Dining Tables at Home

[Suzanne F]

. . . The kids stay seated until the adults are finished and then we remind them that they must ask to be excused. Our children are ages one and two years old.

As far as there being no "right" or "wrong" I respectfully disagree. The communal meal is an institution as old as humanity and I believe that there are ways that are better and worse to partake. I think TV draws those eating into separate, not communal experiences. . . . TV deprives those eating of the psychological, social, and spiritual benefits derived from a meal eaten together.

That's a couple of pretty precocious kids!

While I can't agree with you that there ARE "right" and "wrong" ways based on ancient institutions (remember, slavery goes back a long, long time, too), I agree that there are better and worse practices. And I heartily agree that TV is anathema to the positive experience of a meal together. But I'm curious: why not even music?

[Pan]

I'll say this: The radio was often on and playing classical music with dinner at my folks' place while I was growing up. The TV had to be turned off.

[jhlurie]

Even still, I can't hold a fork right though, so in some ways they were very relaxed.

Maybe you should try these. Or you could scroll down a bit on this site and find out that you are not wrong after all.

For what it's worth I agree with that columnist. How you hold a utensil means zero as long as the food gets to your mouth in a dignified and clean manner. This is a piece of etiquette I never quite understood why people got a bug up their butt about. I actually understand being strict with silverware setting much more, since the pattern of that has a logical significance.

And the "sporks" at that other link? Wow. Do people use sporks at home these days?

when the two of us eat together at my house or apartment, it's a sit-down meal with conversation.

It occurs to me that in my house more often we were too busy eating to talk. I'm just kidding... but this is one part of the dinner table ritual we probably weren't as strict on as many others, and it might have been to our detriment as far as family cohesion and communication go.

I add the following "question" to our informal poll. In addition to the issues of whether your own "training" as a kid still affects how you act in restaurants as an adult, and whether you currently use a dinner table for the same (or different) reasons, what about dinner conversation? How much does this vary among us? Is this part of that same "training" for children or something else entirely?

[Pan]

I think dinner conversation was to a large extent poor training for me. As the younger of two sons, no-one paid attention to me, so the only way I could get a word in edgewise was to try to yell louder than the others. You can imagine what that training in loud interruption did for me when I applied it in a school setting.

What was more useful was that I always asked questions, and my parents tended to take my questions seriously. Some of you have no doubt noticed that I still learn things by asking questions.

[Mayhaw Man]

And the "sporks" at that other link? Wow. Do people use sporks at home these days?

Here in Louisiana we use them regularly, but only when eating this stuff.

[docsconz]

My household seems to be remarkably similar to Mayhaw's, although I can't say that we sit down together every night since we generally don't if I am "on call". Barring that we sit down together usually about 7 or 8PM. My wife and I have three sons aged 14, 12 and 4.

In the winter we typically dine at our kitchen table which is set off a bit from the kitchen proper. In the summer we sit at a table in an enclosed porch adjacent to the kitchen. Our formal dining room is reserved for holidays or entertaining. We can fit a maximum of 16 people at that table with all the leaves in.

The tv is only on with specific sporting events. What can I say, we're also sports fans . Other than that it is never on during dinner. We do, however, frequently listen to music - usually jazz, classical, alternative or R&R from CD's.

The table is generally set by one of the boys, while either my wife or I are doing the cooking. We always start the meal with a toast in which each person is required to look the other in the eye while toasting. Children are eated until excused. Noone is required to eat any particular dish, although we do not cook anything specially for the children. If they don't eat respectably, though then dessert is forfeit. The boys generally have milk for dinner while my wife and I will usually share either a half or full bottle of wine depending on the night of the week and what else is going on. Each person is required to bus their own dishes. Either my wife or I or both of us clean the kitchen after while the boys finish homework or get ready for bed. Conversation is an integral part of the meal.

As the boys are getting older and their extracurricular activities are getting more involved, interruptions to this routine are unfortunatelybecoming more commonplace. so far these interruptions usually involve the absence of one or more of the boys, change in dinner hour and/or lack of wine because of post-dinner scheduling needs. Unfortunately, I imagine that this will only get worse.

