Common Nonsense...

[marinade]

Nope. Its Sauternes. The high acidity is masked by the sweet. It's part of the balence. I found this out the hard way. I was testing for a Poire William Marinade for Breast of Pheaseant . It contained Poire William, pear puree (amoung other ingredients) and I thougth I'd add sauterenes for my acid. Mix the ingredients, added the pheseant zip-locked them and put the bag in the fridge. About 2 hrs later I looked at the meat and it was starting to grey around the edges indicating it was getting cooked. Hey, I thougth it was the pheasent, removed the meat rom the zip-loc and added chicken breast to it. Two hours later the same result. This recipe was on the back batch and had tested set up most of my recipes before this so it wasn't an issue of acid prortion to the bulk of the recipe.

[fresco]

Nope. Its Sauternes. The high acidity is masked by the sweet. It's part of the balence. I found this out the hard way. I was testing for a Poire William Marinade for Breast of Pheaseant . It contained Poire William, pear puree (amoung other ingredients) and I thougth I'd add sauterenes for my acid. Mix the ingredients, added the pheseant zip-locked them and put the bag in the fridge. About 2 hrs later I looked at the meat and it was starting to grey around the edges indicating it was getting cooked. Hey, I thougth it was the pheasent, removed the meat rom the zip-loc and added chicken breast to it. Two hours later the same result. This recipe was on the back batch and had tested set up most of my recipes before this so it wasn't an issue of acid prortion to the bulk of the recipe.

I dunno, but if you read down in this piece, the author claims that Reisling has the highest acidity "in the wine world."

Do you have some authority for sauternes?

http://web.ask.com/redir?bpg=http%3a%2f%2f....html&qte=0&o=0

[Boris_A]

BTW does anyone want to hazard a guess as to which type of wine has the most acidity?

In general, whites have more acidity. But it depends much of the making, especially when the wine didn't undergo malolactic fermentation. The most acid dry wine I know are whites from climatically cool regions: for example dry Sauvignon Blanc from the Loire region (Vouvray). They have so much acidity they can be stored for decades.

But sweet late harvest wines (German Eiswein & Trockenbeereauslese) can have stratospheric acidity levels, but you will not notice because of the high sugar concentration.

An excellent, acid white wine for cooking is Cote de Jura (Jurassiens, excusez moi), because it tastec a bit like sherry (oxidation).

A common nonsense: "closing pores" of meat by applying heat.

This guy This Herve wrote a lot about common myths in cookery. An excellent opportunity to brush up your French, Spain or German.

He says after many experiments he found no evidence supporting the theory of "closed" pores.

Regards

[Wolfert]

On the veggie cooking thing... Adding salt shouldn't affect the pH of the tap water appreciably. I suspect that different cooks might get different results depending upon their tap water. I don't really know how much variation there might be in tap water but I suspect that it could be a lot. And how does softness/hardness affect the results? How about the presence of other trace elements? What, if any, variation of reactions with the chlorophyl in the veggies occur?

Damn. This could get complicated.

poaching artichoke bottoms or cardoons in heavily "parsleyed" water along with olive oil and a pinch of salt, but no lemon juice maintains color and flavor, without that peculiar tinny taste tehy acquire when soaked and rubbed with lemon juice. This I have tested and can absolutely verify works.

[Mudpuppie]

One of the most commonest myths, I think, is about all the things that are supposed to keep you from crying when cutting onions. Matches (lit/unlit), apples, candles, boiling water, etc., etc., etc.

One thing that does work: Chop them as quickly as you can without losing a digit, then cover them with a paper towel. (Plastic wrap or foil would work too.) This keeps the nasties from floating up to your eyes. It works for me.

Edited December 19, 2003 by Mudpuppie (log)

[Dave the Cook]

I'm pretty sure that salt won't make water more alkaline, anyway. At the most it can buffer pH change in alkaline tap water.

could you show us the equation please?

Uh, no (please note, charitably, the "I'm pretty sure" part of my post!) My surmise is based on (believe it or not) an elementary understanding of swimming pool and aquarium chemistry. But as the product of a strong base (NaOH) and a strong acid (HCl), table salt (NaCl) has a pH of 7 (neutral).

