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Dim sum


Dejah

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So I'm not the only who thinks Maxim's has disgusting pastries.  I"m so glad you validated my same thoughts because I was just recently having an argument with someone about whether or not to bring Maxim's pastries as a hostess gift.  Just because they are the only Chinese bakery in town (since the one in Chinatown closed a few years ago), does not make it the be all-end all of Chinese pastries in Winnipeg.

The last time I was there, I spyed industral cases of margarine in their fridge.  Not only does that offend my purist sensibilities, but I also find it gross that their pastries are tasteless and lard-like.

They're definitely bad. I don't even think their pastries are lard-like (I love pastry made from lard!) but more like edible-oil-product-like. I used to like their roll cakes even though the buttercream was clearly not made with butter. (I've seen the margarine in their front cooler, as well.) But then I discovered a very good roll cake, and now I know Maxim's stuff is bad all around.

For a hostess gift, I would suggest getting one of the Boss Bakery cakes from Sun Wah. They are in the section where they keep the soy milk and fresh rice noodles. They bring them in from Vancouver every week. The mango one is a bit funky (medicinal tasting, maybe), but the coffee and chocolate ones are good. They could use a bit more flavour, but the cakes themselves are tender and moist, and they use real butter for their buttercream. Warning: The cakes arrive on Wednesday (Thursday if there's a long week-end or some other holiday that week) and they've become so popular that 3/4 of them are gone by Thursday. The ones that are left are usually mango and honeydew (which I've not tried). That's quite a feat given that Winnipegers are notoriously cheap and the cakes are comparatively expensive ($5 for a 6 or 8?" roll, $6 for the lemon one that is iced and has almonds).

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Your assessment of edible oil product is bang on. I think the oiliness comes from the margarine, and not the lard I had mentioned earlier. Butter is the fat closest to body temperature, so it doesn't feel like a greasy finish; whereas margarine will leave an oily finish because it melts slower.

I like lard only to the extent that it gives me the flakiness in crusts. I would only use a little, but have butter as my main component in that instance.

Thanks for the tip on Boss cakes, prasantrin.

Edited by cwyc (log)
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PRASANTRIN: I don't make my own puff pastry. I use puff pastry sheets from Pepperidge Farm, in restaurant size boxes. These keep well in the freezer and I just pull out as many sheets as I need. I find they are very easy to work with and not greasy. When I make them, I do up acoupe dozens, freeze individually, then bake as I need them. May not be like the ones you enjoyed in Thailand, but damn! they're yummy :wink:

TRILLIUM: If you can make lobak go, you can make woo to go. Most recipes tell you to stir fry the shredded turnip. I find boiling them makes them more tender. I then add them to the rest of the ingredients (which I DO stir fry before hand). With the woo to, I boil them with the skin on, then peel when cooled and dice them. Then I add them to the rest of the ingredients, mix up my rice flour with water, stir it all together, pour into my pan and steam for an hour. The lobak go is stronger in flavour, while the taro cake is more starchy...both delcious! If you need a recipe, I can copy it here for you.

CWYC: Do you make your own cheung fun? I find when I DO make my own, as opposed to buying them from Sun Wah or Oriental Market, I can't keep up to the family! They devour them as soon as I take them off the steamer.

When you make your lotus leave packets, what "kind" of chicken do you use? Boneless? With bones, cut Chinese style, salty chicken? More chicken than rice?

HERBICIDAL: My Mom used to make hum sui gok for special events... like birthdays. I look forward to those days!

Thanks, folks! You've made my first foray into the site SO ENJOYABLE! :wub:

Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

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the lotus leaf packets with sticky rice, called

naw mi gai (the bigger one) or jen jhur gai (individual sized)

often have chicken sliced chinese style, lap cheung (chinese sausage) as mentioned above.

almost threw in peanuts and stuff, then i realized i was thinking about zhong zi.

Herb aka "herbacidal"

Tom is not my friend.

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Herbicidal,

Zhong zi...in bamboo leaves...I use salted fat pork, mushrooms, peanuts, dried shrimp, onions and sometimes shredded dried scallops. My Mom and I usually make about 150 packets, boil, cool then throw them in the freezer for quick meals.

With the nau mai gai, there should be more chicken than rice? A friend of mine ate them for the first time. I was busy doing something out in the kitchen while he was eating it. I asked him how he liked it...and he complained that the leave was awfully chewy! :laugh:

Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

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Speaking of Lap/Lop? Cheong - Chinese Sausage, I sometimes use them as is, for a Dim Sum dish. I slice them in long thin fingers, about 2 1/2 inches long, and arrange them like spokes in a bamboo steamer. Not in a single layer, but straddled on each other. I steam them till cooked and a little of the fat is released, then serve them with a dip. I usually leave a hole in the center of the steamer in which I put the dipping sauce dish. Almost no preparation time.

