Big Bucks From Low Carbs?

[Jinmyo]

Recognizing the size of the low-carb trend, nearly every part of the food industry, from manufacturers to restaurant chains, has introduced low-carb products.

[arjay]

I've been on the Atkins diet for over a week now. Everyone should invest in Immodium!

[Mabelline]

Well now, that made me feel SO much better. According to the market research group, the cattle industry won't be in any trouble if there's only one sick cow, because folks like the Atkins Diet. That's so comforting. Excuse me, I need to go put a nail in the wall with my head.

[John Whiting]

There is an intelligent and moderate version of the low carb diet, originated in the 19th century by William Banting and explained in an award-winning essay delivered by Dr. Barry Groves at last year's Oxford Food Symposium: http://www.second-opinions.co.uk/banting.html

But of course all the media attention goes to the widely hyped Atkins diet which takes off the pounds at an unhealthy rate by cutting out fruits and vegetables with their essential nutrients (and then selling dietary supplements at an inflated price).

What the food industry is now going after is weak-willed dieters-in-a-hurry who want the same old junk food with its ingredients magically transformed. They're like the vegetarians who gobble up ersatz burgers and sausages.

[Katherine]

Excepting, of course, the Atkins butter pecan ice cream, which is to die for.

[arjay]

Mr. Whiting....The treatise on Banting is very interesting and noteworthy. I would suggest now that you familiarize yourself with the Atkins Diet: its theory, execution, and studies that have been made on the decrease in cholesterol and blood pressure; and generally better health of those doing Atkins.

The diet can easily be done without purchasing anything from Atkins.

Edited January 4, 2004 by arjay (log)

[Katherine]

Mr. Whiting....The treatise on Banting is very interesting and noteworthy. I would suggest now that you familiarize yourself with the Atkins Diet: its theory, execution, and studies that have been made on the decrease in cholesterol and blood pressure; and generally better health of those doing Atkins.

The diet can easily be done without purchasing anything from Atkins.

Without cutting into your vegetable intake, either.

[Moopheus]

What the food industry is now going after is weak-willed dieters-in-a-hurry who want the same old junk food with its ingredients magically transformed. They're like the vegetarians who gobble up ersatz burgers and sausages.

Really? I had some of those ersatz sausages just this morning. I thought they were made mostly from nonmagical vegetable proteins, but I could be wrong; guess I'd better go back and check the package.

[mags]

But of course all the media attention goes to the widely hyped Atkins diet which takes off the pounds at an unhealthy rate by cutting out fruits and vegetables with their essential nutrients (and then selling dietary supplements at an inflated price).

For what it's worth, I'm on Atkins, and yesterday I ate raspberries, zucchini, a tomato, some onion, scallion, lettuce, and bean sprouts. Today my plan is to finish up the raspberries, and have a red pepper with my tuna salad for lunch, and a cucumber salad (with red onion and jalapeno peppers) with my chicken sate for dinner.

Before ripping into the "wildly hyped Atkins diet," you might want to look into what it actually involves. Denigrating something without checking the facts is no better than hyping it without checking.

[John Whiting]

Before ripping into the "wildly hyped Atkins diet," you might want to look into what it actually involves.  Denigrating something without checking the facts is no better than hyping it without checking.

I've checked it sufficiently to determine, for instance, that it relies heavily on ketosis, which results from dietary deficiencies of carbohydrate. At least one food writer of my acquaintance painfully and expensively lost a kidney as a result of it. Barry Groves' low carb diet avoids ketosis and allows -- indeed recommends -- up to 60 grams of carbohydrate per day (a couple of slices of bread, for example). Weight loss is in the region of a pound or two a week; more he considers to be excessive.

I'm not against low carb diets per se; in fact I followed Barry's diet for three months last year and lost twenty pounds eating the foods I love most. But in the case of, for instance, low-carb bread, my observation has told me that in the long run people who eat imitations of the foods they want to avoid find them to be temptations back to the originals. One food writer I admire calls them culinary porn.

[arjay]

Mr. Whiting.... It appears that you are satisfied to rely on your anecdotal examples to slam Atkins without delving into it. Not very admirable.

[Moopheus]

I've checked it sufficiently to determine, for instance, that it relies heavily on ketosis, which results from dietary deficiencies of carbohydrate.

It's not necessary to check very far to know that--that's one of the most fundamental facts about low-carb dieting. It's how they 'work'--forcing the body to burn fat by depriving it of carbs. That this produces toxins damaging to the kidneys was generally not emphasised by Dr. Atkins.

Weight loss is in the region of a pound or two a week; more he considers to be excessive.

