Why I never go to Fairway anymore

[Pan]

This happened a couple of years ago, but mention of Fairway on the Deliverance on the Upper East Side? thread prompted the memory. I've avoided mentioning this so far, but here goes:

One time, I walked into Fairway with some bagels I had bought at H&H and looked for some cheap yogurt. Not finding it, I left and was promptly chased after by uniformed types. They demanded a receipt which I didn't have (as it really wasn't common for people to be given or demand receipts for a few bagels there) and then essentially told me they'd beat the crap out of me if I didn't surrender the bagels, at the same time surrounding me and assuming aggressive poses. Not being willing to have fisticuffs over bagels, I surrendered them, disgustedly, and then after a few minutes' reflection, decided to call the police, who explained to me that the uniformed types were presumably store security and must have thought I had stolen the bagels from them (a thought that hadn't occurred to me, strange as that may sound). The two cops behaved very professionally, told off the security and managerial types, and told them to replace the bagels they took. Unfortunately, they replaced good H&H bagels with Fairway bagels that sucked. The cops told me that they had had other complaints of overzealous behavior on the part of Fairway security. I hope that this is no longer a problem, but I've done quite nicely without going to that store since then.

Edited December 6, 2003 by Pan (log)

[robert brown]

Pan, thanks for the story. I think we need to hear such tales as much as possible as everyone just might benefit if the people who own such places hear about these kinds of incidents.

I find Fairway a brutish, souless place. But they sure bang out the food. We still like to go to upstairs to Mitchel London's Fairway Cafe from time to time. In fact, we went there tonight. However, it helps prove the point I once raised in the old Symposium that restaurants only get worse. At the Fairway Cafe there is no more free BYOL. In fact, they don't allow it at all now. The free hummus is gone, replaced by a handful of Nicoise olives. Prices are up noticeably and we think the portions on the ribeye for two have shrunk. I had the onion soup gratinee and a burger, both of which were quite okay even if not the best of breed.

[elyse]

For what it's worth, I won't step foot in Fairway either. Fuck em.

Young prick of a manager said something nasty about me when he thought I wasn't directly behind him.

[anil]

......

Young prick of a manager said something nasty about me when he thought I wasn't directly behind him.

Mujer Bonita - Wash your mouth with soap for using that kinda language

Excusi senorita If I offend the GBGWW

[Fat Guy]

If Fairway's security guards, managers, and Mitchel London himself all got together, tackled me, and beat me with sticks, it wouldn't compare to some of the torment I've endured at the hands of other customers at Fairway. I'd love to take Thomas Hobbes to Fairway -- he'd be like, "See! I told you!"

So, Fairway is unpleasant. I think we can all agree on that. But I keep shopping there, because on product after product Fairway offers far and away the best value-quality combination in the city -- and maybe in the world. If I stop going to Fairway just because shopping there is unpleasant, sure, Fairway loses my business, but I'm the one who has to go to another store and pay more money for inferior stuff.

So I take steps to minimize my suffering at Fairway: I mostly utilize the Harlem branch, which is far more pleasant than the UWS branch. When I need to use the UWS branch, I tend to go at around 8:00am on Sunday, when it seems the entire population of the UWS will be asleep for 2-3 more hours. I try to develop face-recognition with the managers who handle the areas in which I buy the most product. Etc.

[Pan]

If Fairway's security guards, managers, and Mitchel London himself all got together, tackled me, and beat me with sticks, it wouldn't compare to some of the torment I've endured at the hands of other customers at Fairway.

I never experienced anything worse at the hands of fellow customers than a visit to Zabar's the day before Thanksgiving or Christmas. I'll never go there again at such times. You get elbowed and shoved by people who don't apologize. It's absurd!

So you tolerate it, but I think you can understand why I don't. To be treated like a thief, with guards ready to assault me is a perfect reason to boycott a store.

Fairway is far away from my current residence, Murray's has better cheese, and I can get organic produce at other places, including around the corner. But even if it has the best values in New York, I'm not going.

[JosephB]

It'll be interesting to see what happens on the UWS when the giant Whole Foods Market and Cafe open in Time Warner, giving shoppers a major alternative to Fairway. I've only been to a Whole Foods once, so I can'y really speak to what they have to offer. Anyone?

[Fat Guy]

I see Whole Foods as an upscale supermarket with a semi-organic schtick, so I think Whole Foods will mainly challenge the existing upmarket supermarkets like Food Emporium. My guess is that it won't even be a blip on the Fairway radar. Fairway already competes against Citarella (physically adjacent to Fairway), Zabar's (6 blocks away as opposed to something like 15 for Whole Foods), and Gourmet Garage with no problem. And Whole Foods has a different focus: it's not price-driven in the way Fairway is, and Fairway doesn't really pursue the upscale "wholeness" concept except in its organic department. Most important, with all the construction on the UWS, they're going to need a lot more than just that new Whole Foods in order to feed all those people!

How is the existing Whole Foods on 24th Street doing? Has it pulled business away from any particular establishments, or has it mostly created a new niche? Is it pulling people from farther away than the immediate neighborhood?