The green veggie thing is explained in one or more of the usual suspects' (McGee, Wolke, Parsons, Corriher) books. It has to do with the release of acids as the chlorophyll breaks down. I don't remember the specifics, except that I think that if you leave the pot uncovered, the acids disperse with the steam. If you cover the pot, they condense on the underside of the lid and go back in the water. So leave the lid off, and your veggies will stay green. Maybe someone is close to an appropriate text and can check this out.

[docsconz]

I don't think that salt or lemon makes the veggies change color, its how long yah cook em. I generally steam mine, no salt, no vinegar, very briefly and they turn bright green. If I'm boneheaded and leave the cover on too long, or forget about them, the continue to cook and turn yellow and brown and naturally, get revoltingly well done. I have added lemon lots of times and it never made one iota of differenct to the color.

Perhaps the water you use is relatively hard already. My experience using Culligan treated water is that without salt the veggies do not turn that deep green and then when lemon is applied as with broccoli it turns a yellowish green. When I boil it in salted water, the bright green color is there.

My experience tells me that this is not a myth. Perhaps we can do a wine clip type experiment with liquids of known pH and mineral content and controlled cooking times and temperatures. Any Chemists?

[nessa]

Perhaps the water you use is relatively hard already. My experience using Culligan treated water is that without salt the veggies do not turn that deep green and then when lemon is applied as with broccoli it turns a yellowish green. When I boil it in salted water, the bright green color is there.

My experience tells me that this is not a myth. Perhaps we can do a wine clip type experiment with liquids of known pH and mineral content and controlled cooking times and temperatures. Any Chemists?

I didn't read very carefully. I don't boil veggies. So the water won't play a factor in the color of my veggies. I like to keep my vitamins in the veggies, not drain 'em. However, after steaming, and having nice brilliant green broccoli, I douse it with lemon juice and they stay green, with no color change. Man I love broccoli. Maybe it has to be *in* the water as it cooks?

I wonder if I put lemon juice in the steaming water.....

[jackal10]

Barham and Blumenthal claims its the calcium/magnesium in the water that causes green vegetables to discolour.

Use a low calcium water like Evian to cook your veg.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/...4299611,00.html

[Katherine]

I've found that dousing green vegetables with a lemon juice dressing after cooking does turn them yellowish gray, so I add dressings at the last minute before serving.

This is probably all part of the same thing.

[fresco]

Out of curiosity, why would you boil vegetables rather than steam them?

[Marlene]

One of the most commonest myths, I think, is about all the things that are supposed to keep you from crying when cutting onions. Matches (lit/unlit), apples, candles, boiling water, etc., etc., etc.

One thing that does work: Chop them as quickly as you can without losing a digit, then cover them with a paper towel. (Plastic wrap or foil would work too.) This keeps the nasties from floating up to your eyes. It works for me.

I run the knife and the onion under cold water before chopping. It works for me

[Dave the Cook]

Out of curiosity, why would you boil vegetables rather than steam them?

It's quicker.

[fresco]

But, with, say, broccoli, the difference must be only a couple of minutes. Think steaming produces a better tasting vegetable.

[Dave the Cook]

I wouldn't boil broccoli anyway, since the florets love to hold on to the water. But with tougher or denser vegetables like green beans or carrots, I will choose the method based on what else is going on. I also like Julia Child's technique of simmering in just a bit of water with a knob of butter and a shot of wine or vermouth. If you do it right, the water evaporates just as the veg is done, and you get a nice glazed veggie without a lot of trouble.

There are a number of things that I don't do with water at all: zucchini and asparagus, for instance.

[badthings]

poaching artichoke bottoms or cardoons in heavily "parsleyed" water along with olive oil and a pinch of salt, but no lemon juice maintains color and flavor, without that peculiar tinny taste tehy acquire when soaked and rubbed with lemon juice. This I have tested and can absolutely verify works.

Surely this is because heat de-activates the browning enzymes, just as acid does?

I thought the point of the acidulated water was just to keep them from browning before you have a chance to cook them.