I think most nutritionists these days would recommend not trying to lose faster than that, for basic metabolic reasons. But that rate of loss can be achieved simply by not overeating and getting moderate excercise; no special diets required at all. As far as I can tell, no diet scheme has ever really done better than eating a nutritionally balanced diet, not overeating, not eating too much junk food, and getting off your ass once in a while. Which is exactly what I plan to do as soon as I finish off the nine-pound slab of chocolate I've got in the fridge.

Edited January 4, 2004 by Moopheus (log)

[arjay]

Well now, that made me feel SO much better. According to the market research group, the cattle industry won't be in any trouble if there's only one sick cow, because folks like the Atkins Diet. That's so comforting. Excuse me, I need to go put a nail in the wall with my head.

Ms Mabelline....... I am not here to comfort you. Which food do you think will terrify you next, and which food industries would you like to see in trouble?

[Mabelline]

Gee, arjay, I guess you missed the sarcasm factor. I made a statement about what the marketing group managed to come up with.Lighten up.

[arjay]

Ms Mabelline....Consider me lightened up. I apologize.

Edited January 4, 2004 by arjay (log)

[Mabelline]

No problem, arjay. I frequently have to explain myself. I wonder what diet foot in mouth fits into.

[John Whiting]

It's not necessary to check very far to know that--that's one of the most fundamental facts about low-carb dieting. It's how they 'work'--forcing the body to burn fat by depriving it of carbs. That this produces toxins damaging to the kidneys was generally not emphasised by Dr. Atkins.

It's also not emphasized by Atkins that in ketosis, muscle as well as fat is consumed. But as I've already pointed out, Barry Groves' version of the low carb diet does *not* depend on ketosis. I find it an easy diet to follow because it emphasises the foods I most enjoy. Eating a variety of fruits and vegetables with reference to their glaecemic index avoids those which are most readily converted into starch, leading in turn to weight gain.

[Fresser]

Before ripping into the "wildly hyped Atkins diet," you might want to look into what it actually involves.  Denigrating something without checking the facts is no better than hyping it without checking.

I've checked it sufficiently to determine, for instance, that it relies heavily on ketosis, which results from dietary deficiencies of carbohydrate. At least one food writer of my acquaintance painfully and expensively lost a kidney as a result of it.

I understand that due to their diet-induced ketosis, Atkins dieters must check their urine with chemical test strips.

This is a huge red flag to me. I have to check my blood sugar daily due to diabetes, but any diet that requires otherwise healthy individuals to check body fluids for chemical (im)balances sounds inherently dangerous.

By the way, I need carbohydrates in my diet, along with proteins, fruits & veggies. I combine my diet with an intense cycling regimen, and I'm a mighty healthy diabetic--WITHOUT eschewing carbohydrates.

[cakewalk]

Cycling my heart out in the gym a couple of hours ago, I caught a commercial on TV by Subway. It seems they now have an Atkins approved Subway sub! (Now that I think of it, they may have had this for a long time already but I only just heard of it.) It seems that the Atkins diet has undergone alot of changes since the man died, especially in its marketing.

I was on the Atkins diet when I graduated from college (about 30 years ago). I lost quite a bit of weight, but put it back on. I remember that I did not feel great while I was on the diet, and my doctor hated it because of the ketosis stuff (but I didn't pay attention to him). The low-carb diets that deliberately avoid a state of ketosis seem to make a lot more sense overall.

[Katherine]

It's not necessary to check very far to know that--that's one of the most fundamental facts about low-carb dieting. It's how they 'work'--forcing the body to burn fat by depriving it of carbs. That this produces toxins damaging to the kidneys was generally not emphasised by Dr. Atkins.

It's also not emphasized by Atkins that in ketosis, muscle as well as fat is consumed. But as I've already pointed out, Barry Groves' version of the low carb diet does *not* depend on ketosis. I find it an easy diet to follow because it emphasises the foods I most enjoy. Eating a variety of fruits and vegetables with reference to their glaecemic index avoids those which are most readily converted into starch, leading in turn to weight gain.

It's been shown that the ketosis argument is irrelevant. In other words, the theory's wrong, but the diet still somehow works, even when you're not in ketosis. Needs a new explanation.

Also, only starchy vegetables are forbidden on the Atkins regimen.

I checked out Barry Groves. I'm really impressed with that one-day menu plan where he has his fat intake at 70%. Maybe I'll buy the book, but I'd have to get it from Amazon.co.uk, so it'll be a while.

Fresser, read what he has to say about fat and the diet of an athlete.

Keep in mind when you're comparing Atkins to other weight-loss diets, that clinically or in real live, all 'diets' are difficult to stick with in the long term, to keep weight off, regardless of how much you may wish to think of them as lifestyle changes. So it doesn't make any difference if a doctor or nutritionist tells someone that they should just cut down on portions, or cut out fat, or give up meat, or whatever. If they can't stick to a diet, it's useless advice.

