Cognac Beginner

[cdh]

Have just done an experiment of sorts on the glassware issue and can report that Cognac does certainly taste different in tall glasses as opposed to balloon glasses.

I called into service a traditional balloon glass and one of my Amazon bargain Riedel Overture spirits glasses (from which I'd never thought to drink Cognac before this evening.)

I splashed a bit of cognac at room temperature into the Riedel (granted room temp in that part of the house at this time of evening is 61F), and gave it a try. The vanilla tones from the oak came out very very clearly in the first whiff. The fruity tones were quite muted in the nose, and didn't come out until the cognac hit my tongue. The flavor was a bit muted, but that may be temperature.

I then poured the booze into the balloon, and inhaled. I see how that could bother some people's olfactory senses... When I inhaled too deeply the aromatic vapor came followed by harsh alcohol that had a burn. So a less deep inhalation over the balloon presented what seemed to me to be a more rounded nose, with the vanilla and woody tones met by fruity tones as well. As it warmed more (room temp in this part of the house is about 68F, and I did hold the balloon in my palm) thie effect increased.

In pouring back and forth between the glasses, I find that I still prefer the balloon over the Riedel spirits glass. The flavor is more rounded and less sharp from the balloon glass than from the riedel. I'm really curious about the Riedel Cognac specific tulips, since my Riedel spirits glass had no tulip flare at the top and that might make a big difference.

So, for a beginning cognac drinker, I'd recommend a balloon over any random tall glass. They're dirt cheap at Ikea, and they play well enough with cognac to keep me happy right now.

[beans]

If I was just in a restaurant, where the difference is 15 dollars between a glass of V.S. and X.O., is it worth it for the cognac "newbie" to get the X.O.? Or am I not well-versed enough to appreciate it?

I'd start in the middle. Perhaps one that is a VSOP? The more it is aged, the smoother and more mellow it becomes. If you started with a XO, it might ruin you for anything else (ummm, speaking from experience I tasted -- Remy, Courvossier, Hennessy XO and Paradis, Martell and Davidoff's aged cognacs during my first introduction to the lovely spirit).

Or if you are brave, give a VS a try and you've got nothing but bigger and better things to move on to trying.

Taste them and post your notes here!

[jhlurie]

In my opinion, a good "starter" cognac (and a good "everyday" one afterwards) is Pierre Ferrand Ambre, which is approximately a VSOP in quality, although they don't seem to use that labeling. Better yet, it's inexpensive for a cognac, and yet despite that still very representative of what will appeal to you if are bound to like cognac brandies. In other words, it won't be a revelation, but it will be a good indicator.

[Jason Perlow]

In my opinion, a good "starter" cognac (and a good "everyday" one afterwards) is Pierre Ferrand Ambre, which is approximately a VSOP in quality, although they don't seem to use that labeling.  Better yet, it's inexpensive for a cognac, and yet despite that still very representative of what will appeal to you if are bound to like cognac brandies.  In other words, it won't be a revelation, but it will be a good indicator.

Ambre is good but really, I like it for Stingers.

I like the "Reserve" (20 year average age), one level up for straight up drinking. But what I really want to try is either a Selection Des Anges (30 year old average age), Abel (45 year average age) or Ancestrale (70 years!!!). But most liquor stores dont carry the upper end Ferrand.

Besides Ferrand, Gabriel and Andreu own a few other boutique Cognac houses, including some under its own name, the ones I have tried are also very good.

My favorite XO cognac in house right now is Hine Antique, which if you can find it for about $75-$80 a bottle, blows Remy XO and most other XO cognacs out of the water. There's a very good reason why its the cognac of the house of Windsor.

Here is one of the oldest threads on the site about Cognac, Armagnac and other brandies:

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=5579

[beans]

Thanks for your comments, and link, Jason. I have learned from reading older threads about your recommendations. I also know I've only started on a journey of tasting, understanding and enjoying.

I also truly enjoy the mission to try the less commercial but wonderful producers of some of the particular spirits in which you have tasted and/or written about.

Oooooh, selfishly all great stuff shaping up for 2004 adventures. I've tasted some goodies, I really look forward to something that will blow my socks off.