[fresco]

Our kitchen is the centre of the house, no question. It has a large centre island with a couple of stools and a small table off to one side, which seats four. Most of our meals and a great deal of discussion takes place in the kitchen, although we do have a radio which is often tuned to a public affairs program and the news while dinner is being prepared. Lately, I've noticed that a laptop computer has crept in and is used regularly by my wife to scan news sites and occasionally by my son to listen to music.

The kitchen opens onto a rear deck with a natural gas fired Weber, which is used throughout the year. During the summer we dine most nights in the backyard, often wrestling with our son and his friends for the privilege.

Otherwise, almost all but the most ceremonial meals are taken in the kitchen. The dining room gets used, I'd say, less than a dozen times a year.

When ribs, pizza or a few other meals of this sort are being planned, I'm often informed by my son that "some" of his friends will be joining us. "Some" can mean up to six. They're mostly pretty helpful and unobtrusive. If there's a basketball game on, they help themselves and disappear into his basement lair.

We do have friends with a tv in every room in the house, including the kitchen. Madness.

[Cleo]

We eat in front of the TV at all times. And I do set the table, it just happens to be the coffee table. Our regular table is one those tables for 4 that you can fold down one side so that it takes up less space (we live in a small Manhattan one bedroom apartment). Even though there are only 2 of us, and we could actually sit at that table, there's always too much crap on it.

We have a ton of furniture in storage, including a dining room table for 10. I do look forward to the day when we actually have the space for it.

[hjshorter]

When she was younger, we'd always get seated with the other tables with children whenever we went out for dinner. It drove me crazy because the other children were usually bloody heathens.

We have friends that we will not go to restaurants with because their children get up and run around, and if they're doing it my kids will want to get down too.

We eat dinner together every day, at the dining room table. Ian (age 20 months) sits in his high chair with a tray, and Emma (age 4 1/2) has a special wooden chair with a footrest. If Emma wants to be excused she has to ask politely and clear her plate. Ian is excused when he starts throwing his meal. I don't make Emma sit until the grownups are finished. There's no TV in our dining room. Very occasionally we will eat in family room where the TV is, but only for the World Series or some other special event. We listen to the radio all the time though, NPR quiz shows, or music, or Prairie Home Companion on Saturday nights.

We have a breakfast bar in our kitchen and sometimes Emma will eat breakfast or lunch there while Ian is in his high chair in the kitchen.

Edited December 29, 2003 by hjshorter (log)

[bloviatrix]

Living in a Manhattan apartment, we have a dining area which is where we eat both our casual meals and our formal meals. Our table also serves as my husband's desk, as he has expanded beyond his office.

We dine formally on the sabbath - tablecloth, china, silver, etc. There are absolutely no distractions. The other days of the week are a different matter. Due to our schedules, we don't always eat together. If one of us actually made an effort and cooked, we try to push all the papers to one side and eat at the table. But at times, we sit on the couch and watch tv while eating. This is normally the case when watching a playoff game. Otherwise, I don't like the TV on during meals. We will have the radio on - either music or NPR.

This behavior is acceptable to us because we don't have children. But, once we start a family we hope to make meals a more formal event. Blovie and I agree that family mealtimes are important in developing manners, discipline and a time for conversation.

[Susan in FL]

We have an empty nest, but still do the same as when the kids were with us. We sit at the table to eat 99.9% of the time, and always with candle light, cloth napkins, etc. The exception is when we want to have dinner and a movie, or watch something in particular on TV, and the plan is to use the TV trays or our laps.

When the kids were with us, we always sat down for dinner together, even if after the ball games or practice, even if 10:00 PM, and the huge majority of the time I cooked from scratch, like I do now. It's not because of some deep conviction and strict adherence to rigid family values or allusions to religion. It's because we liked and still like that. My 25 year-old son still loves to remember and retell this.

I think TV draws those eating into separate, not communal experiences. When I think of the importance of holy communion to Christians, or of the Sabbath meal to Jews (I'm sure there are lots of similar examples from other traditions) I am reminded of how very central eating and its company and traditions are to our spirits. TV deprives those eating of the psychological, social, and spiritual benefits derived from a meal eaten together.

