GOP to use Cruise Ship for NYC Convention

[Fat Guy]

The system for cruise ship food service isn't all that different from the way a middle-market restaurant like TGI Friday's gets its product. The distribution system guarantees a baseline level of quality and good value to the bulk purchaser, but it also rules out a lot of the more artisanal and fragile product. Although, in Vancouver, I spoke to one local organic farmer who said the cruise lines are some of his best customers and would buy 100% of his product if he would allocate it all to them instead of selling most to local restaurants and retailers.

[Al_Dente]

I'm curious about what they'll be eating aboard ship. I bet a lot of prime rib and about a ton or two of U16 shrimp.

I'd like to see "crow" on the menu.

Amen to that.

[woodburner]

I have a question.

Who is responsible for food inspections, such as the one's any nyc restaraunt would have to periodically undergo on this type of flotilla?

If the cruise ship has the responsibilty, they're current track record for any type of cleanliness control, could be equaled to child labor law abuse in a few forigen countries.

woodburner

[Fat Guy]

My understanding is that the CDC works with the cruise industry on vessel inspection.

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/

However, I think what you'll see, if the GOP goes ahead with the ship plan, is a lot of posturing by state officials to get on the ship and regulate activity there. They may very well have to sail the ship out a few miles before they can really get down to partying.

[docsconz]

The issue, as I understand it, is that most of these cruise lines are fanatical about sanitation (when you board a ship these days you need to apply a hand sanitizer and they have a crewman stationed there to make sure you do it) far beyond the normal standards that a local catering operation might use.

I have to laugh about the hand sanitizer on boarding. That is all well and good, but what about the people carrying germs up their noses or in their GI tracts. Now, I happen to think hand sanitizers are a good thing, but requiringit upon boarding does absolutely nothing but give the impression that they are concerned about sanitation. I guess that is better than giving the impression that they are not concerned.

[slkinsey]

Er... uh... doesn't just about everyone carry germs in their GI tract?

[NewYorkTexan]

The cruise line approached both parties and is currently is discussions with both parties for their conventions. According to that NY Times article, the discussions with the Republican party are more advanced, but they are also in talks to have a cruise ship based in Boston for the democratic convention.

I think it is a dumb idea, but like so many other areas of politics, stupidity is not limited to just one party.

[docsconz]

Er... uh... doesn't just about everyone carry germs in their GI tract?

Obviuosly, but the question is what germs. "Sanitizing" a peson's hands on boarding a ship only takes care of the issue for that moment. If the person is inherently unsanitary bad germs will be passed along regardless of the initial "sanitizing" since it is so limited.

[Fat Guy]

I have no idea about the science, but I can tell you that hand sanitizers at entry/exist points are common not only on cruise ships but also in many industrial settings and other controlled environments. I'm pretty sure the CDC has studied the matter, recommended this procedure, and takes the position that hand-sanitizing is the most effective simple procedure available for reducing the spread of germs.

[docsconz]

Industrial settings may be one thing where people come in and out and have limited contact. I'm not saying hand sanitizers aren't good. I often carry a bottle of Purell with me and use hand sanitizers all the time in the OR. My point is if that is the only time it is pressed into use it will be of extremely limited utility. If someone has nasal contamination of a bad germ and has a runny nose, that onetime decontamination isn't going to mean much. Same for GI contamination for someone without good hygiene skills. It practically amounts to a visible demonstration of concern but nothing more since these people are going to be in extended contact in fairly tight quarters.

[Bux]

To those employed locally in the hotels and restaurants in Manhattan, or those who have financial investments in those places, it may be an economic blow. To those who own or work on the ship, it may be an economic boon. The money will be spent but it seems a missed opportunity for the party to show what it can do to restore the post 9/11 economy.

I think the posts about the quality of food on board cruises misses the mark. Most of those attending the convention will not care much about food quality. I don't mean to put down Republican tastes, or even the taste of politicians in general, but the fact is that most conventioneers do not make a beeline for Daniel, AD/NY, le Bernardin, or even Blue Hill or WD-50. Those few really interested in that sort of food will make a point of getting there. Most restaurants in NY serve food that can't be that much more boring that what's on board. I offer the popularity of Olive Garden and other mediocre chains that have discovered NYC is good business for them.