Or are you suggesting a role for the parsley?

[Al_Dente]

Chop them as quickly as you can without losing a digit, then cover them with a paper towel. (Plastic wrap or foil would work too.) This keeps the nasties from floating up to your eyes. It works for me.

I think the emphasis on keeping it from your eyes is a myth about chopping onions. It's really inhaling the fumes that make you cry.

I have checked this out. Chop an onion and then get away from it to allow yourself to recover. Take a deep breath away from the onion and then position you face right over it for as long as you can hold your breath. Do not breath until you can take a few steps away.

I bet your eyes will barely shed a tear if at all.

[Wolfert]

I was told it was the parsley, but I don't know why. I was hoping someone could explain it to me..

[Wolfert]

[quote=

Or are you suggesting a role for the parsley?

[chefreit]

Putting potatoes, apples, onions, rutabagas, turnips, carrots, celery root, parsnips, eggplant, yucca, taro, potate, calabasa, plantain, that are going to be fried golden brown! Or baked au gratin, or roasted-------- or WHATEVER, INTO WATER!

("I'll never put on a life jacket again chief .. /JAWS reference)

This is just adding water to your fryer oil, longer cooking time and bad texture to your final product. I never do it.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

[ExtraMSG]

I think I'll try to test the green vegetable boiling theories this weekend, if I can. I'll try three pots, one steamed, one boiled, and one boiled with heavily salted water. Maybe I'll even take pictures.

One thing that does work: Chop them as quickly as you can without losing a digit, then cover them with a paper towel. (Plastic wrap or foil would work too.) This keeps the nasties from floating up to your eyes. It works for me. 

I run the knife and the onion under cold water before chopping. It works for me

I keep my onions in the refrigerator. I almost never have an issue with tearing. I forget that fact, too, when I cook at other people's houses that keep their onions in a pantry. I end up crying like a baby. That could just be that I'm very emotional about my knife skills, though.

I nominate beans as the source of the greatest number of untested cooking pieties. Russ is of course the expert on this, but salt, soaking and baking soda are three that come to mind. The superiority of earthenware is also often cited, but I would again put this in the works-for-the-wrong-reason category, since it forces you to cook them slowly.

We could test this one on eGullet along with Olestra and see which is worse for the GI tract.

A 1 is received if you had to say "the dog did it" more than once during prime time TV.

A 2 is received if "pull my finger" becomes the joke of the night.

A 3 is received if your wife kicks you out of bed and you're stuck on the couch wishing that you could sleep somewhere else, too.

Edited December 19, 2003 by ExtraMSG (log)

[stevea]

The whole cooking water topic is pretty interesting and I hope to learn more, but on the subject of another cooking "myth"...

What about the practice of slowly drizzling oil into vinegar to make an emulsion when making a vinagrette? I always do it, but Christopher Kimball (America's Test Kitchen) says it's a crock (but maybe not in those words), just dump everything together and whisk.

[fresco]

The whole cooking water topic is pretty interesting and I hope to learn more, but on the subject of another cooking "myth"...

What about the practice of slowly drizzling oil into vinegar to make an emulsion when making a vinagrette?  I always do it, but Christopher Kimball (America's Test Kitchen) says it's a crock (but maybe not in those words), just dump everything together and whisk.

I don't know specifically about this, but the one ingredient no cookbook ever talks about that seems to make all the difference in the world is confidence.

The first few times I tried hollandaise sauce, it was a nightmare, even though I followed instructions to the "t". But after a hiatus of several years, I tried it again, with a fairly casual disregard for technique, and it turned out fine every time. Go figure.

[chefreit]

Out of curiosity, why would you boil vegetables rather than steam them?

Also you get even cooking.

[Pan]

And I'm pretty sure a papaya-based marinade, or, as chinese cooks have been known to employ, a bit of baking soda, would tenderize meat to the point of mush.

Why do you think that? I can tell you the tenderest goat satay I ever had was in a place on the outskirts of Jakarta where the meat was wrapped in papaya skins overnight before cooking, but the meat was nowhere near tenderized to the point of mush!