Corporate America - Can it be stopped?

[Janedujour]

How has the american consumer become such a fucking braindead arsehole?

How do we educate our "Santa Fe Baguette" -eating brethren that this is not the way to live!

Why do these people do it?  They are programmed by this gadget to buy all this crap, and to take another four hours of brainwashing the next day! 

There's a great Neil Young song called "Piece of Crap" that I love.

From the movie "Repo Man": As two guys are sitting in their car for a long time waiting, watching the hustle bustle of people going about their day, one turns to the other and says "Ordinary fucking people, I hate 'em."

A classic!

These are the same people that work at the grocery check out and STILL don't recognize half the stuff I buy. Holding up an artichoke, or endive "what's this again?"

(I did get raddichio for the price of red cabbage once though!)

Pork, I feel your pain.

Most people just don't don't give a shit.

There are people who live as if they had blinders on, not wanting to learn, explore, feel, smell, taste, laugh or cry because it's DIFFERENT. Sadly because of these apathetic assholes, our natural resources will soon be destroyed. It's that pig attitude of "I want a green lawn and I don't care if my dog or kid or your kid gets cancer, I'm using my Chemlawn." Or, "I don't care if workers are exploited, I want my Nike's. They don't want make waves. They want to blend in.

We don't.

[Busboy]

Let's keep this to just food:

1. Tom and Jane can afford to shop wherever he/she wants.

2. While in Costco buying 100 rolls of toilet paper, Tom buys a color television, 3 inkjet cartridges, snow tires and a lawnmower. On the way out he thinks about dinner and picks up a gummy fresh bread, prepackaged mozzarella, frozen italian sausages, tasteless tomatoes, a box of pasta (actually a 5 pack), and prepackaged parmigiana cheese.

3. Jane buys the same things at Costco as Tom but stops on the way home at the italian grocery and buys fresh mozzarella, storemade sausage, has a wedge of parmigiana cut from a wheel, a box of pasta and picks up a seeded semolina bread from the Bronx.

Who eats better, Tom or Jane?

That's a pretty bizarre hypothetical. Your point is true regarding our yuppie friends Tom and Jane. However, many, or even most people can't afford to shop wherever they want. Or if they do, it means giving up something else important - a nice pair of sneakers, a night out at the movies, an extra few bucks for the church, whatever. They have to strike a compromise, shopping at Costco so they can do something else with the money they save.

Sure, you can argue that they're "buying groceries at Costco and Walmart...by choice, not as a necessity," and are therefore "lazy," and by your tone, morally suspect. But that's a cheap generalization, and ignores the economic reality most people face.

Edited December 9, 2003 by Busboy (log)

[hjshorter]

Sure, you can argue that they're "buying groceries at Costco and Walmart...by choice, not as a necessity," and are therefore "lazy," and by your tone, morally suspect.  But that's a cheap generalization, and ignores the economic reality most people face.

In my case, it's the choice between buying perfectly fabulous food all the time, and being able to afford to stay home with my kids and cook perfectly adequate, but still nutritious and tasty, food with them.

And janedujour, I'm not sure it follows that we can blame the degradation of the planet on the folks who don't know what endive is. I think your missive above might get the prize for most self-congratulatory post of the day.

Edit for clarity.

Edited December 9, 2003 by hjshorter (log)

[sammy]

That's fair but let's exclude the true economic hardship cases from the argument. There is no doubt that the majority of people buying groceries at Costco and Walmart are doing so by choice, not as a necessity.

for whom is saving money not a concern?

Saving money is a concern to most but it all comes down to choices. If saving money was the be all and end all of all of our lives, we'd all be bicycling to work or taking the bus instead of driving expensive cars and loading it up with gasoline at $2 per gallon (I live in CT). We'd all be eating pasta and rice every day for sustenance and for those who do have the live that way, it is very unfortunate. I think it is sad that anyone has to live that way and truly wish it weren't the case but for most others, there are these choices we make everyday.

No one would be buying Lobel's steaks if all we wanted to do was save money.

So many seem to be looking to point this thread into a class war and I think it should be nothing of the sort for the majority of consumers. For some, yes, I understand that they need to save money any way they can and HAVE a responsibility to but food as economically as feasible. On the other hand, most of the people that I have seen shopping at Costo and Walmart are purchasing items that are easily identifiable as not required for one's sustenance. Things like video games, cd players, digital cameras, etc.