[JosephB]

If Fairway's security guards, managers, and Mitchel London himself all got together, tackled me, and beat me with sticks, it wouldn't compare to some of the torment I've endured at the hands of other customers at Fairway. I'd love to take Thomas Hobbes to Fairway -- he'd be like, "See! I told you!"

My most "I'll never shop here again experience" at Fairway occurred on a busy pre-holiday afternoon. When I shop at Fairway at peak times (which I always regret) I take a cart, park it in a location central to my needs, and shuttle my groceries to the cart, because there is no way to happily maneuver the cart through the store. Well, on that day a rather desperate shopper, I suppose, decided that the twelve or so items that I had collected were not worthy of a cart. I went to the place where I had strategically parked my cart to deposit more stuff, but the cart was not there. I looked around and found my groceries piled up on top of the red bliss potatoes.

[sammy]

I never experienced anything worse at the hands of fellow customers than a visit to Zabar's the day before Thanksgiving or Christmas. I'll never go there again at such times. You get elbowed and shoved by people who don't apologize. It's absurd!

Maybe it's just a problem with UWS'ers. On another thread, I learned they don't know how to behave in restaurants and now it seems their poor social skills also manifest themselves in food markets. Who new?

Regarding Fairway, I love the Harlem branch and usually use that as my main market for big holiday meals, and I live in Connecticut. As FG says, they have by far the best selection of things at great prices. You may be spoiled in NY but in CT it's difficult to find things like good piquillo peppers, good olive oil (for less than an arm and a leg) great meat and poultry selection and produce. The selection of breads from throuout the city can't be beat. I find the staff in Harlem (as well as the customers) friendly and helpful, even at busy times.

As for Whole Foods, there is one not too far from where I live and while I think the quality is high, the prices of some things are outrageous. It seems to cost about $50 per shopping bag every time I'm there.

[Fat Guy]

I lived on the UWS for the first 18 years of my life, so I can legitimately call myself an UWSer, even though I've lived on the UES for the past 12 years. I think it's safe to say that, just as New Yorkers are on the whole pushier and more assertive than Americans at large, UWSers are on the whole pushier and more assertive than those in many other areas of Manhattan. Even at their most crowded, Vinegar Factory, Eli's, Agata & Valentina, Grace's, and the East Side Citarella never reach the UWS fever pitch of social Darwinism one sees routinely at Fairway and Zabar's. Which is great for me, because with my UWS training I compete in the UES retail environment like a rabbit in Australia.

[slkinsey]

Interestingly, I've never really had a bad experience at Fairway... and I shop there at least twice a week on a regular basis. FWIW, I never, ever use a cart.

Part of the pushing and shoving problems at Fairway and Zabar's, I think, has to do with the fact that they're just way more crowded than the comparable establishments during peak hours (Fairway is a delight during off-hours). I've been in all the usual suspects (Vinegar Factory, Eli's, Agata & Valentina, Grace's, East Side Citarella, Dean & Deluca,West Side Market, etc.) during peak hours, and they just don't compare to Fairway in terms of people-per-square-yard. Nothing in Manhattan comes even close to Fairway the day before Thanksgiving.

[Fat Guy]

Interestingly, I've never really had a bad experience at Fairway...

Obviously you're one of the troublemakers, then!

[slkinsey]

Interestingly, I've never really had a bad experience at Fairway...

Obviously you're one of the troublemakers, then!

For some strange reason, I seem to have a very good instinctive sense of crowd traffic dynamics (probably helped me as a running back). So whereas some people often find themselves at Fairway standing in a spot where every single person coming around a corner bumps into an arm, I am somehow able to understand that no one will bump into me if I stand just 6 inches to the left. I am also able to weave my way through a thick crowd very quickly.

I am constantly amazed at how poor the average person's understanding of crowd traffic dynamics can be. All these people who stop at the top of a crowded stairway to look around; those who run into a subway car, stand directly in the doorway and then bristle when the 15 people behind bump into them on their way in; those who walk onto an escalator and block the left hand side where people are walking up; those who stand in large groups chatting in the middle of a Broadway sidewalk and seem incredulous at the people brushing by and walking through their coversation, etc. I don't think it's because they're stupid (although clearly this is the case with some of them). I think it's because some people look at these situations and automatically sense the way the crowd is flowing, but not these people.

I've thought about this recently because I have friends who are constantly having people bump into them in the grocery store, on the street, in subway stations, etc. whereas it hardly ever happens to me.

[elyse]

Excusi senorita If I offend the GBGWW

What did you call me?

[JosephB]

I am constantly amazed at how poor the average person's understanding of crowd traffic dynamics can be. All these people who stop at the top of a crowded stairway to look around; those who run into a subway car, stand directly in the doorway and then bristle when the 15 people behind bump into them on their way in; those who walk onto an escalator and block the left hand side where people are walking up; those who stand in large groups chatting in the middle of a Broadway sidewalk and seem incredulous at the people brushing by and walking through their coversation, etc. I don't think it's because they're stupid (although clearly this is the case with some of them). I think it's because some people look at these situations and automatically sense the way the crowd is flowing, but not these people.

I've thought about this recently because I have friends who are constantly having people bump into them in the grocery store, on the street, in subway stations, etc. whereas it hardly ever happens to me.