I think this is a heavy duty value judgement. In our home the TV is in view in the dining area, and is usually on. We often watch while we eat, and talk, and it does not deprive us of anything (it's an addition, not a deprivation) or draw us into noncommunal experience. We still connect. We still talk about things not related to the TV, or talk about what's on TV, or laugh at what's on TV. Usually it's Fox news or Jeopardy or a sports event when we're eating.

It seems fashionable to brag about not liking TV. If you don't like TV, that's fine. There is more bad TV than good TV, but still I get the feeling that some people get kicks from claiming they never watch it.

We never eat dinner not together. I can't imagine being home together, and eating in separate rooms or at different times. We eat on the porch February through mid-November, and yes we have a TV there, too, and often it's on.

[fresco]

TV is great. But it is, in my experience, not great for many of the reasons people often claim, or used to claim. It is wonderful entertainment, but lousy as an educational medium. And the news comes at you in such a jumble of image and emotion that it is worse than useless--it's often dangerously misleading.

At least with a newspaper or the Internet you can pause and say, "That's horseshit." And read it again, or move on.

[Jaymes]

I'm not going to talk in this thread about the way I ate while growing up, because I already talked about it in the How we ate growing up thread, and I encourage anyone participating in this thread who hasn't already looked at that one to check out. This thread is not a duplication of that thread, but that thread is relevant to this one.

I think the difference is that here we are specifically linking the idea of dinner table manners to the "fate" of children's eating habits going forward, as well as polling who does and does not currently use dinner tables. This topic is kind of a bridge between the "babies" topic and the one you linked to, and I suggest that if people want to dwell on either extreme (childhood experiences or restaurant decorum) they go to those suggested threads. Otherwise, here's the place to be.

You forgot "nanny nanny boo boo."

[Jensen]

Even still, I can't hold a fork right though, so in some ways they were very relaxed.

Wow! Did this sentence ever bring back a flood of memories! When I was a kid, we ate pretty much in the same manner that my family eats now (see above) but for one difference. My dad was a fiend about holding one's fork and knife correctly!

I haven't carried on that tradition...

[Pan]

I hold my fork the same way I hold a pencil or pen - "incorrectly." My Japanese friend also finds fault with how I hold my chopsticks (too high), but I think I hold them better than I hold a fork.

The main thing, though, is to get the food into the mouth.

[therdogg]

That's a couple of pretty precocious kids!

While I can't agree with you that there ARE "right" and "wrong" ways based on ancient institutions (remember, slavery goes back a long, long time, too), I agree that there are better and worse practices. And I heartily agree that TV is anathema to the positive experience of a meal together. But I'm curious: why not even music?

Not as precocious as you think. Our weekday meals are short, and when we finish if the littles start to fidget we say, "when we want to get down, we ask: 'may I please be excused?' " They may or may not approximate this request. If you look, I said that we remind them to ask; doesn't mean they always (or ever, for the 1yo) do! But I hope that the routine will become ingrained and that they will do it on their own soon- if you observe you'll notice lots of parents reminding their preverbal children to say please and thank-you even though they rarely comply.

Nothin' wrong with music- we just don't do it. Although I actually detest loud music with meals and I'm not that excited about music with words because it gets in the way of conversation. It's not something I'm against, just not something we do. Nice soft music in the background might be nice, and it might even cover up the sound of the 1yo blowing raspberries!

[deibu]

Growing up in the 80's, we had a table in the kitchen, and then a formal dining room with a table that was only used for special occasions. A lot of my friends did eat dinner in front of the TV and I guess I did envy them a little, but I definitely appreciate the fact that we sat down to a dinner with conversation every night. Of course, I realize this is not possible for a lot of families so it all depends on the situation...

[Mottmott]

When I was young the family (and everyone had to be there) ate in the kitchen unless we had company - no TV during meals. When my children were young we ate either in the dining room or the kitchen, with or without company - again, no TV during meals, but sometimes music.