Yes, those things are nice to have but I would personally rather have imported prociutto with fresh mozzarella on crusty bread from my local italian grocery than the crap mozzarella sold at Costco. The problem is that as more people buy the crap mozzarella from Costco to go along with their 64 pack of doritos that they bought to give to their kids for lunch every day, the harder it will be to find good mozzarella, and to me and to others that appreciate good food, that is important. I'm sure carrot sticks are a less expensive snack than Doritos but I'd bet Costco and Walmart sell a lot more Doritos. It has abosolutely nothing to do with class or economic situation. It has everything to do with making a choice and buying what tastes good.

[fresco]

Isn't "what tastes good" often a class decision?

[sammy]

In my case, it's the choice between buying perfectly fabulous food all the time, and being able to afford to stay home with my kids and cook perfectly adequate, but still nutritious and tasty, food with them.

Like I said, it is all about choices and I greatly respect you for the decision you made. I think it is great that you can stay home with your kids.

[sammy]

Isn't "what tastes good" often a class decision?

I don't think so. People can have likes and dislikes but I doubt anyone can prefer prepackaged store bought mozzarella (unless it is buffalo mozzarella imported from italy) over fresh mozzarella.

[MatthewB]

Isn't "what tastes good" often a class decision?

Sounds like you've been reading Pierre Bourdieu, fresco.

[sammy]

They have to strike a compromise, shopping at Costco so they can do something else with the money they save.

Sure, you can argue that they're "buying groceries at Costco and Walmart...by choice, not as a necessity,"

I wonder how many people actually save money shopping at Costco and Walmart. I'd have to think that a large number of people end up buying things while they are there that they normally wouldn't purchase if they just went to a grocery store.

That concept is the genius of Stew Leonards in Norwalk. It is designed with basically one aisle that is somewhat like a maze. The idea is that it is difficult to just run in a and pick up the few things you need in certain aisles. You have to pass by everything (unless you know the secret ins and outs) and end up buying so much more than you usually would at a typical supermarket. I believe that is why they have one of the highest sales per square foot of space in the industry.

[Busboy]

So many seem to be looking to point this thread into a class war and I think it should be nothing of the sort for the majority of consumers. For some, yes, I understand that they need to save money any way they can and HAVE a responsibility to but food as economically as feasible. On the other hand, most of the people that I have seen shopping at Costo and Walmart are purchasing items that are easily identifiable as not required for one's sustenance. Things like video games, cd players, digital cameras, etc.

Maybe they're using the money they save buying cd players at Costco to buy good imported prosciutto.

Personally, I think there are many more places to buy good food now than there were 25 years ago. I have the advantage of swimming in a smaller pond than NYC, so I have a pretty good idea of what could and could not be bought in DC and the close-in suburbs, and there's no question that the quality and variety of ingredients available today is much better than it was when I came to town in 1977.

We've lost a few old friends (anyone remember Larimer's or Suzanne's? Or when Sutton Place was good?). But many remain -- Litteri's, Vace, Da Hua, the butchers at Eastern Market and fishmongers on the wharf. And, in the mean time, asian markets have popped up, local bakery chains have brought excellent baguettes to neighborhoods across town, and Dean and DeLuca and Whole Foods have brought a vast array of quality products into town. These are the good old days, here.

Edited to emphasize the explosion of farmer's markets, as well. I can say with a reasonable amount of confidence that the concept of heirloom tomatoes was unknown in DC before 1992.

Edited December 9, 2003 by Busboy (log)

[hjshorter]

That concept is the genius of Stew Leonards in Norwalk. It is designed with basically one aisle that is somewhat like a maze. The idea is that it is difficult to just run in a and pick up the few things you need in certain aisles. You have to pass by everything (unless you know the secret ins and outs) and end up buying so much more than you usually would at a typical supermarket. I believe that is why they have one of the highest sales per square foot of space in the industry.

Central Market in Austin is laid out like that too, at least it was as of my last visit. You walk through nearly the entire store from entrance to exit. Very clever.

[fresco]

Isn't "what tastes good" often a class decision?

Sounds like you've been reading Pierre Bourdieu, fresco.

I think it might have been one of the Mitford sisters.

[hjshorter]

Isn't "what tastes good" often a class decision?

Sounds like you've been reading Pierre Bourdieu, fresco.

Thanks for the link, Matthew. Very interesting.

[tommy]

That's fair but let's exclude the true economic hardship cases from the argument. There is no doubt that the majority of people buying groceries at Costco and Walmart are doing so by choice, not as a necessity.

for whom is saving money not a concern?

Saving money is a concern to most but it all comes down to choices. If saving money was the be all and end all of all of our lives, we'd all be bicycling to work or taking the bus instead of driving expensive cars and loading it up with gasoline at $2 per gallon (I live in CT). We'd all be eating pasta and rice every day for sustenance and for those who do have the live that way, it is very unfortunate. I

i think, with your hyperbole, that you're ignoring the possibility that there is, in fact, a middle ground.

