and then covered and poached them in sherry vinegar. That'll clear the kitchen pretty quick too! And make you cough like you've been in a neurotoxic gas attack.

[wesza]

Funny stuff about grinding horseradish, Irwin. These were my favorite lines:

The Mariach actually smiled at my distress, as if it was a coming of age. Maybe it was, since i've never Ground Horseradish ever again.

I make fresh horseradish every Passover, only I do it in the food processor (first shred, the chop) instead of a grinder. The effect is the same. In fact, I've taken to wearing ski goggles while preparing it. Taking the top off the processor is akin to setting off a tear gas bomb in the kitchen. I've had my cats sit up on their haunches, take a sniff skyward and BOLT up the stairs like banshees when I'm playing with the Evil Root.

But if it doesn't make you cry it ain't worth a damn, I say!

Yeah, food should hurt sometimes. Try doing Red Savina habaneros in the blender.

Just a hint: A touch of vinegar in the mix intensifies the atmospheric sneezles. Warm it up, and it's even more fun. Do it in a crowded kitchen, and go for distance!

Erik:

You are a strange and demented man. I think I like that about you...

Atmospheric sneezles??? Now there's a turn of phrase!

I have heated up dried ancho chiles in a dry pan to toast them a bit and then covered and poached them in sherry vinegar. That'll clear the kitchen pretty quick too! And make you cough like you've been in a neurotoxic gas attack.

What would you classify me as since i'd try the same thing with "Scotch Bonnets".

That would really be a tear jerker.

Use a Olive Oil to really bring out the Heat and the Chili Oils.

Then when they surface add a little vinegar [just enough to temper the heat].

Cover the Top tightly and after the fumes settle they will be absorbed into the oil to make a powerfull codiment.

Some day i'll publish the recipe for the 10 Star Sauce labled "Sudden Death" that my staff drew with a Skull and Crossbones.

The Artist is now one of Hawaii's top Chefs.

Irwin

Edited January 17, 2004 by wesza (log)

[bloviatrix]

Funny stuff about grinding horseradish, Irwin. These were my favorite lines:

The Mariach actually smiled at my distress, as if it was a coming of age. Maybe it was, since i've never Ground Horseradish ever again.

I make fresh horseradish every Passover, only I do it in the food processor (first shred, the chop) instead of a grinder. The effect is the same. In fact, I've taken to wearing ski goggles while preparing it. Taking the top off the processor is akin to setting off a tear gas bomb in the kitchen. I've had my cats sit up on their haunches, take a sniff skyward and BOLT up the stairs like banshees when I'm playing with the Evil Root.

But if it doesn't make you cry it ain't worth a damn, I say!

I remember the first and only time I made it in the food processor. I swear, I singed my nasal passages.

Now, mil in makes it. The woman has the most sensitive stomach you have ever encountered. But for some reason, she can eat horseradish with nary a problem.

[Rabbi Ribeye]

Whenever I can get my mind clear (freshly grated horseradish may do that quicker than my daily cocktail of Effexor and Lamictal), I will regale you in stories of my uncle Harry, the Bootleg Horseradish Czar of the Old Northwest Side, who defined Chicago horseradish throughout the New Deal.

[Pan]

I'll look forward to that. Perhaps it'll be another Daily Gullet article?

[Rabbi Ribeye]

I'll look forward to that. Perhaps it'll be another Daily Gullet article?

Honored by your comment, O Great Flutist. (Why can I not get the immortal Zamfir out of my mind when I see "Pan" and "flute" in the same posting? )

Many tales to tell of Uncle Harry, the horseradish legacy being the only culinary one. Ya want eccentric? Harry was also the man who attempted to practice do-it-yourself orthodontia.

Then there were Cousins Penny the Nearly Bohemian and Shirley the Red.

More meiselach to follow.

Edited January 22, 2004 by Rabbi Ribeye (log)

[Pan]

I'll look forward to that. Perhaps it'll be another Daily Gullet article?

Honored by your comment, O Great Flutist. (Why can I not get the immortal Zamfir out of my mind when I see "Pan" and "flute" in the same posting? )

Oy, vey!

[QuinaQuen]

Funny stuff about grinding horseradish, Irwin. These were my favorite lines:

The Mariach actually smiled at my distress, as if it was a coming of age. Maybe it was, since i've never Ground Horseradish ever again.

I make fresh horseradish every Passover, only I do it in the food processor (first shred, the chop) instead of a grinder. The effect is the same. In fact, I've taken to wearing ski goggles while preparing it. Taking the top off the processor is akin to setting off a tear gas bomb in the kitchen. I've had my cats sit up on their haunches, take a sniff skyward and BOLT up the stairs like banshees when I'm playing with the Evil Root.

But if it doesn't make you cry it ain't worth a damn, I say!

Yeah, food should hurt sometimes. Try doing Red Savina habaneros in the blender.