[Bux]

If someone has nasal contamination of a bad germ and has a runny nose, that onetime decontamination isn't going to mean much. Same for GI contamination for someone without good hygiene skills. It practically amounts to a visible demonstration of concern but nothing more since these people are going to be in extended contact in fairly tight quarters.

This has all the makings of a second rate thriller. Wait, I think I've already seen the movie.

[phaelon56]

I offer the popularity of Olive Garden and other mediocre chains that have discovered NYC is good business for them.

Case in point _ I was in midtown a few weeks ago on a Friday night. There's a new Red Lobster restaurant in Times Square that had a huge line waiting for tables. When I came down the escalator from the movies at AMC25 on 42nd Street the was an even larger line waiting to get into the Applebee's on the second floor.

Just curious.... how was this (the food and drink) handled at previous conventions in NYC when they occured? Was there ever a central location where such things are catered or did the delegates in fact just go out on their own throughout town? Also, I think the fact that the average delegate would not be heading to le Bernadin, Daniel, Nobu etc is hardly the point - NY is chock full of great small restaurants that are independently owned and could use the extra business. That said, I wouldn't be surprised to find that the cruise ship companies are the ones who initiated the entire idea - competition continues to get tougher for them and their marketing efforts keep developing a longer reach.

[bloviatrix]

New York Magazine has an article about Bill Harris, the guy responsible for orchestrating the convention.

So what does he have in mind? For one thing, Harris wants to stage events at high-profile New York City landmarks.....

Harris wants the GOP to venture into the outer boroughs. He’s eyeing Flushing Meadows Park in Queens as a possible venue, and is exploring events in the city’s diverse ethnic neighborhoods. The idea is that the sight of Republicans mingling with New Yorkers of all hues will project an image of a new, inclusive GOP to a national audience.

“I fully expect to have events all around New York,” Harris says. “It’s an opportunity to show the country, and the world, what the Republican Party is all about.”

Nowhere is there mention of the boat.

[SWoodyWhite]

To those just entering the fray, here is a synopsis of the story thus far:

The House majority leader, Tom DeLay, plans to use the luxury cruise liner Norwegian Dawn as a floating entertainment center for Republican members of Congress and their guests at the upcoming GOP convention in New York city.

This is a far cry from AB's original post, which suggests that the entire convention contingent will be on board ship. Having been to a prior convention, I can guarantee that the conventioneers will be spread throughout the city.

Come to think of it, if we can keep the Congressmen and their guests confined to the ship, it might make the city a safer place for everyone else! (And yes, I'm a Republican and making that joke!)

Edited December 2, 2003 by SWoodyWhite (log)

[ExtraMSG]

I thought he was just implying a bunch of fat cats and premier donors and delegates would be on the ship. Hmm. I just looked up figures and according to CNN there were 45,000 attendees to the convention in 2000. I really doubt they'll all be on one ship in 2004.

[herbacidal]

Just curious.... how was this (the food and drink) handled at previous conventions in NYC when they occured? Was there ever a central location where such things are catered or did the delegates in fact just go out on their own throughout town? .

in 2000, as i recall, most of the events were in central philadelphia area.

i remember one at 5th and vine (caviar assouline), rittenhouse square (art gallery since closed), and drexel u campus (armory).

can't recall if there were any events at restaurants. i imagine there were, but i remember most of the ones i can think of were catered. all the above were catered by my firm at the time.

[Fat Guy]

Just curious....  how was this (the food and drink) handled at previous conventions in NYC when they occured?