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the lotus leaf packets with sticky rice, called

naw mi gai (the bigger one) or jen jhur gai (individual sized)

often have chicken sliced chinese style, lap cheung (chinese sausage) as mentioned above.

almost threw in peanuts and stuff, then i realized i was thinking about zhong zi.

I like lo mai gai with black mushrooms, chicken (with bones) and a little lap cheung, but only if it's the good stuff, not the nasty dyed red stuff that comes sealed in a package.

Dammit you guys, I'm still at work and now I'm really hungry...sigh.

regards,

trillium

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and a little lap cheung, but only if it's the good stuff, not the nasty dyed red stuff that comes sealed in a package.

luckily, i haven't happened upon that yet.

With the nau mai gai, there should be more chicken than rice?

no.

Herb aka "herbacidal"

Tom is not my friend.

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My Mom and I usually make about 150 packets, boil, cool then throw them in the freezer for quick meals.

just the way my aunt used to. except not sure about the freezing part, and she only did somewhere in high double digits.

the ones we eat now are mostly store bought. not the same.

Edited by herbacidal (log)

Herb aka "herbacidal"

Tom is not my friend.

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Sorry but I have to disagree - there is a general order to eating dim sum - but soft rather than hard and fast rules.

Generally you want to eat the lighter more delicate items first - the ha gow/shrimp/seafood/rice flour wrapper dumplings first - then the heavier, but still smaller, meat dumplings - sui mai, etc. - then the larger items - cherng fun, etc. - meatier items - spareribs in black bean garlic sauce, etc. - the fried items - law bok go, etc. - then towards the end the heaviest/most filling items - naw mai gai, the buns, etc. - sweet baked items next - egg custard tarts, etc. - then the fruity dishes - almond dofu with the ubiquitous canned fruit cocktail. After all the dim sum items you might then serve a stir-fried noodle dish - not soup noodles - symbolic - long life, to send your guests away as full as they can possibly be.

And I'm sorry but any restaurant that's telling you to eat the sweet items with the savoury items is just trying to turn the tables fast.

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LOUFOOD,

Thanks for your input :smile: Next time I go to an authentic dim sum restaurant, I'll have to take note of the carts. But, I am usually so keen on eating...JUST BRING 'EM ON!

My guests, (TODAY!) are mostly neophytes with dim sum. I may serve the sui mai first as that's the one I have the most of... :laugh: Then the ha gow as I have only 60 of those made...and so on. I am going to serve chicken congee, and then red bean soup for dessert along with fresh fruit. Didn't have enough energy left to make custard tarts :blink:

I am making naw mai gai in lotus leaves without lap cheung as one of my guests is Malaysian Muslim.

Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

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Sorry but I have to disagree - there is a general order to eating dim sum - but soft rather than hard and fast rules.

Generally you want to eat the lighter more delicate items first

loufood, I quite agree with your assessment of a general eating order to dim sum. I had never conciously given it much thought before, but now that you mention it, that is generally how I dine. It does seem to make sense that one would start with the lighter items, and then move on towards the meatier, saucier items.

But as anyone who frequests a busy dim sum restaurant knows, particularly the crazy ones in Hong Kong and elsewhere, where you are fighting just for a table and sharing it amongst strangers, it is essentially, survival of the fittest. It's not uncommon to be running after the women who push the carts, instead of waiting for them on the off chance they might actually come to your table before its all gone. And then you might end up having to wait another little while before it comes out again. So what most people end up doing is getting what they can get when it arrives. Otherwise, you miss out on it.

There are some finer dining dim sum restaurants where you can order from the menu and it comes out course by course, but that is not generally the case in more common establishments.

It does make sense to get a few of the items (particularly desserts) before its all gone, and then wait till you are ready to consume it. But even then the hot, steamed items will cool off and lose their essence. So, in a perfect world, yes it would be nice to have each of the items come out orderly, but in most fast-paced dim sum houses, you get what you can.

Dejah: I have not tried my hand at making cheung fun yet. In fact, I quite admire your abilities and your ambitiousness. Hope everything turned out well.

Edited by cwyc (log)
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Sorry but I have to disagree - there is a general order to eating dim sum - but soft rather than hard and fast rules.

In theory, you're probably right, but it's an unrealistic hope, unless you are making them yourself or have your own private chef.

In the places with rolling carts (which the places we favor happen to use), the only possible strategy for optimizing your experience is to try and get seated near the kitchen where you can get your food as freshly cooked as possible; you have no control over the order in which the carts come out of the kitchen. In the places around here where you order your dim sum, you are expected to mark your whole checklist before you turn it in, and again you have no control over the order (or the pacing) of the service.