Just a hint: A touch of vinegar in the mix intensifies the atmospheric sneezles. Warm it up, and it's even more fun. Do it in a crowded kitchen, and go for distance!

Erik:

You are a strange and demented man. I think I like that about you...

Atmospheric sneezles??? Now there's a turn of phrase!

I have heated up dried ancho chiles in a dry pan to toast them a bit and then covered and poached them in sherry vinegar. That'll clear the kitchen pretty quick too! And make you cough like you've been in a neurotoxic gas attack.

What would you classify me as since i'd try the same thing with "Scotch Bonnets".

That would really be a tear jerker.

Use a Olive Oil to really bring out the Heat and the Chili Oils.

Then when they surface add a little vinegar [just enough to temper the heat].

Cover the Top tightly and after the fumes settle they will be absorbed into the oil to make a powerfull codiment.

Some day i'll publish the recipe for the 10 Star Sauce labled "Sudden Death" that my staff drew with a Skull and Crossbones.

The Artist is now one of Hawaii's top Chefs.

Irwin

Watch the skull and crossbones; the nastier the name, the more weenificicatious the sauce. Don't believe me? Check out the Mo'Hotta Mo'Betta' ouevre and see if a nasty name don't indicate a sissy sauce. That's why our secret, request-only Red Savina sauce is called "Happy Flavor Sauce." And for the record, Scotch Bonnets are nothing but unripe habaneros. They taste good, they work well with that poor old British-influenced Jamaican cuisine, but they are a poor relation to the real thing.

[Rabbi Ribeye]

Amen, Amen, AMEN, my friend!

Those silly "hotter-than-hot" hot-sauce shoppes in places like New Orleans are nothing but tourist traps for the camera-clicking crowd who want the folks back home to believe that the quality of Cajun/Creole rises in tandem with its heat quotient.

The real intensity of hot sauce is a little like the locker-room prating about sexual prolificacy: Those who boast the loudest rarely get it. Those who keep it to themselves do not have to boast; they are the real lotharios.

. . . and no, that is NOT written in the Talmud . . . I think.

[marlena spieler]

i like floyds hot lime sauce based on key lime and habanero chillies. floyd was a publisher who was once going to publish one of my books, but the publishing deal didn't work out. . the hot sauce on the other hand: fabuloso. not sure where you buy it, but anyone interested could probably contact the publisher : bay books in san fran, the guys name floyd. tell em marlena (roving feast in sf chron) sent you.

meanwhile, loved the whole jewish mother food crazienss shtick, oh, why do my people have such meshuganah attitudes about food, and why can't they just enjoy, enjoy? my mother--and father, too, and well, basically all of my immediate relatives--think that anything that comes from my kitchen is poison. the reason being something other than the food i am sure. also because i use fresh herbs which parents are very suspicious of, and also olive oil which is also suspicious. they can cope with soy sauce because for some reason chinese food seems jewish to all except father who grew up with terrifying stories of what goes into the chinese kitchen. we on the other hand grew up knowing that anything with soy sauce, or hot sauce (we grew up in california) was the way to go and a definate improvement on anything else that was cookin in mom's kitchen.

so you know, i always want to feed those i love, but with my family i should just give up. and i've written a pile of cookbooks. buy oh, still it hurts! if only they could love my food like others do........

i've even caught my mother telling my (grown) daughter: don't eat your mothers food, its not healthy. something ain't healthy, ma, but i don't think the food has anything to do with it.

never mind. grandmother was fabulous cook. my uncle is still a legendary eater. and my aunt is a total legend in her own right, famous for her leftovers. she cannot leave a restaurant without leftovers and can't let anyone else. sometimes you might drive past their house and see a take away bag tied to their front door--friends are leaving their own doggie bags for her. she brings the little bits and pieces out for very eclectic lunchs. good fun. i think she will eat anything, a trait i admire in people

anyhow two little titbits about grinding fresh horseradish for those knaidlach:

1. Use a gas mask. I discovered this trick after some very gassy student riots in Berkeley.

2. Or Forget horseradish entirely and enjoy your matzo balls with chile salsa. Used to do this at a cafe I once ran, we had a different homemade hot sauce every day, and fresh matzo balls every day, and kinda got addicted to the combination. Its very yummy, in the chicken soup too. use zchug for a truly jewish ta'am in the israeli eastern sort of way.

[Rabbi Ribeye]

One caveat about my mother and Xenofoodia -- perhaps the exception to prove the rule:

My dad had been hospitalized. On the way back from visiting him, I coaxed my mother to join me for dinner at a local Thai bistro. Despite her initial reluctance, she went absolutely nuts for the meal, particularly the pad see ew and choo chee pla.

Her epitaph on the dinner, though, was, "Your father would never stand for this." spoken with a deeply satisfied smile.