There are always going to be a variety of arrangements and venues for a prolonged and widespread event of this nature (hotel banquets, private parties at restaurants, catered events in public spaces, etc.), but the most unique thing they came up with for the 1992 Democratic convention in New York was the "Restaurant Week" concept. At the urging of Tim Zagat and Joe Baum, the NY CVB arranged for 100 of the city's best retaurants to offer three-course lunches for $19.92. From NYCVisit.com:

Restaurant Week began as a hospitality initiative in 1992 to welcome delegates to the Democratic National Convention. The program featured 100 of the city’s top restaurants serving three-course, prix-fixe lunch menus for just $19.92. The cost of the value priced menus has risen only one cent each year with thousands of customers partaking.

"In 1992, public perception of New York City was that it was expensive and unfriendly. Restaurant Week was created as a way of showing off the best of New York, demonstrating that we welcome visitors with open arms and that it’s still possible to find great values here," said Tim Zagat, founder and publisher of Zagat Survey and Restaurant Week cofounder, along with the late Joe Baum.

The minor scandal in all this was that New Yorkers, upon getting wind of the Restaurant Week promotion, secured many of the best reservations for themselves within a day or two of the initiative being announced. The delegates never stood a chance competing against the home team for tables.

[KatieLoeb]

Just curious....  how was this (the food and drink) handled at previous conventions in NYC when they occured? Was there ever a central location where such things are catered or did the delegates in fact just go out on their own throughout town?  .

in 2000, as i recall, most of the events were in central philadelphia area.

i remember one at 5th and vine (caviar assouline), rittenhouse square (art gallery since closed), and drexel u campus (armory).

can't recall if there were any events at restaurants. i imagine there were, but i remember most of the ones i can think of were catered. all the above were catered by my firm at the time.

There were events all over and I'm told they drank us dry of scotch that week . I still have two very overpriced bottles of S.S. Politician scotch purchased for the convention sitting in inventory that I fear will outlive me and everyone I know.

A friend of mine who is an extremely well connected event planner made arrangements to rent the elephant that was in the parade up Walnut Street that kicked off the convention. When I need ANYTHING I can't find on my own I call this guy. He sits at the hub of the universe. He knows where to rent a f***ing elephant, ferchrissake!

[fresco]

The NY Times weighs in against the cruise ship idea (no surprise) but seems to be suggesting that it is no more than a proposal at this stage:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/02/opinion/...&partner=GOOGLE

[bilrus]

Er... uh... doesn't just about everyone carry germs in their GI tract?

Obviuosly, but the question is what germs. "Sanitizing" a peson's hands on boarding a ship only takes care of the issue for that moment. If the person is inherently unsanitary bad germs will be passed along regardless of the initial "sanitizing" since it is so limited.

I'm not sure about the specifics, but in the Democratic Party labor union concerns are pretty high. If the cruise ship isn't unionized they will have a hard time getting much support from Democaratic legislators and organizations.

Most hotels are for the most part union shops.

[Busboy]

Just curious....  how was this (the food and drink) handled at previous conventions in NYC when they occured?

There are always going to be a variety of arrangements and venues for a prolonged and widespread event of this nature (hotel banquets, private parties at restaurants, catered events in public spaces, etc.), but the most unique thing they came up with for the 1992 Democratic convention in New York was the "Restaurant Week" concept. At the urging of Tim Zagat and Joe Baum, the NY CVB arranged for 100 of the city's best retaurants to offer three-course lunches for $19.92. From NYCVisit.com:

Restaurant Week began as a hospitality initiative in 1992 to welcome delegates to the Democratic National Convention. The program featured 100 of the city’s top restaurants serving three-course, prix-fixe lunch menus for just $19.92. The cost of the value priced menus has risen only one cent each year with thousands of customers partaking.

"In 1992, public perception of New York City was that it was expensive and unfriendly. Restaurant Week was created as a way of showing off the best of New York, demonstrating that we welcome visitors with open arms and that it’s still possible to find great values here," said Tim Zagat, founder and publisher of Zagat Survey and Restaurant Week cofounder, along with the late Joe Baum.

The minor scandal in all this was that New Yorkers, upon getting wind of the Restaurant Week promotion, secured many of the best reservations for themselves within a day or two of the initiative being announced. The delegates never stood a chance competing against the home team for tables.