Either way, they're not likely to cut you much slack; you're just one of 50-100 tables.

Dim sum is like life -- you never know what is coming next. :laugh:

Edited by Gary Soup (log)
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In the places with rolling carts (which the places we favor happen to use), the only possible strategy for optimizing your experience is to try and get seated near the kitchen where you can get your food as freshly cooked as possible; you have no control over the order in which the carts come out of the kitchen.

LOL! The one restaurant where you actually want to sit near the kitchen door!

I also grab as grab can, as the carts go by. But I do wait for a sweet till last - especially if the Coconut Bar is chilled.

When doing Dim Sum at home I try to follow the 'lighter first' ----- for instance, not serving Scallion Pancakes at the beginning. But sometimes the cooking method takes precedence.

Which reminds me --- Dejah ---- Was it a buffet or sit down? Did you cook/serve, cook/serve, cook/serve and then sit, if it was a sit-down?

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Good Morning,

jo-mel: puff...puff...puff...it was cook, serve, cook, serve... :wacko:

Two of our guests were unavoidably delayed...so it was a repeat performance 2 hours after we started.

I had steamed some items earlier as I am limited to a 4 burner electric stove. But everything else came together well...giving us a breather between items.

As our friends arrived and mingled, I started the evening with spiced beef or vegetarian cigars made with phyllo pastry, coated with sesame seeds and baked 'til crispy. Not much of a wine person, I did have Portugese mateus in honour of our Portugese friend :laugh:

My table (seats 14 snuggly)was set with dipping sauces, pickled cucumber, chopped cilantro, green onions, chili oil, century eggs and cut pieces of yu tiao, appetizer plates, chopsticks and spoons, and lots of napkins.

By the time we were seated, my double stacker steamer of ha gow was ready. I transferred these to 2 platters. I also served the congee at this time.

The sui mai and meat balls I had put into 10" glass pie plates. This way, I saved all the juices and makes it easier to plop into and take out of the steam trays. The sui mai followed the ha gow. I had blanched the gai lan earlier, placed on a platter. These I zapped in the microwave as I preped the oyster sauce and hot oil as someone suggested. The splatter was impressive! :laugh: This was a welcome item.

The curry chicken puffs were ready from the oven. Crazy, but I love Mexican salsa with these, so I put out bowls of this cold stuff. I had to keep reminding people: Don't fill up on any one thing! Try everything first, then go back again!

Then it was meat balls that "bounce" :laugh: These I served with pieces of romaine lettuce and cilantro. I found the meat balls took longer steaming than other items, because they are pingpong ball size of solid meat. So I cooked them for 15 minutes earlier in the day, cooled then re-steamed for 15 minutes before serving. Didn't affect the texture at all. I also put out the sticky rice in lotus leaves steamed earlier and kept hot in a chafer.

The baos took 10 minutes of re-steaming to warm up and stayed fluffy. I made chicken wings, BBQ ribs and si gup ribs to serve with these. The wings and ribs were in foil and warmed up the same time as the curry puffs. The si gup I kept warm in the slow cooker.

Ho fun with beansprouts and long pieces of green onion finished the list.

Slices of fresh pineapple was a good finish after all that starch and meat.

There was lots of Chinese tea, Guan Yen something...a gift from one of my Taiwanese students.

We didn't get to the red bean soup...just couldn't handle it.

I put thru' one load in my dishwasher before I went to bed. The counters are still covered. Must wake up obedient daughter to help! :laugh:

I love feeding people and watching them enjoy new foods. Made the days of prep. worthwhile...but damn! I hate cleaning up!

Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

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WHEW!!!!!! You deserve a rest!!!

Sounds like you were well organized --- which is the key. And------the order in which you served, seemed to answer Loufood's suggested soft rules.

Did you serve anything in the steamers, themselves?

Do you have one of those butane stoves that you can put on the counter? I have several that I use both in my cooking classes, and when I am doing alot of cooking on my own. It frees up stove burners ---and especially good for some large bulky things like steamers. An electric wok is also good for this.

I've never done the hot oil as was suggested, (except over steamed fish) but I sure will next time I do vegetables, and will make sure everyone hears the 'sizzle'. LOL! It's amazing how a simple vegetable dish can be so welcomed when you are having all those doughy things. Thank goodness for microwaves!!

That tea sounds like Te Guan Yin, or Ti Kuan Yin (pick your transliteration) one of my favorites.

Tell me --- did you eat anything yourself?? I have a hard time eating when I undertake a big meal like yours --- but if there is anything left over, the next day, I pig out!

Your guests must have been impressed. You should take a bow and sit back with a cup of that tea -------after the @#$%$# clean-up, of course!

Thanks for coming back and letting us all enjoy!

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Second load of dishes going now. Mainly pots, pans, platters left to do.