Edited December 9, 2003 by tommy (log)

[Stigand]

The problem is that as more people buy the crap mozzarella from Costco to go along with their 64 pack of doritos that they bought to give to their kids for lunch every day, the harder it will be to find good mozzarella

I wonder whether this is true.

The rise of discount retailers offering cheap food to those who want it seems to have coincided with the resurgence of farmers' markets selling heirloom and organic ingredients, the unprecedented availability of imported cheeses, meats and other delicacies, and a burgeoning restaurant scene.

I don't think this is a coincidence.

[Janedujour]

And janedujour, I'm not sure it follows that we can blame the degradation of the planet on the folks who don't know what endive is.  I think your missive above might get the prize for most self-congratulatory post of the day.

Edit for clarity.

Ouch.

What I meant was just because it's important to me, it may not be to someone else.

[sammy]

That's fair but let's exclude the true economic hardship cases from the argument. There is no doubt that the majority of people buying groceries at Costco and Walmart are doing so by choice, not as a necessity.

for whom is saving money not a concern?

Saving money is a concern to most but it all comes down to choices. If saving money was the be all and end all of all of our lives, we'd all be bicycling to work or taking the bus instead of driving expensive cars and loading it up with gasoline at $2 per gallon (I live in CT). We'd all be eating pasta and rice every day for sustenance and for those who do have the live that way, it is very unfortunate. I

i think, with your hyperbole, that you're ignoring the possibility that there is, in fact, a middle ground.

I agree, there is a middle ground. In fact, I think it is all about middle ground. I was just responding to your quote which I didn't sense implied any middle ground. Sorry if I misinterpreted.

My wife always says, "everything in moderation."

[tryska]

is quality food truly that expensive?

i don't mean imports mind you, but fresh, clean, unalduterated foods?

i tend ot think not, especially when i compare how much groceries are buying prepackaged crap, and how much they cost if i buy fresh ingredients.

even considering that i buy free-range, organic meats, dairy and eggs, it still winds up being not a whole lot more than if i got the lower quality ingredients.

perfect example, i mentioned someplace else that i bought organic valley lactose reduced milk. it's a whole dollar cheaper than lactaid. minus the hormones and antibiotics.

it takes a little extra work, not much more money, and a lot more education to not blindly buy what marketers want me to, and i think that's what it comes down to.

people don't hold what goes into their bodies at as a high a priority then they probably should. so since they aren't questioning, or valuing what's going inside them, suppliers really need not be concerned.

it always puzzles me tho when i see someone spending hours poring through consumer reports, trying to decide what's the best, highest-value, top rated car or pc or digital camera or whatever, while eating their Mickey Ds supersized number 2 combo with a diet coke.

actually i think it can be boiled down a little more.

people's priorities are a bit screwed up in general (especially post-sexual revolution) and we tend to value status symbols more than we do the more mundane, albeit far more life enhancing day to day stuff. So since we don't, on a whole think about it, we tend to be lemming-like in the choices we make. as long as we're rolling in a phat SUV with dvd player and extra cupholders, i guess it doesn't really matter.

there's a reason there are more depressed people in the US now then i think there ever has been.

Edited December 9, 2003 by tryska (log)

[Janedujour]

Thanks for that post Tryska

[tryska]

*lol* your welcome jane. i've used up all my brainpower for the day.

[hjshorter]

even considering that i buy free-range, organic meats, dairy and eggs, it still winds up being not a whole lot more than if i got the lower quality ingredients.

It adds up when you're buying for four people instead of yourself.

[hjshorter]

as long as we're rolling in a phat SUV with dvd player and extra cupholders, i guess it doesn't really matter.

I'll remember that as I'm rolling along in my phat Ford Taurus station wagon with the cheerios stuck to the back seat.

[tryska]

when i buy i typically am buying for 5 servings at least. mind you i live on ground beef, stew beef, chicken legs, and thin cut pork chops, as well as canned tuna, so it might be skewed a bit, but it still winds up being much more expensive if i bought everything prepackaged.

[tryska]

as long as we're rolling in a phat SUV with dvd player and extra cupholders, i guess it doesn't really matter.

I'll remember that as I'm rolling along in my phat Ford Taurus station wagon with the cheerios stuck to the back seat.

and i think you missed my point - that was sarcasm.

[hjshorter]

as long as we're rolling in a phat SUV with dvd player and extra cupholders, i guess it doesn't really matter.

I'll remember that as I'm rolling along in my phat Ford Taurus station wagon with the cheerios stuck to the back seat.

and i think you missed my point - that was sarcasm.

No, I got it.