Now when I live alone, it's always the dining room with company, sometimes without - never TV. Otherwise, snacky meals are had on the round marble table that was my mother's - sometimes TV. It depends on the menu. Some meals deserve the dining room. Others are enhanced by it. But if I order in pizza when I'm too tired to cook, it's always in bed in front of the TV. I only use the outdoor grill for parties or when someone else will tend it.

Oddly, I find that I use the dining room when alone more now that I have a nice old round table instead of a rectangular one. The room has a more intimate and inviting feel to it. Or perhaps it reminds me of my live-alone graduate school days when I had a round oak table in a round bay in an old brick Victorian that has since been torn down for a McDonalds. Used for study as well as dining, the table had piles of books and often my cat perched on them, watching or sleeping.

[fifi]

When the kids were growing up, dinner was at the table every night, whether at their dad's house or my house. It was just how we were both raised so they were, too. We really didn't think much about it or plan it, it is just what happened. They learned their manners and family traditions that way. No TV. Dinner was for conversation and manners were learned a little at a time, one correction at a time. They really don't remember not knowing how to act at dinner and that served them well later.

Then my son lived with me for a few years when he was in his 20s and finishing school. When he moved in the dinner at the table was reinstated. No TV and let the answering machine answer the phone. Friends and family soon learned not to waste their time calling around dinner time.

Funny thing... I found myself asking my son "May I be excused" if I finished first and had something to do.

[KateW]

Growing up, my parents and I almost always sat at the dining room table all together, all for the same amount of time. Not rushed, with a good amount of conversation. In my later teenage years after my parents got divorced, mom and I would eat in front of the news or a movie more often. When I ate at my dad's though, it was still always at a dining room table.

Now that I live with my fiance, we always eat at the couch in front of the tv because we have never had a dining room or room for a table in any of the places we've lived. We keep wanting to get TV tables but haven't yet. It's sort of a pain.

When we get a house I really hope to start eating at the table again, at least when we have kids, if not before.

[Okbrewer]

We have a breakfast room off the kitchen with a table and that is where my wife and 12 yr old daughter and I eat 90% of our meals. The TV is in the living room and is visible from the breakfast room but it is usually off during meals, unless of course there happens to be an OU football game on at meal time! We have a large kitchen with an island that includes the cooktop. I prepare 99% of our meals and usually place the finished products on the island and we serve ourselves from there. Most of our meal time is spent in conversation, a recap of went on at school or work, and coming events. We all enjoy this time together!

When we have more 'formal' meals or when we have guests, we eat in the dining room which has a much larger table, the TV is not visible from this room. I do like to have some music playing in the background when we eat, but nothing that is too disruptive.

My daughter will eat breakfast on Saturday mornings on the coffee table in front of the TV so as not to miss any of her Yugi-Oh cartoons!

[NVNVGirl]

There's only the two of us and most of the week, dh isn't home. We have a small table at the end of the kitchen and when we are home to eat, it's set with placemats, candles and cloth napkins (I don't even own any paper napkins; they've always bugged me for some reason). We use the dining room which is set to the nines when we have any company. Yeah, I know, I need a life but I enjoy doing tablescapes. When I'm home alone, I usually eat at the kitchen bar and regardless of who's there or where we eat, the television is never on during meals and there's always music....usually jazz, blues or light classical. It's pretty much the same as when I was brought up except I had 4 siblings to bicker with at the table.

[Marlene]

(he is 14, 6'2"

He's 6'2" at 14?! Good grief. What do you feed that boy?

[Marlene]

These days, quite often my son eats in front of the TV during the week. However, I've always been pretty fanatical about manners and he knows how to behave in a restaurant and carry on a conversation with adults at a dinner table. He'll eat with us at the table on the weekends. And he always says please and thank you and may I be excused from the table.

[Mayhaw Man]

(he is 14, 6'2"

He's 6'2" at 14?! Good grief. What do you feed that boy?

Okra-The pod of the Gods

The boy will eat anything, but he prefers sushi of all sorts and Mexican (real Mexican, he knows the difference as we were living there for a while) and soups of all kinds (particularly duck gumbo and Toscana Soup w/andouille instead of italian sweet sausage).