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ludja

Grinders, submarines, heroes, hoagies

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Two things inspired me to start this thread. Sausage grinders (a memory from childhood) have been lingering on the edge of my mind for the last few months--and then I saw this link:

sausage sub link

Second, after a very food-successful visit to Philly over New Years I broused the PA boards and found a grinder that necessitates a trip back to Philly to try:

roast pork w/aged provolone and sauteed bitter greens (like broccoli raab)...

I was so delighted to hear about this combination that I wondered what other great grinder combinations I had never heard of!

Please share.

I'll start w/one other one: egg and pepper grinder


"Under the dusty almond trees, ... stalls were set up which sold banana liquor, rolls, blood puddings, chopped fried meat, meat pies, sausage, yucca breads, crullers, buns, corn breads, puff pastes, longanizas, tripes, coconut nougats, rum toddies, along with all sorts of trifles, gewgaws, trinkets, and knickknacks, and cockfights and lottery tickets."

-- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, 1962 "Big Mama's Funeral"

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My sister makes one that is delish! She takes a sub roll, puts garlic butter on it and pops it in the broiler until toasty. Then she takes assorted deli meat, some good mustard and some provolone and/or mozzarella cheese, and puts it on the garlicky bread and pops that in the boiler until the cheese is warm and bubbly. I added to it by adding some torn romaine, tomatoes and sometimes onion, tossing it in a nice vinaigrette, and putting that on the sandwich before eating. It's pretty much your meal for the day! :biggrin:

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Whatever meat(s) and cheese(s) go on, it's just not right for me if it doesn't have marinated artichokes as well.

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"Grinder" is a name for a sandwich? I've never heard this before.

What is its origins?


"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

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"Grinder" is a name for a sandwich? I've never heard this before.

What is its origins?

A grinder is a large sandwich, usually served on a small loaf of "Italian" or "French" bread. Also known as a submarine, sub, hero, hoagie, po' boy, etc.


--

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I went to school in MA, and they called them grinders there. Maybe it is a New England thing?

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I grew up in Boston, and we always called them subs. I saw a show once that explained where the different names came from, but I can't remember.


--

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My friend from Connecticut (now from Mass) maintains that grinder is a New Engkand term, and if I haven't seen "grinder" listed in every sub place in New England, I've never seen it anywhere else.

Mrs. Busboy has a recipe for an absolutely inauthentic Italian sub that is utterly addictive, passed down from her mom.

The bun should be, ideally, Pepperidge Farm Club Rolls -- hard dinner rolls -- fried, crust side up in butter and garlic powder. Then add white American cheese, provolone, proscuitto, thin-sliced hard salami, red onion, tomatoe, lettuce and Wishbone Italian dressing. The rolls should be hard enough that your gums are shredded by the time you finish, and there should be enough cured meet that you're dehydrated for a week.

Sadly, Pepperidge Farm no longer makes the "long" rolls, (4" or so) so we've had to start using lesser bread. But they still make a spectacular meal, especially washed back with a couple of bottles of cheap chianti while watching a Robert DiNero movie.


I'm on the pavement

Thinking about the government.

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"Grinder" is a name for a sandwich? I've never heard this before.

What is its origins?

This is the term I grew up with in CT; but I never knew the history, other than it seemed like it had Italian immigrant orgins. The 'typical' grinder was with Italian sausages, grilled onions and roasted peppers, sometimes with cheese added on a long crusty roll. Other warm ones are meatball, or egg and grilled peppers... I always remember the 'warm' ones but the term is with cold sandwiches on a long roll as well.

Found this on the net (pretty interesting!):

"The term "Grinder" can be traced back to the East Coast, where, during WWII Italian immigrants setup sandwich shops close to the shipyards. Their freshly baked Italian rolls were filled with generous amounts of meats and cheeses and were then baked and garnished with lettuce and tomato. These super-sized sandwiches were a favorite of the hard working men who ground rivets off the warships. The friendly shop owners referred to the men as grinders and the ever popular sandwiches also came to be known as Grinders."

Also found a few other terms in my search: Dagwoods (forgot about those), Torpedos and Rockets!

click

Guess we could also add Po'boys !


Edited by ludja (log)

"Under the dusty almond trees, ... stalls were set up which sold banana liquor, rolls, blood puddings, chopped fried meat, meat pies, sausage, yucca breads, crullers, buns, corn breads, puff pastes, longanizas, tripes, coconut nougats, rum toddies, along with all sorts of trifles, gewgaws, trinkets, and knickknacks, and cockfights and lottery tickets."

-- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, 1962 "Big Mama's Funeral"

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hmm..that sounds like the same reason they were called submarines.


Edited by tryska (log)

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In Canada they're just called subs.

Heros are gyros, with pita.


"I've caught you Richardson, stuffing spit-backs in your vile maw. 'Let tomorrow's omelets go empty,' is that your fucking attitude?" -E. B. Farnum

"Behold, I teach you the ubermunch. The ubermunch is the meaning of the earth. Let your will say: the ubermunch shall be the meaning of the earth!" -Fritzy N.