I know what you mean. Just reading about it is enough to drive me mad. My wife thinks I'm way too pedestrian crowd and traffic conscious. However, if more people were the same way, moving about the City would be more pleasant for everyone.

[elyse]

I want to add that I actually had a pretty friendly relationship with this manager for a few years before this incident.

The customers never bothered me there. I would always get there at non peak times.

And Zabar's is pretty empty on Christmas day.

[MHesse]

I also can get overly angry at 'below normal traffic dynamic skilled people', though I have never referred to them by that name before. I think they honestly believe the universe ceases to exist beyond the range of their peripheral vision. Why else would someone stop at the top of a flight of subway stairs or worse, just off an escalator?

Fairway is worse than most spaces though. A significant portion of the shoppers have had previous bad experiences and arive and shop with a bad attitude. This is compounded by families with stollers, elderly with walkers, Fairway employees moving food or carts, among others. We still shop there regular for good selection and prices, and skilled checkers.

It seems that more NYers in general are walking around with their elbows out waiting for a chance to use them. Perhaps one should need to earn a 'pedestrian license' similar to a drivers license before being allowed on the streets.

[tommy]

I think they honestly believe the universe ceases to exist beyond the range of their peripheral vision. Why else would someone stop at the top of a flight of subway stairs or worse, just off an escalator?

i don't think it's a lack of consideration as much as it is a lack of understanding. i know some very thoughtful and wonderful and considerate people who don't understand crowd dynamics.

[mikeyrad]

Yes, the Fairway on Broadway is crowded, shoppers and staff are rude, blah, blah, blah... It's a quintessential New York experience. I love it!

As an Upper East Sider, I so long for a Fairway on our side of town. Give me their great selection and reasonable prices. As a matter of fact, I'd love to see Eli's fold and a Fairway occupy either the 3rd Ave or the 91st and York space.

[Pan]

Oh, I forgot to comment on Whole Foods. Once upon a time, I used to like the Whole Foods at 89 and Broadway. That was before management changed. As of the last times I shopped there a few years ago, it was mediocre and expensive. I just don't think that store is all that at all.

[Cleo]

I remember when I first moved to the UWS (9 years ago--from the UES), and I started going to Fairway, I always felt like a deer caught in the headlights. (This was long before they expanded into the D'agostino space that was next door.) It just seemed so overwhelming.

But once I figured out the system, what I quickly learned was that you just have to plan your visits. I go there several times a week to pick up 2 or 3 fresh items, but for major shopping, I go early on Saturday or Sunday mornings (before 11:00 it's usually still pretty civilized, and I usually don't go there on Monday evenings right after work. For anyone who would even consider going in there (or Citarella or Zabar) on the day before a big holiday, that's just plain crazy.

And sometimes, when I get really lazy, and I just run into the A&P that's right across the street from me on West End, when buying produce I always regret it. It just can't compare--price, selection or quality-wise.

My husband wants to move downtown. Although I love the UWS, I'd be willing to move, but I always think about how much I would miss Fairway.

[bourdain]

Tips for shopping at Fairway (or Zabars Xmas week):

Wear visibly heavy footwear--something intimidating like combat boots--worn outside the pants. Seeing you, others with lesser footwear will instinctively shrink back to avoid having their feet mangled..

Wear old, preferably dirty clothes. It's a good idea to look like you might smell bad.

Adopt a deranged, distracted look--an expression of "I might snap at any minute--or possibly soil myself" .

Bark, growl or make inappropriate, angry remarks from time to time.

Dark sunglasses are a nice addition. The idea is to make others think you don't see them and might blunder into them at any second.

Walkman headphones (with no music playing) give you yet another edge. You can hear them (though they don't know it) and they'll think you're too lost in thrash metal to hear any screams of pain as you careen down the aisle with your cart.

Disturbing props can be your ticket to the express line: A headless doll held to your chest, a sock puppet, scuba mask or a garland of unwrapped condoms will make everyone--from other customers up to the manager want to get you through the system as quickly as possible.

[robert40]

Mr Bourdain,

Now with talent like that why in the earth did you ever start cooking?

[beans]

Tips for shopping at Fairway (or Zabars Xmas week):

Wear visibly heavy footwear--something intimidating like combat boots--worn outside the pants. Seeing you, others with lesser footwear will instinctively shrink back to avoid having their feet mangled..

Wear old, preferably dirty clothes. It's a good idea to look like you might smell bad.

Adopt a deranged, distracted look--an expression of "I might snap at any minute--or possibly soil myself" .

Bark, growl or make inappropriate, angry remarks from time to time.

Dark sunglasses are a nice addition. The idea is to make others think you don't see them and might blunder into them at any second.

Walkman headphones (with no music playing) give you yet another edge. You can hear them (though they don't know it) and they'll think you're too lost in thrash metal to hear any screams of pain as you careen down the aisle with your cart.

Disturbing props can be your ticket to the express line: A headless doll held to your chest, a sock puppet, scuba mask or a garland of unwrapped condoms will make everyone--from other customers up to the manager want to get you through the system as quickly as possible.