My recollection from attending the 1992 Dem convention convention (and 1988 in Atlanta) is that the major beneficiaries of the convention are the bars closest to or in the delegate hotels. Like conventioneers everywhere, these folks are mostly interested in having a good time and seeing old friends, not in seeking out the finest NYT 4-stars. Also look for a lot of action in obvious tourist places like Little Italy, Chinatown and maybe that deli where Meg Ryan faked the orgasm.

On top of that will be layered a bunch of activities geared to targeted subgroups -- big donors, African Americans, labor (or the GOP equivalent thereof) which will likely take place in swanker locations. I remember Tatou and something in the basement of the Whitney from 1992. Expect the Rainbow Room to be booked.

Regional theme bars are popular for takeover events -- the Texas folks take over a barbecue place for a night, the West Virginians I was with in 1992 took over a C&W bar.

An finally, there is that thin layer of swells, sophistos, media titans and monied gourmands who don't get to The City that often and want to take advantage of it --or who do and want to throw their weight around. They are already calling Daniel for reservations. And book now (I'd expect) if you want to eat at Lugar's, Smith and Wollensky or any other steakhouse that week.

For the record, in 1992 I worked until midnight most nights and spent the hours until closing staring at the cat-suited waitresses in the Whiskey Bar, and then cajoled a bunch of friends into a night at Montrachet the day the convention broke up.

I think they'll make a difference, even in NYC (they overwhelmed Atlanta).

[docsconz]

Er... uh... doesn't just about everyone carry germs in their GI tract?

Obviuosly, but the question is what germs. "Sanitizing" a peson's hands on boarding a ship only takes care of the issue for that moment. If the person is inherently unsanitary bad germs will be passed along regardless of the initial "sanitizing" since it is so limited.

I'm not sure about the specifics, but in the Democratic Party labor union concerns are pretty high. If the cruise ship isn't unionized they will have a hard time getting much support from Democaratic legislators and organizations.

Most hotels are for the most part union shops.

Bill,

This is a republican convention not democrat. In any case, what does that have to do with sanitizing?

[slkinsey]

The House majority leader, Tom DeLay, plans to use the luxury cruise liner Norwegian Dawn as a floating entertainment center for Republican members of Congress and their guests at the upcoming GOP convention in New York city.

This is a far cry from AB's original post, which suggests that the entire convention contingent will be on board ship. Having been to a prior convention, I can guarantee that the conventioneers will be spread throughout the city.

Yea, obviously they can't fit all the conventioneers on this ship. I didn't infer that from AB's post, but I can see how someone might.

That said, it does seem that the use of such a ship could potentially take a lot of money out of NYC restaurants and bars (although one wonders whether the Republican members of Congress will really be boozing it up like "rank and file" conventioneers might). To me the important thing is this:

The general feeling seems to be that DeLay's proposal has the effect of taking revenues out of a struggling NYC restaurant/bar market at the same time the GOP seeks to build political capital on the memory of 9/11.

There is little doubt that the proposed use of the cruise ship will take some dollars out of the NYC economy, but the real economic impact I think we have to say is unknown and unknowable at this point. More powerful is the symbolic message conveyed by such an arrangement. Given the political motivation behind holding the convention in the city of "ground zero," one would reasonably expect any such organization to do everything possible to bring convention dollars into the NYC economy. That, to my mind, is what makes this such a bad move. Had the GOP held a convention in NYC in the early 90s and decided to use a cruise ship... still not optimal for NYC businesses, but probably not such a big deal. The same would hold true, I think, were the upcoming convention were being held in, say, Houston.

It might be interesting to think about the real potential economic impact on City businesses.

[JosephB]

There is little doubt that the proposed use of the cruise ship will take some dollars out of the NYC economy, but the real economic impact I think we have to say is unknown and unknowable at this point.

This business about what is unknown or unknowable, etc, has been dealt with extensively by the big cheese in the Pentagon. BBC: Rumsfeld wins award for quote