I ate very little while cooking and serving. Like you, I find it hard to eat when I have a large party. Being a good host, anticipating and looking after others' needs is foremost, I guess :smile: I had sui mai, beef balls and congee left over, so that's what we just finished having for lunch.

My counter space was pretty much full...but I have a 2 tiered island with my stove top on one side. This was great for keeping food in chafers. I have seen the butane stoves. Must get one before the next party!

You are right about being organized. I make planning notes, then post a "work-list" right on the fridge close to my stove. Can't trust my memory when there is a crowd

trying to visit with me as I cook!

Didn't serve anything in bamboo steamers. With the quantities needed, it just wasn't practical. I do have a restaurant size steel steamer, but my stove wouldn't allow anything else then. I transfer the food to platters, and many have bamboo motifs...Good substitutes?

Cooking classes?! Tell me more!!!

We have a Chinese cooking class at the local community college. I'd love to be able to do something like that, but the instructor has been teaching the course for several years...entranched :wink: I've had many requests, but I don't want to ruffle any feathers. From what I have heard, he doesn't do alot of authentic. Couldn't do it at home. My family would rebel! :laugh:

Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

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We have a Chinese cooking class at the local community college. I'd love to be able to do something like that, but the instructor has been teaching the course for several years...entranched :wink: I've had many requests, but I don't want to ruffle any feathers. From what I have heard, he doesn't do alot of authentic. Couldn't do it at home. My family would rebel! :laugh:

You could try doing "word of mouth" classes. That is how I got started. I've done classes in my own home and in church/school/woman's clubs kitchens, and believe me --- doing it at home is better!! All that schlepping is a pain in the neck!! One time, I forgot a prepared container of sauce, another time a bottle of soy sauce!

The work involved doing it at home is worth it. I do classes for an Adult School and do it in my own home. Their insurance covers me, and I don't have a time limit. The classes are a certain length of time, of course, but I don't have to rush to be out before the janitor puts the lights out!

It is a lot of work, but when you find interesting people, who really want to learn, it is rewarding. Of course, you still have people who just want a night out, who will never, ever do the dishes on their own, and who only want beef/broccoli. ARGGGHHHH!

You already have the organizational skills, and that is half the battle.

If you have something to offer that is different from the instructor at the Community College, why not give it a try? Especially if you can do something a little more sophisticated than he is doing.

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PAN: si gup (jup) pi gwut = black bean garlic ribs, which I do marinate in soya sauce and cornstarch before steaming. My phonetic translations are terrible. :laugh:

JO-MEL: I understand what you mean about convience of teaching at home...everything you'd need would be right on hand. I wish I had the HomeEc. kitchen I had when I taught high school...8 cooking stations! We did do stir-fry, wontons, etc. In my evening immigrant ESL class, one of the lessons on following instructions was making Jell-o no bake cheesecake. The first time, I forgot the sugar. This term, I forgot BOWLS! :wacko: Luckily, a good friend lived close by...

Next summer ( I hope) I am installing an old commercial gas stove in the backyard. Perhaps then, I can think about doing some classes.

What are some of the dishes you have "taught"? Are your classes for Chinese cooking or a mixture?

Dejah

www.hillmanweb.com

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HomeEc. cooking stations!! How I disliked giving classes in them! No control! It's hard to be everywhere at once. Teen-agers listened to directions, but adults went their own way. I would explain and do a dish from scratch so that all all could see the preparation and procedure ---- then the groups went to their 'station' to do it themselves. I could hear the comments: "Just toss it all in at once - that's the way I do it at home." / "She said NOT to burn the garlic!" / "I just cut it all up, any old way --- it all tastes the same." ARRGGHHHHH!

The interests have changed over the years. At one time people wanted to do Beggar's Chicken, or Tea Smoked Duck or some other dish that required special preparation. But now they want instant food. I do Basic Wok/Stir Fry classes, and Basic Dim Sum every once in a while, but for the most part I try to follow a theme. Just Chinese soups, or fish, or a region, just sauces, interesting vegetables beyond broccoli, noodles, all steamed dishes, a lunch menu, casserole/sandy pots ---- whatever catches my fancy. Some is total hands-on, some is partial hands on. I can do pretty much whatever I want. No more than 8 people and all Chinese cooking.

I've given up the demos at different organizations, and catering. Now it is just Spring and Fall classes for an adult school.

I use my gas stove for things as they cook, but I use my butane stoves at a special round table for the actual cooking -- like stir/fries or deep/fries etc. Without those stoves, I would be lost. I used to have a small propane stove with a quart tank and a loooooong hose. It was very impractical. The tank itself would freeze up, and the whole thing scared me. When the good butane ones came out, it was a God-send! There are different kinds. If you decide to get one, let me know so I can give you some tips.

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