"It's okay to like celery more than yogurt, but it's not okay to think that batter is yogurt."

Serving fine and fresh gratuitous comments since Oct 5 2001, 09:53 PM

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There are 2 subs I consider as the standard.

The cold sub is a Italian cold cut sub that is a mixture of capicolli, Genoa salami, mortadella, and mozzarella cheese, The sub is topped with sliced lettuce onion and tomatoes. The sub is dusted with a mixture mostly made up of ground oregano and drizzled with oil.

The other standard sub is a steak and pepperoni hot sub. The sub is made with thinly sliced beef and pepperoni that is grilled then mozzarella cheese is allowed to melt on top. The sub is topped with grilled onions, sliced lettuce, and tomatoes. The sub is dusted with a mixture mostly made up of ground oregano and drizzled with oil.

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A "regular" grinder is a salami grinder and always has been, here in CT. It is made with cooked salami, provalone cheese, sliced tomatoes and iceburg lettuce that has been sliced thin, mixed with salt and pepper and olive oil.

For the best one imaginable, visit Bennedito's near Electric Boat Shipyard in Groton, CT. It is a tiny little place but well renouned in the area as the best. Just look at the line at noon, that says it all!

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First, let's get the order right. Hoagies, being the ultimate version of the sandwich, must get top billing.

Second, while Tommy DiNic's sliced pork with aged provolone and greens is assuredly worth a trip to Philadelphia, it is simply called a pork sandwich, not a hoagie. Tony Luke's and John's do excellent sandwiches too. But Tommy rules.

Hoagies got their names one of two ways.

1. There is an area, south of the city know as Hog Island. Back in the early 1900's, a lot of ship builders worked on Hog Island, many of them Italian. Wives packed lunchs of bread and meats. The guys and their sandwiches were know as Hoggies which evolved to hoagies.

2. Same time era there where street vendors known as hokie pokie men. They took to hollowing out bread and filling it with an antipasto of sorts. Hokey's. Eventually became Hoagies.

Hoagie History


Holly Moore

"I eat, therefore I am."

HollyEats.Com

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First, let's get the order right. Hoagies, being the ultimate version of the sandwich, must get top billing.

Second, while Tommy DiNic's sliced pork with aged provolone and greens is assuredly worth a trip to Philadelphia, it is simply called a pork sandwich, not a hoagie. Tony Luke's and John's do excellent sandwiches too. But Tommy rules.

First, Grinders sound so much better.... :raz:

Second, after visiting Philly over New Years, I perused the PA boards here (I know, wrong order, but my host knows a lot of the ins and outs of food in Philly so it turned out great) and I discovered this famous roasted pork, aged provolone and sauteed greens sandwich. It sounds so fabulous; I told my friend back in PA and he had one since at Tommy DiNic's. He confirmed my suspicions, which is seconded by your post, that I need to get back to Philly to try this sandwich!!! (It was, in part, inspiration for this post). I think I will need to try and make my own version before then to satisfy this itch.

Just to clarify, it's called a sandwich, but it is served on a 'grinder' type roll, no?

Also, do you know if the roll is toasted or not?

And since you're here (hopefully), what kind of greens do they use? I've heard mention of broccoli raab...


"Under the dusty almond trees, ... stalls were set up which sold banana liquor, rolls, blood puddings, chopped fried meat, meat pies, sausage, yucca breads, crullers, buns, corn breads, puff pastes, longanizas, tripes, coconut nougats, rum toddies, along with all sorts of trifles, gewgaws, trinkets, and knickknacks, and cockfights and lottery tickets."

-- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, 1962 "Big Mama's Funeral"

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Just to clarify, it's called a sandwich, but it is served on a 'grinder' type roll, no?

Also, do you know if the roll is toasted or not?

And since you're here (hopefully), what kind of greens do they use? I've heard mention of broccoli raab...

There are no grinder rolls in Philadelphia. The sandwich goes on a hoagie or cheesesteak roll.

Tommy DiNic uses spinach sauted in oil and garlic. I'm pretty sure Tony Luke uses broccoli raab.

The rolls are not toasted.


Holly Moore

"I eat, therefore I am."

HollyEats.Com

Twitter

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"The term "Grinder" can be traced back to the East Coast, where, during WWII Italian immigrants setup sandwich shops close to the shipyards. Their freshly baked Italian rolls were filled with generous amounts of meats and cheeses and were then baked and garnished with lettuce and tomato. These super-sized sandwiches were a favorite of the hard working men who ground rivets off the warships. The friendly shop owners referred to the men as grinders and the ever popular sandwiches also came to be known as Grinders."

this is what i've always thought of grinders as.

Hot hoagies. Hoagies warmed in an (usually pizza) oven.


Herb aka "herbacidal"

Tom is not my friend.