[trillium]

Calvados also should be mentioned on this thread. Made from distilled fermented apple cider, in Normandy, I believe. Hors d'Age and Pays d'Auge are the two types that I recall. The more readily available brands are Busnel and Broulard, iwth Busnel being my favorite.

Coeur de Lion is a nice brand too.

regards,

trillium

[Chad]

All right, I realize that this is not "Cognac" cognac, but what do y'all think of Germain Robin? I'm a big fan of their $35 alembic brandy and prefer it to many of the Cognacs I've tasted. Any expert opinions?

Chad

[Carolyn Tillie]

All right, I realize that this is not "Cognac" cognac, but what do y'all think of Germain Robin? I'm a big fan of their $35 alembic brandy and prefer it to many of the Cognacs I've tasted. Any expert opinions?

Chad

Yeah, I know that Alembic is not Cognac, but I do know that Shawn likes it and has purchased several vineyard-specific Germain Robin bottles, liking them a great deal.

Before they went belly-up, he was also a big fan of Remy Martin's California version of Alembic (then-known as RMS Distillery). He is coveting a bottle of their version of an XO as it is no more!

[QuinaQuen]

Too bad I've never been able to afford the truly expensive V.O.s. One thing I have found, though, is that an inexpensive V.O. (say, Raynal) is still harsher than a V.S.O.P. from Hennessey or Courvoisier. If I ever get unbroke, I'll report back on the good stuff.

And yes, a balloon glass does lay too much on the olfactories when it comes to the better stuff. Take it from a boozehound.

[Chris Cognac]

This always seemed to me like a subject I should know something about since I am asked at least 3 times a day if I like it....but alas, I have little knowledge about Cognac, other than its my last name, is good in French Onion Soup and I dont seem to have a claim to any money or other stuff related to it

[beans]

My favorite XO cognac in house right now is Hine Antique, which if you can find it for about $75-$80 a bottle, blows Remy XO and most other XO cognacs out of the water. There's a very good reason why its the cognac of the house of Windsor.

A little peek into the locked liquor cabinet at the upper bar last night I spotted that mysterious blue ceramic bottle with the deer on it.

It is Hine XO.

Sombody broke a part of the cork on it!!!!

That certain somebody being our owner.

Grrrr.

[jhlurie]

This always seemed to me like a subject I should know something about since I am asked at least 3 times a day if I like it....but alas, I have little knowledge about Cognac, other than its my last name, is good in French Onion Soup and I dont seem to have a claim to any money or other stuff related to it

But you have no excuse, Chris. Some decent Cognac's (and many of the similar brandies) are not that expensive. And they are available on both coasts!

[jpps1]

How much cognac should a bar pour you if you order a glass? Cause I think I got shorted my first time... 1.5 oz, it looked a little light....

[beans]

I think on average cognac pours are about 1 1/2 to 2 ounces.

edit: start the day with typos, end the day with typos!

Edited January 25, 2004 by beans (log)

[QuinaQuen]

This always seemed to me like a subject I should know something about since I am asked at least 3 times a day if I like it....but alas, I have little knowledge about Cognac, other than its my last name, is good in French Onion Soup and I dont seem to have a claim to any money or other stuff related to it

But you have no excuse, Chris. Some decent Cognac's (and many of the similar brandies) are not that expensive. And they are available on both coasts!

Uh, "both" coasts? As in, two important coasts? Ah, it's nothing new. Never mind.

[Stigand]

Personally, I often prefer a VSOP to an XO - especially given how expensive XO is. I've found the XOs I've tried (Hine, Remy Martin) have seemed over-refined and somehow too smooth in comparison to the VSOPs (for the same reason, I prefer Armagnac to Cognac). Is this just an idiosyncrasy of taste, or is there a different XO I should try that would convert me?

[beans]

How much cognac should a bar pour you if you order a glass? Cause I think I got shorted my first time... 1.5 oz, it looked a little light....

eeee-gads.

I forgot to ask the obvious. What cognac did you choose jpps1? How was it?

[jpps1]

I forgot to ask the obvious. What cognac did you choose jpps1? How was it?

Well, I was in the mood at a bar, so they didn't have a HUGE selection...Considering I'm a newbie, it's not the worst thing in the world...I had a Courvoisier VSOP...Harsher and stronger than I thought it would be, yet by far the best "strong" spirit I've ever had....Actually has a nice taste (and some class) to it.