[John Whiting]

Keep in mind when you're comparing Atkins to other weight-loss diets, that clinically or in real live, all 'diets' are difficult to stick with in the long term, to keep weight off, regardless of how much you may wish to think of them as lifestyle changes. So it doesn't make any difference if a doctor or nutritionist tells someone that they should just cut down on portions, or cut out fat, or give up meat, or whatever. If they can't stick to a diet, it's useless advice.

There's the key, I think, and it makes our discussion largely academic. Remaining faithful to a diet is as quixotic as remaining faithful to a partner -- it depends on a whole sequence of ever-changing variables. Those with an iron will have no difficulty with either. Dietwise, it's necessary to find something that turns you on to being turned off.

[Jonathan Day]

After about 6 months on an Atkins-esque plan, I have evolved a regime that feels comfortable, doesn't mess up the digestive system and seems to work for weight control. It focuses on fish, meats and vegetables, but includes some fruit. The big change from regimes of past years is that I no longer worry about fat -- so red meats, butter, avocadoes, eggs and cheese are all back on the menu.

For the most part I've avoided sweets, though I have made allowances for special events e.g. Christmas dinner. Bread, potatoes (and other starchy vegetables) and pasta have been trimmed way back -- if I bake a loaf of bread, I definitely try a small slice of it, but that's about it. No ersatz desserts, no artificial sweeteners. I experimented with "Splenda" which is sucralose, a reduced-carbohydrate sweetener. Too sweet for my taste, and in any event a reminder of how much I enjoy sweet things -- and hence a temptation to break the regime. I've felt free to eat green vegetables and salads virtually without limit. I've avoided all but small servings of sweet fruit, but will have an apple, or a few tomatoes without worry.

It seems to work. It does require exercise and a lot of water consumption, but those are good things in any event.

Atkins does recommend a two week "induction" programme where carbohydrates are cut to a tiny minimum. And they recommend returning to "induction" any time you've gone off the Atkins wagon. I've done "induction" but don't plan to redo it. It did give a big boost in energy, and, almost miraculously, my desire for sweets, which was once very strong, went away quickly.

The big benefits of a low(er)-carb regime, for me, have been weight loss, a marked increase in energy, better sleep, and the end of the horrible afternoon sugar swing and tiredness. And, though this is harder to assess, a general sense of calm and well being. Cholesterol readings have improved, just a bit, over the period.

[ExtraMSG]

Recognizing the size of the low-carb trend, nearly every part of the food industry, from manufacturers to restaurant chains, has introduced low-carb products.

Restaurants can do this smartly. There have even been some good and healthy trends come from it. eg, you can find things like mashed cauliflower instead of mashed potatoes as an option on menu. I sometimes like it better than mashed potatoes. Also, finding the very low-carb asparagus, one of my favorite vegetables, on menus has been great.

I worry, though, about all the low-carb stores popping up. Few diets last as a significant industry. I hope these people haven't invested too much in these stores selling crappy ice cream and overpriced soy flour.

I've checked it sufficiently to determine, for instance, that it relies heavily on ketosis, which results from dietary deficiencies of carbohydrate. At least one food writer of my acquaintance painfully and expensively lost a kidney as a result of it. Barry Groves' low carb diet avoids ketosis and allows -- indeed recommends -- up to 60 grams of carbohydrate per day (a couple of slices of bread, for example). Weight loss is in the region of a pound or two a week; more he considers to be excessive.

John, I think your understanding of Atkins may be based primarily on the "induction" phase of the diet. The South Beach diet has a similar phase at the beginning. My understanding is that its primary purpose is just to break the individual's "addiction" to carbs. This may be a case of unintended consequences, or the explanation not necessarily being true, but the results being desirable nonetheless.

That this produces toxins damaging to the kidneys was generally not emphasised by Dr. Atkins.

Moopheus, it's important to note that the effect of ketosis on the kidneys is contextual. I don't know how well Atkin's or other low-carb diet plans account for this. Hopefully, they help their dieters avoid the problems that can be associated with ketosis (I don't think it's ketosis directly, but the acidulating of the blood, that causes the problem). Anyway, look at this study:

http://atkins.com/Archive/2002/1/11-228300.html

Also, it's important to note that many of these low-carb diets raise the amounts of carbs that can be ingested and so the most extreme results of a low-carb diet should be lessened over time. The body can handle a lot for short periods and kidney stones should be much less of a worry to obese people, I think, than heart disease.

Even the best studies on low-carb dieting -- those by the NEJM -- haven't actually studied Atkin's or South Beach in particular. The diets are probably too variable for them, too contextual. Science likes to keep things simple so they do things like just set an amount of carbs per day. But in both of these low-carb diets, the dieter either doesn't have to count carbs or they can increase carbs throughout the diet trying to make it more of a "lifestyle change".