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From what I can tell after 12 years in Cambridge, Mass, a grinder is a baked sub. Strangely, though nearly all sub shops have the word grinder somewhere on their signage, most people don't seem to use the word all that much. You wouldn't really order, for example, a "turkey grinder." Rather, a sub becomes a grinder with the directive "toasted". So you'd say "small turkey everything no lettuce" and the guy would say "cheese? toasted?" and you'd say yes and out would come a grinder.


"Tis no man. Tis a remorseless eating machine."

-Captain McAllister of The Frying Dutchmen, on Homer Simpson

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There are no grinder rolls in Philadelphia. The sandwich goes on a hoagie or cheesesteak roll.

Tommy DiNic uses spinach sauted in oil and garlic. I'm pretty sure Tony Luke uses broccoli raab.

The rolls are not toasted.

Thanks Holly for the answers ! :smile:

And I promise to respectfully refer to any sandwich I know to be native to Philadelphia as either "hoagie' or 'sandwich' as appropriate.

At least on my posts... :laugh:


"Under the dusty almond trees, ... stalls were set up which sold banana liquor, rolls, blood puddings, chopped fried meat, meat pies, sausage, yucca breads, crullers, buns, corn breads, puff pastes, longanizas, tripes, coconut nougats, rum toddies, along with all sorts of trifles, gewgaws, trinkets, and knickknacks, and cockfights and lottery tickets."

-- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, 1962 "Big Mama's Funeral"

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two people have mentioned the egg and pepper grinder. i'm trying to figure this one out -- is it like a scrambled eggs and peppers thing on a hoagie/grinder/sub/sandwich/dagwood roll?

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two people have mentioned the egg and pepper grinder. i'm trying to figure this one out -- is it like a scrambled eggs and peppers thing on a hoagie/grinder/sub/sandwich/dagwood roll?

like an italian egg hero almost, if i'm not mistaken. generally scrambled.

there was (is?) a place in NJ that served only egg sandwiches (i don't remember if they had peppers though). i think it opened at 9 pm, catering to the post-pub crowd.


Edited by tommy (log)

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two people have mentioned the egg and pepper grinder. i'm trying to figure this one out -- is it like a scrambled eggs and peppers thing on a hoagie/grinder/sub/sandwich/dagwood roll?

like an italian egg hero almost, if i'm not mistaken. generally scrambled.

there was (is?) a place in NJ that served only egg sandwiches (i don't remember if they had peppers though). i think it opened at 9 pm, catering to the post-pub crowd.

It's been awhile, but as I remember it, basically scrambled eggs w/roasted peppers added in. When we made something like it at home, we used green bell peppers, but I think at restaurants they might used, what at least used to be called, "Italian Frying Peppers". Not sure if they are still called that. In any case, not a pepper with a huge amount of heat.

Might also add grilled onions to this grinder/sub.

Some people above that mentioned grinders are usually 'heated up'. This fits in with my recollection. Although, I thinks lots of places served both and may have called them all grinders. A common type place I remember having them was in pizza places (with ovens...).

Also used to get tuna in a grinder roll w/cheese, olive oil, pepper and vinegar and heated up to melt the cheese...


"Under the dusty almond trees, ... stalls were set up which sold banana liquor, rolls, blood puddings, chopped fried meat, meat pies, sausage, yucca breads, crullers, buns, corn breads, puff pastes, longanizas, tripes, coconut nougats, rum toddies, along with all sorts of trifles, gewgaws, trinkets, and knickknacks, and cockfights and lottery tickets."

-- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, 1962 "Big Mama's Funeral"

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Whatever meat(s) and cheese(s) go on, it's just not right for me if it doesn't have marinated artichokes as well.

for me it's cherry peppers or hot cherry pepper relish.


from overheard in new york:

Kid #1: Paper beats rock. BAM! Your rock is blowed up!

Kid #2: "Bam" doesn't blow up, "bam" makes it spicy. Now I got a SPICY ROCK! You can't defeat that!

--6 Train

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Whatever meat(s) and cheese(s) go on, it's just not right for me if it doesn't have marinated artichokes as well.

for me it's cherry peppers or hot cherry pepper relish.

I agree on the hot cherry pepper relish; I haven't had much luck finding that out here (N. CA). I should probably check up at some of the Italian groceries in SF though, like Molinari's.

The marinated artichokes sounds very good too!!

Related: Recently had a great cherry pepper snack/antipasto at Reading Terminal Market in Philadelphia: roasted cherry peppers stuffed w/proscuitto and mozzarella. A little grinder with out the hoagie... :smile:

???A hoagie popper???

(see Holly, I'm being careful in all Philly references....)


Edited by ludja (log)

"Under the dusty almond trees, ... stalls were set up which sold banana liquor, rolls, blood puddings, chopped fried meat, meat pies, sausage, yucca breads, crullers, buns, corn breads, puff pastes, longanizas, tripes, coconut nougats, rum toddies, along with all sorts of trifles, gewgaws, trinkets, and knickknacks, and cockfights and lottery tickets."

-- Gabriel Garcia Marquez, 1962 "Big Mama's Funeral"

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